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Should the UK remain a member of the EU


Anny Road
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317 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the UK remain a member of the EU

    • Yes
      259
    • No
      58


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41 minutes ago, rico1304 said:

If by me and my friends you mean the world, then yes.  It’s a fact we have fewer wars etc.  Would you rather go to a food bank or die of polio?  

Is that the choice?

 

Inequality is fine because there has been medical advancements.  I know you're on the street, but at least you haven't got smallpox.

36 minutes ago, rico1304 said:

And as if by magic you poor downtrodden soul you post in the Amsterdam thread about a hotel that costs £150 a night.  You poor, poor bastard.  Hope do live with yourself? 

I am a person who empathises with the plight of others.  I personally lead a comfortable life.  I don't vote for a party that benefits me most personally or my own circumstances, and never have.

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12 minutes ago, razor said:

Is that the choice?

 

Inequality is fine because there has been medical advancements.  I know you're on the street, but at least you haven't got smallpox.

I am a person who empathises with the plight of others.  I personally lead a comfortable life.  I don't vote for a party that benefits me most personally or my own circumstances, and never have.

Who said it was a choice because it wasn’t and never has been. If you can’t see the world is a better place to live in than 50 yrs ago it ain’t my problem. 

 

On the hotel front i don’t think Anny Roads Dad would have been spending that kind of cash on a weekend break away so you? But you felt confident that a random person on the Internet would be able to afford it. Is that a sign of progress?  

 

Things arent perfect and I didn’t claim that, but they are better.  But you know that.  

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27 minutes ago, Jennings said:

Cross party talks. Pah!

 

There has just been a confidence vote. Ergo, parliament has confidence in the government. Govern. 

 

Let the Tories sort out the mess they spent two years creating.

 

Cross party talks with someone who can't negotiate with her own political party, has spent 2 and a half years ignoring pretty much everyone, and who still won't budge on her red lines is just a waste of everybody's time. But the media narrative is already heading towards "she's reaching out and Corbyn won't engage, he's playing political games".

 

She needs binning as soon as possible if a solution is to be found to this mess that the Tories have created.

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@NicolaSturgeon: So everything is not on the table. PM’s offer of talks is a promise to listen, but only if we all agree with her. @theSNP won’t be complicit in more time wasting. Rule out no deal, be prepared to extend Art 50 and agree to at least consider another referendum - then we’ll talk. https://twitter.com/bbcgaryr/status/1085814688418594816

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10 minutes ago, skend04 said:

Isn't the only way to rule out no deal by revoking Art.50? As long as that remains in place No Deal is still the likeliest outcome.

Well, you can rule it out by saying they’ll revoke it. It’s not legal but... anyway, it’s her trump card, so why would she rule it out? 

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2 hours ago, rico1304 said:

Who said it was a choice because it wasn’t and never has been. If you can’t see the world is a better place to live in than 50 yrs ago it ain’t my problem. 

 

On the hotel front i don’t think Anny Roads Dad would have been spending that kind of cash on a weekend break away so you? But you felt confident that a random person on the Internet would be able to afford it. Is that a sign of progress?  

 

Things arent perfect and I didn’t claim that, but they are better.  But you know that.  

 

If you can’t see the world is a better place to live in than 50 yrs ago it ain’t my problem

 

Actually, globally there are more deaths per capita due to armed conflict today than in the 1950s.  But actually, I think you have just projected out from originally talking about the UK to talking about "the world".

 

Your reference to polio is medical and not political.  I think it's debatable whether life is better today than it was 50 years ago, certainly when it is traced to stemming from political decisions rather than issues of medical finds.  There is huge inequality in the UK - certainly larger today than 50 years ago.  Understandably there are many people in the UK who are not happy - the UK is well down on the global happiness index.

 

(As for the hotel thing, I actually hadn't read the thread and didn't know anything about Anny / Anny's dad, I just read the title.  And to be honest, it isn't relevant to anything.  You're a person who has no regard for anybody other than yourself, as you've stated many times on here, and I am somebody who cares deeply about other people.)

 

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1 hour ago, razor said:

 

If you can’t see the world is a better place to live in than 50 yrs ago it ain’t my problem

 

Actually, globally there are more deaths per capita due to armed conflict today than in the 1950s.  But actually, I think you have just projected out from originally talking about the UK to talking about "the world".

 

Your reference to polio is medical and not political.  I think it's debatable whether life is better today than it was 50 years ago, certainly when it is traced to stemming from political decisions rather than issues of medical finds.  There is huge inequality in the UK - certainly larger today than 50 years ago.  Understandably there are many people in the UK who are not happy - the UK is well down on the global happiness index.

 

(As for the hotel thing, I actually hadn't read the thread and didn't know anything about Anny / Anny's dad, I just read the title.  And to be honest, it isn't relevant to anything.  You're a person who has no regard for anybody other than yourself, as you've stated many times on here, and I am somebody who cares deeply about other people.)

 

 

No, I care about my family and people I know more than anyone else and make no apologies for that.  You say you care deeply about other people, oh good, but how exactly does that care manifest itself? It’s like hopes and prayers, means fuck all unless you put your money where your mouth is.  You feel good about yourself though, that’s the main thing.  

 

https://reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/resources/Dupuy%2C Rustad- Trends in Armed Conflict%2C 1946–2017%2C Conflict Trends 5-2018.pdf

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3 hours ago, Jennings said:

Cross party talks. Pah!

 

There has just been a confidence vote. Ergo, parliament has confidence in the government. Govern. 

 

Let the Tories sort out the mess they spent two years creating.

Normally I would agree but on their own they can't sort it out alone, a fact that should have dawned on her a couple of years ago but, with the country teetering on the edge it needs Labour to engage however much of a nasty taste that leaves. I'm sure its all posturing still and Corbyn will be indirectly talking to May if not today then in the near future. It may be the Tories shit-storm but Labour are not immune from the fallout.

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I enjoy debating with you Rico because in some respects you are honest. You care about you. Fair enough I respect that.

You do however project your measure of happiness onto others for whom your measures mean absolutely nothing.

 

If I said to my old fella that he is in poverty because he does not have a mobile phone, an ipad or cannot go to Amsterdam he would laugh at me. He would probably say that he retired at 60, with a payoff and a good pension. His mortgage is paid off (for all it was). His wife has never had to work a day in her life, despite him being essentially an unskilled manual worker, if a senior one. He had his dinner at the same time every night for 40 odd years. He has full life insurance for which he never paid a penny, changes his motor every 2 years if he fancies a change, has all the fishing gear he could ever wish for and the canal is 100 yards from his door.

He gets pissed every day, has a telly the size of a cinema and is happy. Ipads and Amsterdam do not even register on his radar.

Even if I wanted half of that it is not available to me.

 

I went to my Nans funeral last year and we have some seriously wealthy people in our family. Without exception they were jealous of my old man. They are still working at the same age as him now the kids are in 40k debt with useless student loans. He is a normal working class scouser with no skills who can argue like fuck but not write it down. These days he would be in the gutter.

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12 minutes ago, magicrat said:

Normally I would agree but on their own they can't sort it out alone, a fact that should have dawned on her a couple of years ago but, with the country teetering on the edge it needs Labour to engage however much of a nasty taste that leaves. I'm sure its all posturing still and Corbyn will be indirectly talking to May if not today then in the near future. It may be the Tories shit-storm but Labour are not immune from the fallout.

2 and a half years she has excluded everyone, including her cabinet and her plethora of Brexit Ministers from any discussion about red lines and diplomacy. She tried every trick in the book to minimise Parliaments input into the process so much so that she was found to be in legal contempt.

Her policy was defeated by the biggest majority in parliamentary history and she then has the temerity to accuse JC of being uncooperative for saying the no deal option needs to go.

 

Shambles is to light it is verging on criminal neglect.

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Caroline Lucas just come out of the meeting and says May is unwilling to budge on anything. 

 

I'm genuinely baffled as to what's going on now. A deal can't be agreed but there's no alternative and May just keeps saying 'we'll deliver Brexit, we'll deliver Brexit'. 

 

Is she nuts? Seriously? It's Trump-esque. 

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2 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Caroline Lucas just come out of the meeting and says May is unwilling to budge on anything. 

 

I'm genuinely baffled as to what's going on now. A deal can't be agreed but there's no alternative and May just keeps saying 'we'll deliver Brexit, we'll deliver Brexit'. 

 

Is she nuts? Seriously? It's Trump-esque. 

The only way she is gone and the Tories have a hope of surviving as a political party is if they fall on the sword. Can't see it and no deal and a Tory split it will be.

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Just now, Anny Road said:

2 and a half years she has excluded everyone, including her cabinet and her plethora of Brexit Ministers from any discussion about red lines and diplomacy. She tried every trick in the book to minimise Parliaments input into the process so much so that she was found to be in legal contempt.

Her policy was defeated by the biggest majority in parliamentary history and she then has the temerity to accuse JC of being uncooperative for saying the no deal option needs to go.

 

Shambles is to light it is verging on criminal neglect.

Mate we know all this but it doesn't alter the fact that the country needs Labour to dig it out the shit. May will never manage to do it for multiple reasons, mainly the fact that her party is irreconcilably split and she will never get them to unanimously back anything. It sticks in the gullet but that's where we are.

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4 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Caroline Lucas just come out of the meeting and says May is unwilling to budge on anything. 

 

I'm genuinely baffled as to what's going on now. A deal can't be agreed but there's no alternative and May just keeps saying 'we'll deliver Brexit, we'll deliver Brexit'. 

 

Is she nuts? Seriously? It's Trump-esque. 

What’s going on is she’s playing poker with no Brexit. 

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4 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Caroline Lucas just come out of the meeting and says May is unwilling to budge on anything. 

 

I'm genuinely baffled as to what's going on now. A deal can't be agreed but there's no alternative and May just keeps saying 'we'll deliver Brexit, we'll deliver Brexit'. 

 

Is she nuts? Seriously? It's Trump-esque. 

She's not going to blur any lines until Labour engage. Caroline Lucas can't offer anything she needs,

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7 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Caroline Lucas just come out of the meeting and says May is unwilling to budge on anything. 

 

I'm genuinely baffled as to what's going on now. A deal can't be agreed but there's no alternative and May just keeps saying 'we'll deliver Brexit, we'll deliver Brexit'. 

 

Is she nuts? Seriously? It's Trump-esque. 

I obviously have no insight, but I believe her thought process is my deal or no deal are the only options on the table. As we get closer to default position of no deal then MP's will have no option but to go for her deal.

 

I also believe JC is aware of this and that is why he refuses to enter talks until she removes No deal. So if we do crash out, May will point the finger and try to blame everyone else, whereas JC can say, "this happened because you refused to take no deal offf the table".

 

 

 

EDIT: NV and poker was a better way of putting it.

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1 minute ago, magicrat said:

Mate we know all this but it doesn't alter the fact that the country needs Labour to dig it out the shit. May will never manage to do it for multiple reasons, mainly the fact that her party is irreconcilably split and she will never get them to unanimously back anything. It sticks in the gullet but that's where we are.

To be honest Mag why the fuck should he bail her out. Its her mess her deal her fuck up. He will get no thanks in the sense of nation spirit. They will just then vote for BJ.

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Just now, Anny Road said:

To be honest Mag why the fuck should he bail her out. Its her mess her deal her fuck up. He will get no thanks in the sense of nation spirit. They will just then vote for BJ.

Because he gets to shape any Brexit agreement and the worst hit by the Tories shit-fest will be Labour voters

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1 minute ago, magicrat said:

Because he gets to shape any Brexit agreement and the worst hit by the Tories shit-fest will be Labour voters

The reason we have the deal we currently have is because of all the Red lines. It appears she will not remove any of them, so no one will be able to shape anything, but will be blamed for being involved.

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2 minutes ago, magicrat said:

Because he gets to shape any Brexit agreement and the worst hit by the Tories shit-fest will be Labour voters

Much as I like JC he does not give a fuck about Brexit. Arguably rightly.

He wants power and the ability to implement his range of policies. Left wing nationalisation, workers empowerment etc etc.

That is fine by me but will make 70% of the country shiver.

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10 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Caroline Lucas just come out of the meeting and says May is unwilling to budge on anything. 

 

I'm genuinely baffled as to what's going on now. A deal can't be agreed but there's no alternative and May just keeps saying 'we'll deliver Brexit, we'll deliver Brexit'. 

 

Is she nuts? Seriously? It's Trump-esque. 

She’s just stalling and letting it get as close to March as possible so that people shit themselves and vote for her deal. She’s not interested in making any big changes, she’s going to make some superficial tweaks and then bring it back and hope that she wins because of fear, basically.

 

The more I think of it, the more I think Labours stance is actually very clever and strategic. May is gambling because instead of scaring people into voting for her deal she risks the DUP or ERG turning on her and abstaining on a second confidence vote.

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