Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[Skidfingers McGonical]

31 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

It's open to all those things anyway. Half of Widnes moved to Australia already.

So what you’re saying is that Stronts just can’t be arsed queuing when he goes on holiday? 

[Section_31]

2 hours ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

So what you’re saying is that Stronts just can’t be arsed queuing when he goes on.

The movement thing is such a load of bollocks. How many English people go to Europe for low skilled work other than Jimmy Nail? 

 

They're mostly seasonal bar workers, bankers and finance industry people I'd wager. Seasonal work surely won't stop, people go to Israel and Australia all the time to pick strawberries and what not, people go to camp America etc.

 

The idea that the end to free movement will strangle the NHS is bollocks too. Every single one of my doctors when I was a kid was Indian or Pakistani, back the nurses in the royal are Filipino. If you've got the skills you'll get in.

 

Free movement should have been called 'mass free movement'. There's a monumental difference between people heading in dribs and drabs to a country, and whole towns of young people doing it by the thousands if not tens of thousands all at the same time.

 

But hey, I'm  down with that as I'm not unskilled and I'm trendy and liberal, love foreigners and am therefore cleverer than you.

[magicrat]

Lots of bad things about the EU but how would anyone in their right mind buy into the Mogg/Johnson vision for our collective future. Mogg with his 100 mill fortune and offshore tax dodging hedge fund business , a raving God botherer that wont discuss his opposition to abortion because it and issue of faith and wants us back in Victorian England stuffing children up chimneys. Alternatively Johnson , a poundland Trump, who just wants to be loved.

[aRdja]

 

On 12/11/2018 at 1:06 PM, Strontium Dog said:

 

Come on, he gave the EU a mark of 7 out of 10, how can you argue with enthusiasm like that...

At my university that’s a Distinction. 

[Strontium]

1 minute ago, aRdja said:

At my university that’s a Distinction. 

 

You have a better education than Her Majesty's Leader of the Opposition, then.

[aRdja]

2 minutes ago, Strontium Dog said:

 

You have a better education than Her Majesty's Leader of the Opposition, then.

Probably thanks to my generous folks who paid for all of it. Unfortunately I’m not close to being half the man.

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 minute ago, Strontium Dog said:

 

You have a better education than Her Majesty's Leader of the Opposition, then.

You must be so sick of Corbyn in this thread, eh?

 

Yet he's made it all the way to the top of the Labour Party. With your education, how's your political career going? You must be leader of the Lib Dems by now. I mean, that's how that works right? 

[Gnasher]

5 hours ago, Strontium Dog said:

 

You have a better education than Her Majesty's Leader of the 

 

Tedious cunt

[Gnasher]

Anyone else not enjoying the Tory party tearing itself apart.

 

Let's not be under the illusion that the humiliation of the cunt party  could not have occurred without the brave 52% throwing the political dice. Its now becoming a simple fact.

[Jose Jones]

20 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Anyone else not enjoying the Tory party tearing itself apart.

 

Let's not be under the illusion that the humiliation of the cunt party  could not have occurred without the brave 52% throwing the political dice. Its now becoming a simple fact.

Or the brave 52% could have just voted for Labour at the last GE and had the same effect on the Tory party, without chucking the country down the gurgler at the same time.

[Strontium]

Legions of brave racists fighting to take their country back from the dirty forrins.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

Anyone else not enjoying the Tory party tearing itself apart.

 

Let's not be under the illusion that the humiliation of the cunt party  could not have occurred without the brave 52% throwing the political dice. Its now becoming a simple fact.

Quite, quite mad.

 

A 52/48 win to Remain would have left the same gaping wounds in the Tory Party.

 

And what the fuck is so brave about voting to keep the forriners out anyway?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Portugal's economy is improving because the government reversed austerity. 

 

French protesters forced their government to rein in the worst of their austerity measures. 

 

Spain has just announced its largest minimum wage increase for 40 years  - 22%.

 

All of these things happened within the EU and without any opposition from the EU.   It is just flat wrong to pretend that leaving the EU is an essential prerequisite for opposing austerity. 

 

(Conversely, the BNP used to describe leaving the EU as the "sine qua non" of their Fascists agenda.)

[AngryOfTuebrook]

It will be interesting to see how long May can delay bringing the vote on her deal to Parliament.  I can't see her winning that vote or the subsequent vote of No Confidence. And given that the Tory MPs are now in a position where some of them are refusing to stand alongside each other for BBC interviews, where the Chancellor is calling a large number of his Parliamentary colleagues "extremists" and where Rees-Mogg  (the mouthpiece of the ERG) is accusing half of his fellow MPs of having been bought off by May, I can't see them forming a government that's acceptable to the Parliamentary Conservative Party - let alone the House of Commons - within 14 days.

 

When May calls the vote on her deal, she's effectively firing the starting gun on the next General Election. 

[Anubis]

IO thought she'd called it for the 21st January 2019, or is that just speculation on the media's part?

[Pidge]

Not before Christmas, so ERG opened the door to more brinkmanship, which is all they really had to achieve while there's no real call in the house for another popular vote.

 

Looking beyond it now, outside the chaos CANZUK free movement seems like one option we could pursue short term.

 

Ha! "Short term..."

[M_B]

The German Parliament has voted against renegotiating the withdrawal agreement.

 

So May has no choice but to scare folks into accepting the deal with "Its my shite deal or we're all fucked" and "The EU has assurred me the backstop won't be indefinite.". Sadly for her, its MP's who'll be voting this time rather the populace.

 

 

...or have they. The motion in the German Parliament was

 

"‘it would be an illusion to hope that a rejection of the deal could lead to renegotiations"

 

...which is a bit odd. The conspiracy theorist in me thinks May agreed with Merkel to put that motion before the German Parliament so that it would create headlines like mine in an effort to scare folks into voting for her deal. That motion however is not actually a rejection of renegotiations.

 

....maybe I am just being paranoid. Am feeling ill today and the medication might be playing with my head...

[Denny Crane]

This is a good idea in theory, cabinet ministers want to see what support there is for other options like Norway plus and another referendum, no deal  and others.  But it assumes politicians actually do what they indicate they would do. You could argue the case it takes the brinkmanship out and people can vote accordingly but when it comes down to it that will play a part in how they vote oh and politics etc. 

 

 

 

 

Sam Coates Times

 

@SamCoatesTimes

 

Times David Gauke, Amber Rudd, David Lidington, Greg Clark and Mr Hammond want Mrs May to bring back her deal for a vote as early as next week. They then want the Commons to hold a series of “indicative” votes on every conceivable option

 

[M_B]

14 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Anyone else not enjoying the Tory party tearing itself apart.

 

Let's not be under the illusion that the humiliation of the cunt party  could not have occurred without the brave 52% throwing the political dice. Its now becoming a simple fact.

I'll feel better when they are no longer in power. The danger is they split and a new, even more right wing Tory party emerges under the leadership of Mogg, Johnson and Gove. That would genuinely horrify me.

[magicrat]

2 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

It will be interesting to see how long May can delay bringing the vote on her deal to Parliament.  I can't see her winning that vote or the subsequent vote of No Confidence. And given that the Tory MPs are now in a position where some of them are refusing to stand alongside each other for BBC interviews, where the Chancellor is calling a large number of his Parliamentary colleagues "extremists" and where Rees-Mogg  (the mouthpiece of the ERG) is accusing half of his fellow MPs of having been bought off by May, I can't see them forming a government that's acceptable to the Parliamentary Conservative Party - let alone the House of Commons - within 14 days.

 

When May calls the vote on her deal, she's effectively firing the starting gun on the next General Election. 

Don't agree mate. She will lose the vote yet win the NCV ( if there is one). No GE.

Good chance the Grieve amendment will pass ruling out no deal. Cornered it will end up with a peoples vote. Can't see any other way out. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

4 minutes ago, magicrat said:

Don't agree mate. She will lose the vote yet win the NCV

Well, the DUP are the key here, I think. If they are staring down the barrel of the thing they want least, I can see them having to not back the government. I mean, I don't know how she can avoid it if government won't support her in her efforts to get Brexit across the line.

[Jenson]

May's "it's my deal or no deal" scare tactic won't work anymore. We now have the option to revoke A50, so if we do crash out with no deal it will be a deliberate act, not one that couldn't be avoided.

[magicrat]

1 minute ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Well, the DUP are the key here, I think. If they are staring down the barrel of the thing they want least, I can see them having to not back the government. I mean, I don't know how she can avoid it if government won't support her in her efforts to get Brexit across the line.

DUP will back her in a NCV. They said that yesterday but the deal wont go through without the backstop being removed or with legally binding ability to unilaterally get out of it which seems unlikely

[magicrat]

1 minute ago, Jenson said:

May's "it's my deal or no deal" scare tactic won't work anymore. We now have the option to revoke A50, so if we do crash out with no deal it will be a deliberate act, not one that couldn't be avoided.

Its possible with gridlock in the house there is no majority for anything. Crashing out becomes the default. That's the danger 

[Numero Veinticinco]

2 minutes ago, magicrat said:

DUP will back her in a NCV. They said that yesterday but the deal wont go through without the backstop being removed or with legally binding ability to unilaterally get out of it which seems unlikely

They said it regarding a vote now. What happens after that, if they're staring down the barrel or a no-deal Brexit? If DUP are going to vote against their own best interests, then what's the point?