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Should the UK remain a member of the EU


Anny Road
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317 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the UK remain a member of the EU

    • Yes
      259
    • No
      58


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58 minutes ago, Boss said:

 

So the study you've posted deals with E coli samples from raw meat, and tests the bacterial strains resistance to antibiotics, yeah? Yet we know E coli is destroyed at 160 degrees Fahrenheit, so square that circle genius. 

Have a read up on horizontal gene transfer.

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55 minutes ago, Boss said:

 

So the study you've posted deals with E coli samples from raw meat, and tests the bacterial strains resistance to antibiotics, yeah? Yet we know E coli is destroyed at 160 degrees Fahrenheit, so square that circle genius. 

Nah, I ain't squaring any circle. The study is there and it isn't the only one that scientists in America are conducting because of the concerns over antibiotic use in animal rearing. If you think it's flawed because they undercooked the meat then so be it. 

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20 minutes ago, Nelly-Torres said:

The state of this debate in the Commons. 

 

They're arguing over whether the Speaker had an anti-Brexit sticker in his car. Or if it was in his wife's car.

 

Nice to see Parliament getting to grips with all the important issues...

 

Soon, they'll have deflected so far that things will come full circle and they'll end up shining a light on something they deflected away from before.

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HR sent an email to all staff today, reminding all EU/EEA citizens that they need to sort their shitty paperwork out, or that racist cunt May is going to send a van round. (I'm paraphrasing. )

 

It still disgusts me that the people with most at stake in the Referendum were not allowed to vote. 

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20 minutes ago, Trumo said:

 

Soon, they'll have deflected so far that things will come full circle and they'll end up shining a light on something they deflected away from before.

Tory Brexiteer's really are scum, I thought the whole point of Brexit was parliamentary sovereignty? Perhaps if their own PM hadn't made it clear that her only tactic is to delay and run down the clock as much as possible parliament wouldn't feel the need to time limit her? I can see another delayed vote coming.

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1 hour ago, Nelly-Torres said:

The state of this debate in the Commons. 

 

They're arguing over whether the Speaker had an anti-Brexit sticker in his car. Or if it was in his wife's car.

 

Nice to see Parliament getting to grips with all the important issues...

Bercow's rebuff was great.

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1 hour ago, skend04 said:

Nah, I ain't squaring any circle. The study is there and it isn't the only one that scientists in America are conducting because of the concerns over antibiotic use in animal rearing. If you think it's flawed because they undercooked the meat then so be it. 

 

They didn't undercook the meat though, they didn't cook it at all. This belies your fundamental misunderstanding of what you're talking about. You're so dogmatically pro-EU that you'll post a study you have not read, to prove a stance that you have no knowledge of, and double down upon it when facts are presented that refute your claims.

 

Here's what we know. E coli exists on raw meat. E coli exists on raw meat regardless of whether it's from the USA or the UK. E coli exists in every single one of our bodies - it's part of the many trillions of bacteria that make up our gut flora. There are specific strains of E coli that cause what we know as the effects of E coli. The main strains are killed at 160 degrees Fahrenheit.

 

That means, what you've posted as categorical proof that American meat is more dangerous to human health than EU meat, is only relevant if you're a disciple of Aajonus Vonderplanitz and exclusively consume a raw meat diet. For everyone else it's irrelevant. 

 

let's say you are that way inclined, for arguments sake, buy organic meat then. Plenty of organic, grass fed, pasture raised meat available in America with zero antibiotics in it. And guess what? It's cheaper than the UK equivalent.

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1 minute ago, Spy Bee said:

I've tuned out of this saga for a while. So, on Tuesday May's Deal gets rejected. At that stage, if she decides to plough on ahead with Hard Brexit, what can stop her?

Parliament has sovereignty over this, no? They will vote to extend article 50

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6 minutes ago, Spy Bee said:

I think they have sovereignty over a "meaningful vote", I don't think that means they have a true final say.

Yes you are right. Ministers could ignore the vote.

 

This article explains it better

 

What happens next

 

Quote

Though this motion would not be legally binding, and would not force ministers to comply with MPs’ wishes, it would have immense symbolic power. And in the extreme circumstances of no-deal, the government would be challenged to permit a non-neutral motion, while Labour could use its parliamentary time to table its own version.

In practice, then, politics would likely trump procedure.

 

Faced with the prospect of no deal, the government would be pressured to grant one or more of the following: a soft Brexit (European Economic Area membership), a second referendum, or an early general election. As 2017 demonstrated, the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 is no obstacle to the latter: parliament can be dissolved through a two-thirds majority, or through a vote of no confidence in the government (resulting in a new election unless an alternative administration wins the support of the Commons within 14 days).

 

In such circumstances, the EU has already signalled that it would be prepared to grant an extension to the Article 50 period (though this requires the unanimous approval of the 27 other EU member states).

 

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1 hour ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

HR sent an email to all staff today, reminding all EU/EEA citizens that they need to sort their shitty paperwork out, or that racist cunt May is going to send a van round. (I'm paraphrasing. )

 

It still disgusts me that the people with most at stake in the Referendum were not allowed to vote. 

16/17 year olds also fall into that category. Having their lives decided by some fucking ham faced old cunts that are about another three sausage rolls away from keeling over. 

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1 hour ago, Boss said:

 

They didn't undercook the meat though, they didn't cook it at all. This belies your fundamental misunderstanding of what you're talking about. You're so dogmatically pro-EU that you'll post a study you have not read, to prove a stance that you have no knowledge of, and double down upon it when facts are presented that refute your claims.

 

Here's what we know. E coli exists on raw meat. E coli exists on raw meat regardless of whether it's from the USA or the UK. E coli exists in every single one of our bodies - it's part of the many trillions of bacteria that make up our gut flora. There are specific strains of E coli that cause what we know as the effects of E coli. The main strains are killed at 160 degrees Fahrenheit.

 

That means, what you've posted as categorical proof that American meat is more dangerous to human health than EU meat, is only relevant if you're a disciple of Aajonus Vonderplanitz and exclusively consume a raw meat diet. For everyone else it's irrelevant. 

 

let's say you are that way inclined, for arguments sake, buy organic meat then. Plenty of organic, grass fed, pasture raised meat available in America with zero antibiotics in it. And guess what? It's cheaper than the UK equivalent.

So, let's get this right because I've posted a report I don't understand. 

 

They've carried out a study in a city they can say provided a controlled situation. 

 

Every 2 weeks they took samples of the meat that is on sale in the town.

 

They then took bacteria from blood and urine samples from the patients of Flagstaff hospital staff to check bacterial prevalance and see when, and what type of strains, arrived and how they spread across the town.

 

They then cross checked the meat and bacterial (from people) samples and found strains of E.Coli in 82% of the meat and 72% of humans (just to say here, yes, I know e.coli resides in our guts too).

 

They then found the H22 strain, that was present in chicken meat and in the human samples indicating, via checking of the strains genetic markers, that it was present now in humans through eating the meat.

 

Now I know you can get e.coli from undercooked meat, unpasteurised milk, fruit and veg grown in tainted soils, water and other people. But this study concluded that H22 has genetically, not as food poisoning, crossed from poultry to humans because of the antibiotic regimes on American farms.

 

They haven't tested the other strains of E.Coli they say are present but say an estimated 40,000 of UTIs in America are caused by a strain that originated in poultry but is now present in humans. Because of antibiotic use not because they ate raw meat.

 

Right, I think I understand all that and I'm pretty much correct in not wanting to eat mass produced American meat where farms and businesses aren't interested in the health effects on their consumers.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Boss said:

Here's what we know. E coli exists on raw meat. E coli exists on raw meat regardless of whether it's from the USA or the UK. E coli exists in every single one of our bodies - it's part of the many trillions of bacteria that make up our gut flora. There are specific strains of E coli that cause what we know as the effects of E coli. The main strains are killed at 160 degrees Fahrenheit.

And yet people still get (and die from) E.coli infections, which at the moment can be controlled by the use of prophylactic antibiotics. What happens when these strains become resistant to the antibiotics used to treat infections (many of which are the same or related to antibiotics used in agriculture)? What happens when resistant bacteria are spread into the environment and that resistance is passed on  to other pathogenic bacteria through mechanisms such as horizontal gene transfer?

The non-judicial overuse of antibiotics in agriculture presents a very clear danger to human health and our ability to treat bacterial infections.

(Apologies for going off topic).

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1 hour ago, Jairzinho said:

16/17 year olds also fall into that category. Having their lives decided by some fucking ham faced old cunts that are about another three sausage rolls away from keeling over. 

Wish Dave would stop using sponsored content from the pork industry.

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1 hour ago, M_B said:

Yes you are right. Ministers could ignore the vote.

 

This article explains it better

 

What happens next

 

 


So, if the deal is rejected, the likeliest scenario is general election, since this is presumably the only scenario in which it makes any sense for the EU to grant an extension of Article 50?

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2 hours ago, skend04 said:

So, let's get this right because I've posted a report I don't understand. 

 

They've carried out a study in a city they can say provided a controlled situation. 

 

Every 2 weeks they took samples of the meat that is on sale in the town.

 

They then took bacteria from blood and urine samples from the patients of Flagstaff hospital staff to check bacterial prevalance and see when, and what type of strains, arrived and how they spread across the town.

 

They then cross checked the meat and bacterial (from people) samples and found strains of E.Coli in 82% of the meat and 72% of humans (just to say here, yes, I know e.coli resides in our guts too).

 

They then found the H22 strain, that was present in chicken meat and in the human samples indicating, via checking of the strains genetic markers, that it was present now in humans through eating the meat.

 

Now I know you can get e.coli from undercooked meat, unpasteurised milk, fruit and veg grown in tainted soils, water and other people. But this study concluded that H22 has genetically, not as food poisoning, crossed from poultry to humans because of the antibiotic regimes on American farms.

 

They haven't tested the other strains of E.Coli they say are present but say an estimated 40,000 of UTIs in America are caused by a strain that originated in poultry but is now present in humans. Because of antibiotic use not because they ate raw meat.

 

Right, I think I understand all that and I'm pretty much correct in not wanting to eat mass produced American meat where farms and businesses aren't interested in the health effects on their consumers.

 

 

Firstly, it's not present in humans because of antibiotic use. It's present in raw chicken and if people touch raw meat and then eat something else - or if they severely undercook poultry - they can end up with this strain of E coli. The people tested are all patients in hospital that have contracted E coli, so it's not representative of the general population. The main concern being that it can be resilient to two antibiotics, tetracycline and gentamicin. The conclusion was the strain that contaminates raw poultry originates in the animal population and not the human population.

 

It's not like we don't have E coli causing UTI's in the UK or that the smaller amount of antibiotics in our food supply has affected these UTI ratios whatsoever. 

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3 hours ago, Jairzinho said:

16/17 year olds also fall into that category. Having their lives decided by some fucking ham faced old cunts that are about another three sausage rolls away from keeling over. 

The one vegan one nearly did the trick on it's own.

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1 hour ago, Denny Crane said:

All this talk of tasty American meat can only mean one thing. Time for Chris Grayling and his partner in crime Andy Tover to strike a lucrative bumper deal with the world leading Krusty Burgers. 

 

Krusty Burger brought to you by Chris Anthony Grayling Bamford - the world leader in Krusty Burger establishments. This £100,000,000 will not find it's way into a Peruvian shell account, we promise. 

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