Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[johnsusername]

3 hours ago, Liverpool lad said:

I see Brexit is going extremely well

 

Can we have somebody put forward their argument of what they 'won'? I am just curious to see when I can reap all the benefits

I too am waiting for all the good stuff. There is some, right? I mean there must be? Surely people didn't just vote Leave out of spite? 

[cloggypop]

1 hour ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

The Far Right would come on all "only bullets can stop us" and we'll bury them beneath a hail of bananas.

 

Again.

Do we have a national left luggage office? 

[Gnasher]

10 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Do you vote in General Elections?

I voted in the last one yes.I also voted in one which I linked s few pages back which the labour manifestos protested withdrawal from the EU.

 

Is be interested to know which way the participants in this thread would/did vote if they/when they has the chive between that potential govt and the status quo of staying in the EU under a certain Margret Thatcher.

 

Of course I've little hope of the elite on here answering that one maybe the clue is in the result.

[Mook]

17 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

I voted in the last one yes.I also voted in one which I linked s few pages back which the labour manifestos protested withdrawal from the EU.

 

Is be interested to know which way the participants in this thread would/did vote if they/when they has the chive between that potential govt and the status quo of staying in the EU under a certain Margret Thatcher.

 

Of course I've little hope of the elite on here answering that one maybe the clue is in the result.

 

Can I ask you a couple of questions please, do you think our proposed leaving of the EU is going well? Also, what benefits do you think we (hard working British people) are likely to see in the next five years?

 

Bear in mind this is a tory country & Labour can't even lay a glove on the most incompetent government in living memory so your socialist utopia shite won't wash.

 

Btw - I agree with you about the EU, in their current guise they are a shower of cunts.

[SasaS]

12 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Cameron, Boris, Corbyn, Osborne, Farage etc stop playing the man and start playing the ball.

 

Personality politics leads to the door of the daily Star.

 

Anyway here's a link to a former labour manifesto that someone pretended to be interested in earlier 

 

http://www.politicsresources.net/area/uk/man/lab83.htm#Common

 

 

Anyone care to debate the merits of the document?  

 

Angling must have been very big in the '80s.

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, Mook said:

 

Can I ask you a couple of questions please, do you think our proposed leaving of the EU is going well? Also, what benefits do you think we (hard working British people) are likely to see in the next five years?

 

Bear in mind this is a tory country & Labour can't even lay a glove on the most incompetent government in living memory so your socialist utopia shite won't wash.

 

Btw - I agree with you about the EU, in their current guise they are a shower of cunts.

 

No is the answer to your first question if what you mean is the UK govt handling of the situation, but that's hardly surprising with this shower. I look at it another way in that Brexit has flushed out the hypocrisy and incompetence of the conservative party. It's also done the opposite of what Cameron intended, which was to put to bed once and for all the divisions over Europe in his own party , to see him and Osbourne gone from mainstream politics was a bonus.

 

On your second question a lot of the points on why we should leave the EU and the benefits are in the manifesto I gave a link to earlier, it's years old but the points are still valid. 

 

Also a massive plus in Brexit is the wounds it inflicts on the conservative party, a prime minister resigned the following day as have over a dozen senior Tories in the past few months.

 

It's also worth noting that since the vote govt policy or at least rhetoric had to change regarding public service pay, austerity etc. I understand the concerns but we are currently seeing mass use of food banks child poverty and homelessness whilst we are still in the EU, they won't save you, why should they when the 10 years of austerity policy which has caused  hugh inequality throughout Europe (I admit our mob come out top in the cunt Olympics) is a path the EU endorsed.

[SasaS]

44 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

No is the answer to your first question if what you mean is the UK govt handling of the situation, but that's hardly surprising with this shower. I look at it another way in that Brexit has flushed out the hypocrisy and incompetence of the conservative party. It's also done the opposite of what Cameron intended, which was to put to bed once and for all the divisions over Europe in his own party , to see him and Osbourne gone from mainstream politics was a bonus.

 

On your second question a lot of the points on why we should leave the EU and the benefits are in the manifesto I gave a link to earlier, it's years old but the points are still valid. 

 

Also a massive plus in Brexit is the wounds it inflicts on the conservative party, a prime minister resigned the following day as have over a dozen senior Tories in the past few months.

 

It's also worth noting that since the vote govt policy or at least rhetoric had to change regarding public service pay, austerity etc. I understand the concerns but we are currently seeing mass use of food banks child poverty and homelessness whilst we are still in the EU, they won't save you, why should they when the 10 years of austerity policy which has caused  hugh inequality throughout Europe (I admit our mob come out top in the cunt Olympics) is a path the EU endorsed.

 

I think you are right in your view that if you want a radical social change, it is much easier to implement in without the EU membership, since the EU rules are designed to restrict radical deviation from western liberal democracy and its basic values. Some countries in the Eastern Europe are drifting away from it, such as Hungary and possibly Poland and are increasingly at odds with the EU because of it, as was the case with Greece before, on the opposite end of the spectrum and in different circumstances.

 

But it's slightly disingenuous of you to constantly lay all social economic problems, as you see them, at the door of the EU, particularly in a country which is not even in the Eurozone,  because the membership in itself mostly didn't cause them, otherwise you would have the same issues in Sweden or Holland as in Portugal, Slovakia or Bulgaria. EU limits budget deficits and foreign debt, which any responsible government would have to do anyway on its own if it wants access to current global financial set-up (if/when Labour takes over, some of such considerations will continue same as before, even outside the EU), and restricts many aspects of state aid, which, even if it weren't "neoliberal", would have to do to protect a level playing field in the common market. Other than that, there are considerable differences in taxation and level of public sector involvement and share from Sweden to Greece, meaning that a lot is left to national government policies. As several commentators pointed out, most if not all of now considerably left leaning Labour policies could be implemented within the EU state aid and other rules.

So, if you want a radical social change, yes, it makes much more sense to implement it in a non-member country than fight for your views to become dominant in the whole of the EU. However, it seems to me that social change would have to be so radical to make the current Labour seem like a centrist party for it to be sustainable only outside the EU.

Also, you would first have to persuade the electorate in that country to accept it, which seems like a toll order to me, considering that the same country has for decades failed to implement measures  from a relatively wide range of policies already available through membership, which you admit yourself in your post.

[magicrat]

3 hours ago, Gnasher said:

I voted in the last one yes.I also voted in one which I linked s few pages back which the labour manifestos protested withdrawal from the EU.

 

Is be interested to know which way the participants in this thread would/did vote if they/when they has the chive between that potential govt and the status quo of staying in the EU under a certain Margret Thatcher.

 

Of course I've little hope of the elite on here answering that one maybe the clue is in the result.

"Elite" ? You sound like Rees Mogg.  Nothing elite about opposing Brexit .

[skend04]

All the cunts pushing for Brexit are richer than I'll ever be. Fuck off with this "elite" nonsense. 

[Gnasher]

7 hours ago, SasaS said:

 

I think you are right in your view that if you want a radical social change, it is much easier to implement in without the EU membership, since the EU rules are designed to restrict radical deviation from western liberal democracy and its basic values. Some countries in the Eastern Europe are drifting away from it, such as Hungary and possibly Poland and are increasingly at odds with the EU because of it, as was the case with Greece before, on the opposite end of the spectrum and in different circumstances.

 

But it's slightly disingenuous of you to constantly lay all social economic problems, as you see them, at the door of the EU, particularly in a country which is not even in the Eurozone,  because the membership in itself mostly didn't cause them, otherwise you would have the same issues in Sweden or Holland as in Portugal, Slovakia or Bulgaria. EU limits budget deficits and foreign debt, which any responsible government would have to do anyway on its own if it wants access to current global financial set-up (if/when Labour takes over, some of such considerations will continue same as before, even outside the EU), and restricts many aspects of state aid, which, even if it weren't "neoliberal", would have to do to protect a level playing field in the common market. Other than that, there are considerable differences in taxation and level of public sector involvement and share from Sweden to Greece, meaning that a lot is left to national government policies. As several commentators pointed out, most if not all of now considerably left leaning Labour policies could be implemented within the EU state aid and other rules.

So, if you want a radical social change, yes, it makes much more sense to implement it in a non-member country than fight for your views to become dominant in the whole of the EU. However, it seems to me that social change would have to be so radical to make the current Labour seem like a centrist party for it to be sustainable only outside the EU.

Also, you would first have to persuade the electorate in that country to accept it, which seems like a toll order to me, considering that the same country has for decades failed to implement measures  from a relatively wide range of policies already available through membership, which you admit yourself in your post.

Whoa whoa whoa matey.

 

You raise good points and it's nice to see a coherent argument supportive  of the EU. I saw one very prominent poster a fee pages back blame the price of groceries at the door of Tesco. A big rant that seemed to forget Where EU money goes. 

 

I'll tell you where the EU money goes. It goes to the rich landowner fuckwits. Sorry but it's true.

[Gnasher]

4 hours ago, skend04 said:

All the cunts pushing for Brexit are richer than I'll ever be. Fuck off with this "elite" nonsense. 

Spot on, you've convinced me.  

 

"ELITE" nonsense? The ELITE" as you call these cunts and I've put them in capital for a reason are the reason why we have 30 years of pain whilst  you've got this...

 

https://inews.co.uk/news/environment/britains-wealthiest-people-raking-in-millions-in-farm-subsidies/

 

Now do you care to debate and support the utter cunts like in the above link who have made a fucking fortune out of us under the EU umbrella?

 

 

[Strontium]

But the government has confirmed that farming subsidies are going to continue outside the EU.

[deiseach]

Millions could have voted, and did vote, for the pro-EEC SDP in the 1983 election. 

Quote

The SDP was the most pro-European of the parties; indeed it was one of the reasons why Shirley Williams, David Owen and Bill Rodgers left the Labour Party to join Roy Jenkins in forming the alliance.

 

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, Strontium Dog said:

But the government has confirmed that farming subsidies are going to continue outside the EU.

 

Well fuck me timbers, the govt you mob of chancers let loose on this countries most vulnerable are protecting wealthy landowners. 

 

Your point is,?Let me guess.

 

.nothing changes so shrug and move along ,nothing to se here squire  that's just the way it is, don't upset the applecart blah blah bloody blah.

 

Dosnt make it right though that multi  billionaires are raking in massive profits (and they are, of that therw is little doubt) for supposed food production whilst food banks are now the norm.

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, deiseach said:

Millions could have voted, and did vote, for the pro-EEC SDP in the 1983 election. 

 

I have no idea what point you are trying to make if indeed you are trying to make a point.

 

Owen has always seemed to be to the right of labour and anti eu although he makes some valid points.

[Gnasher]

10 hours ago, SasaS said:

Angling must have been very big in the '80s.

 

I'll take that as a no then.

[Gnasher]

13 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

Well fuck me timbers, the govt you mob of chancers let loose on this countries most vulnerable are protecting wealthy landowners. 

 

Your point is,?Let me guess.

 

.nothing changes so shrug and move along ,nothing to se here squire  that's just the way it is, don't upset the applecart blah blah bloody blah.

 

Dosnt make it right though that multi  billionaires are raking in massive profits (and they are, of that therw is little doubt) for supposed food production whilst food banks are now the norm.

 

And as sure as night follows day stronts is straight in with the neg. He could of course debate the issue and explain why he thinks my points are a bunch of tosh but he is either incapable or unwilling, my guess is unwilling although I am beginning to wonder.

[Gnasher]

Anyway  I'm terrified the price of strawberrys might go up a pound. My world would collapse.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

I've always had a deep mistrust of men who eat strawberries.

[Captain Turdseye]

22 minutes ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

I've always had a deep mistrust of men who eat strawberries.

 

What about men who ram them up their own arses?

[Mook]

3 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:

 

What about men who ram them up their own arses?

Good clean wholesome fun that.

[Pidge]

25 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:

 

What about men who ram them up their own arses?

How else are you meant to check they're ripe?

[Captain Turdseye]

16 minutes ago, Pidge said:

How else are you meant to check they're ripe?

 

Penetration. 

[cloggypop]

I've always had a deep distrust of strawberries myself. Arrogant fuckers. All other fruit hides its seeds inside itself so birds eat them by mistake. Not strawberries like. Seeds on the outside. Flash Tory look at me cunt fruit. 

[Pidge]

1 hour ago, Captain Turdseye said:

 

Penetration. 

Strawberries and cream?