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Should the UK remain a member of the EU


Anny Road
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317 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the UK remain a member of the EU

    • Yes
      259
    • No
      58


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4 minutes ago, TK421 said:

There will be no appetite for revoking Article 50.  I don't see it as an option.  

 

You're contradicting yourself now. "If they reject an extension, but we get an extension".  

No, they can reject an extension for us to renegotiate and then we have the option to get an extension for something they do agree to, like a referendum. We can ask for an extension multiple times. 

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3 minutes ago, Hank Moody said:

No, they can reject an extension for us to renegotiate and then we have the option to get an extension for something they do agree to, like a referendum. We can ask for an extension multiple times. 

The problem with that is that the clock is ticking and we only have a couple of weeks left.  

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8 minutes ago, Mudface said:

True, but the instigator of all this is May herself. She could have tried to build a cross party consensus on what Brexit actually meant, have it planned out and then invoke Article 50 and proceed in an orderly fashion. Doing that she could have bypassed the ERG and got Labour on side.

 

But she decided to play to the gallery and be 'strong and stable', called a snap election to try and 'crush the saboteurs' which she completely fucked up, then excluded everyone to the point where successive Brexit secretaries were resigning because they couldn't go along with her plans. She hasn't managed to bring her own cabinet together, never mind her party, the House or the country because she is an incompetent, weird autocrat with no capacity for compromise- exactly the sort of person you don't want negotiating something as complicated as this against an entity like the EU who hold all the cards. 

 

I can only agree with that. I said after the first vote she should resign and there should be a snap election. But she seems to be a great believer in the attrition approach. If she gets her deal eventually, and I think this is still a realistic possibility because it's essentially a semi hard Brexit with a backstop, she may be proven right. In that the approach ultimately worked.

Or she may go down in history as the woman who broke Britain.

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11 minutes ago, TK421 said:

The problem with that is that the clock is ticking and we only have a couple of weeks left.  

Indeed. That's why I think article 50 revocation might be the only option if they don't extend. I think they will need to accept the extension. Here's how I think it will play out, with possibilities added for the shit that's hard to judge.

 

Step 1: May's deal vote - Rejected

Step 2: No deal vote - likely to be rejected.

Step 3: Vote on Extension - likely to pass

Step 4: Come up with a reason for an extension - unknown if they'll agree or how long it will be.

 - Option 1: They agree to an extension to try to get another May deal. Waste of time, go back to step 3. 

 - Option 2: They reject an extension for this and we either

    - a) Revoke A50 (possible) 

    - b) Ignore Parliament and leave with a no deal (unlikely)

    - c) Go back for another crack at an extension for something like a referendum (possible)

 

That's the way I see it. I think we will either end up with a referendum or another crack at May's deal. 

 

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12 minutes ago, Hank Moody said:

Indeed. That's why I think article 50 revocation might be the only option if they don't extend. I think they will need to accept the extension. Here's how I think it will play out, with possibilities added for the shit that's hard to judge.

 

Step 1: May's deal vote - Rejected

Step 2: No deal vote - likely to be rejected.

Step 3: Vote on Extension - likely to pass

Step 4: Come up with a reason for an extension - unknown if they'll agree or how long it will be.

 - Option 1: They agree to an extension to try to get another May deal. Waste of time, go back to step 3. 

 - Option 2: They reject an extension for this and we either

    - a) Revoke A50 (possible) 

    - b) Ignore Parliament and leave with a no deal (unlikely)

    - c) Go back for another crack at an extension for something like a referendum (possible)

 

That's the way I see it. I think we will either end up with a referendum or another crack at May's deal. 

 

Theresa May will be history if she makes the slightest of hints about revoking Article 50.  Does she seem like the type of person to willingly hijack her own position?  I just don't see it being an option.  It would lead to riots, in my opinion.

 

It's not a matter of ignoring Parliament, as such.  It's purely a matter of following the procedure set out in Article 50.  I think the best we can hope for is a three month extension, because it is not in the EU's interests to extend matters beyond that.  And it only takes one of the member states, let's call them Spain, to tell us to fuck off because the extension needs unanimous approval from all member states. 

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Cancel the whole thing.

 

Half the country will be pissed off, but they will whatever happens.

 

What about democracy?  You vote governments in to make these tough decisions, not pass the buck to the public when it's a tough decision.  David Cameron deserves the most stick for starting all this and leaving it to someone else to sort out. I'm very against referendums!

 

Theresa May is in a thankless position whatever she does & that was always the case with such a divisive issue.

 

I don't like her, I don't like Tories (I don't like any of the parties), but I don't think anyone would have had a magical solution to Brexit which would be popular.

 

Corbyn has been pathetic just using this to get in power. 

 

Everyone is coming out of this looking bad currently - The government & the opposition, even the parties are divided.

 

There's an argument to have another referendum & to be fair a lot has happened in the last two years, it's fair to see if the public have changed their mind on the issue (I know I have).  

 

But another referendum doesn't sit right with me, as I don't think the public are educated or informed enough to make such a big decision.  As John Barnes was saying on Question Time.  The Government are voted in to make tough calls - they should be doing it with all the supposed expertise & information.  So I'm like Alan Partridge, I don't trust (like) the general public making these massive decisions.

 

Therefore my solution would be to just cancel Brexit.  The whole inertia is crippling the U.K. & that's what needed changing more than anything.  More inactivity could be disastrous.

 

Cancel Brexit, the half that are unhappy - suck it up! 

 

But let's move on & look forward.

 

Or we could wait longer, have more inertia, waste more time, energy & money (given leaving is proving to be expensive) & then still half the country will be unhappy.

 

Cancel Brexit - won't happen, but I think it should do!       

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1 hour ago, LF:D said:

 

There's an argument to have another referendum & to be fair a lot has happened in the last two years, it's fair to see if the public have changed their mind on the issue (I know I have).  

 

  

I've spoken to a lot of people that voted remain, who would vote to leave if there's another referendum. Likewise a lot of people disillusioned about voting in future as it's pointless. It isn't just leave that have had a change of heart.

 

Another vote wouldn't really help, if it went with leave we're back in the same position as now. If it swung to remain then half the country wouldn't just feel pissed, they'd rightly feel betrayed by democracy. Right now remainers might be pissed because they lost a democratic vote, imagine how you (as a remainer) would feel if you had won that vote and still we left.

 

Cameron the pig fucking yellow bellied shit cunt should never have offered the public the right to choose if it was likely to lead to wars and starvation, that he spent millions of tax payers cash with government propaganda leaflets and scare tactics and still lost shows you how fucked up it all is.

 

Both sides of the argument failed the people, lies from everywhere. I only hope this further opens the eyes of the public to how broken our political system is and how only publicly executing them all will solve it.  and why we're doomed for decades because of their antics. 

 

 

 

 

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Over two years of political debate we've wasted on this. All the stuff that needs fixing in the UK has nothing to do with the EU and yet it's been thrust into the limelight whilst austerity continues to wreak havoc. Can't be arsed with any of it, clear Brexit off the table, call a general election and start again.

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2 minutes ago, Hank Moody said:

People who wanted to remain will now vote leave? Pull the other one. 

I swear on whatever people swear on now, just because you don't believe something doesn't mean it isn't true. 

I doubt that it's indicative of a general consensus as most people are (thanks to the antics of our elected representatives) mostly pissed off with the whole thing now. Which is I believe the actual point of all the antics. 

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1 hour ago, Strontium Dog said:

The only way out I can see is a referendum. I can't see Brexit being cancelled without one, much as I would like it to be.

I'm inclined to agree. Either that or an election which gives someone a clear majority.

 

In theory we have to give the EU a reason for the extension and as others have said they are probably angling for us to say a second referendum. Either that or a brand new deal, but that would need May to give in to Labour demands and for her to whip her party to support it.

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12 minutes ago, Captain Marvel said:

I swear on whatever people swear on now, just because you don't believe something doesn't mean it isn't true. 

I doubt that it's indicative of a general consensus as most people are (thanks to the antics of our elected representatives) mostly pissed off with the whole thing now. Which is I believe the actual point of all the antics. 

No, it’s not my disbelief that makes it true. Nor does anecdotal evidence, as you suggest. The idea that this farce plus more info will mean those who wanted to remain now want to leave is... unlikely

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Just now, Hank Moody said:

No, it’s not my disbelief that makes it true. Nor does anecdotal evidence, as you suggest. The idea that this farce plus more info will mean those who wanted to remain now want to leave is... unlikely

And yet it is what people have actually said. Some people have seen the ugly face of the EU, but I'll concede it's probably not going to be a lot of people. Again, most are totally pissed off with it all and some happy to sit in shit.

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5 minutes ago, Captain Marvel said:

And yet it is what people have actually said. Some people have seen the ugly face of the EU, but I'll concede it's probably not going to be a lot of people. Again, most are totally pissed off with it all and some happy to sit in shit.

People you spoke to? To the nearest two people, how many?

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5 minutes ago, Captain Marvel said:

And yet it is what people have actually said. Some people have seen the ugly face of the EU, but I'll concede it's probably not going to be a lot of people. Again, most are totally pissed off with it all and some happy to sit in shit.

What have the EU done wrong? Even May herself said yesterday the blame doesn't lie with EU.

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Do a search for the “fbpe” hashtag on twitter and tell me you wouldn’t vote leave just to spite these people. And, as anny said, that cunt outside Westminster with the fucking loudspeaker 

 

 

and this guy 

 

 

 

And these cunts

 

 

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