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Should the UK remain a member of the EU


Anny Road
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317 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the UK remain a member of the EU

    • Yes
      259
    • No
      58


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I am becoming more convinced that Brexit won't happen in March if at all. A 50 extension and an election or a second vote. May wont get her deal through Parliament and will face a coup from the Loons. Irrespective of that a cross party alliance to get a second vote would seem very possible in order to head off the cliff edge

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3 minutes ago, moof said:

I honestly don’t see a scenario where we actually go ahead with no deal. 

I honestly don't see a scenario where anything other than no deal is possible. The Irish border is the circle that can't be squared, it's been kicked down the road for the best part of 2 years and we're not an inch closer to a resolution. 

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7 minutes ago, No2 said:

I honestly don't see a scenario where anything other than no deal is possible. The Irish border is the circle that can't be squared, it's been kicked down the road for the best part of 2 years and we're not an inch closer to a resolution. 

The EU have said that the Irish border has not been discussed since December at the request of the Tories to get them through the conference season. Highlights the priorities of the government.

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12 minutes ago, No2 said:

I honestly don't see a scenario where anything other than no deal is possible. The Irish border is the circle that can't be squared, it's been kicked down the road for the best part of 2 years and we're not an inch closer to a resolution. 

Have any of the leading lights of the pro-Brexit campaigns ever said "Well, obviously we thought through all the implications of Brexit long before the Referendum  - I mean, we've been talking about this for years, we'd have to be both negligent and stupid not to have thought it through  - and our preferred solution for the Irish border is..."?

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1 hour ago, No2 said:

I honestly don't see a scenario where anything other than no deal is possible. The Irish border is the circle that can't be squared, it's been kicked down the road for the best part of 2 years and we're not an inch closer to a resolution. 

Which is why Brexit isn't going to happen, at least unless the blind and the stupid vote leave in sufficient numbers for a second time

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2 minutes ago, magicrat said:

Which is why Brexit isn't going to happen, at least unless the blind and the stupid vote leave in sufficient numbers for a second time

How does this end so?

 

A border in the Sea? A Big fat No.

A border on the Island of Ireland? A big fat No.

Nothing happens at all? I don't think the EU will accept this, this can't be allowed to dominate for years to come, it needs boxing off now from the EU's point of view.

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1 hour ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Have any of the leading lights of the pro-Brexit campaigns ever said "Well, obviously we thought through all the implications of Brexit long before the Referendum  - I mean, we've been talking about this for years, we'd have to be both negligent and stupid not to have thought it through  - and our preferred solution for the Irish border is..."?

They don't care, they view any pain as being worth the price. They view the wasteland of Thatcher's 1980's de-industrialisation as a golden panacea. 

 

Tory Brexiteer's are to a man and woman disaster capitalist's who view the whole process as a baptism of fire which will cleanse the nation of red tape and individual rights allowing a new deregulated, leaner and more competitive UK to rise from the ashes. Many of them are conveniently in a position to personally profit from a no deal. 

 

They've all shifted their position post the referendum where they all insisted a no deal Brexit was 'Project Fear' and not a realistic outcome to now adopting 'no deal' as the holy grail, which was their real position all along.

 

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57 minutes ago, clangers said:

They don't care, they view any pain as being worth the price. They view the wasteland of Thatcher's 1980's de-industrialisation as a golden panacea. 

 

Tory Brexiteer's are to a man and woman disaster capitalist's who view the whole process as a baptism of fire which will cleanse the nation of red tape and individual rights allowing a new deregulated, leaner and more competitive UK to rise from the ashes. Many of them are conveniently in a position to personally profit from a no deal. 

 

They've all shifted their position post the referendum where they all insisted a no deal Brexit was 'Project Fear' and not a realistic outcome to now adopting 'no deal' as the holy grail, which was their real position all along.

 

How about the "Lexit" crowd? Did they ever think it through?

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2 hours ago, No2 said:

How does this end so?

 

A border in the Sea? A Big fat No.

A border on the Island of Ireland? A big fat No.

Nothing happens at all? I don't think the EU will accept this, this can't be allowed to dominate for years to come, it needs boxing off now from the EU's point of view.

May will get some agreement which MPs will likely reject. What follows is conjecture but my money would be on a second vote. I can't see us crashing out .

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16 hours ago, clangers said:

They don't care, they view any pain as being worth the price. They view the wasteland of Thatcher's 1980's de-industrialisation as a golden panacea. 

 

Tory Brexiteer's are to a man and woman disaster capitalist's who view the whole process as a baptism of fire which will cleanse the nation of red tape and individual rights allowing a new deregulated, leaner and more competitive UK to rise from the ashes. Many of them are conveniently in a position to personally profit from a no deal. 

 

They've all shifted their position post the referendum where they all insisted a no deal Brexit was 'Project Fear' and not a realistic outcome to now adopting 'no deal' as the holy grail, which was their real position all along.

 

 

This is my reading of what is going on, with the 'Britannia unchained' crowd oinking and knocking their hooves together in approval.

 

Recent stuff in the Telegraph and Times about 'how we would have to reduce taxes and red tape to remain competitive' are indicative of this. The UK currently spends as a proportion of GDP considerably less than European countries on services and public amenities, many of the hard brexiteers will try to ensure that this disparity grows even further.

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You've heard of the Gunpowder Plot. Now meet the Pizza Plot....

 

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/news/99100/eight-cabinet-ministers-meet-pizza-plot

 

Quote

 

A total of eight senior ministers, including Brexit Secretary Dominic Raab, Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt and Environment Secretary Michael Gove met in Commons leader Andrea Leadsom's office ahead of a crunch Cabinet meeting this morning.

 

The others at the clandestine gathering were International Development Secretary Penny Mordaunt, Transport Secretary Chris Grayling, Treasury Secretary Liz Truss, and Attorney General Geoffrey Cox.

 

In a further sign of the growing Tory unease at Mrs May's approach, Cabinet members Liam Fox, Matt Hancock and Esther McVey sent their apologies for being unable to attend the meeting.

 

However, it is thought unlikely that any of those present will follow through with threats to resign at this morning's Cabinet, at which the Prime Minister will give an update on the state of the Brexit negotiations.

 

PoliticsHome has learned that those attending have been ordered to turn up 45 minutes before the 9.30am start to read key documents on Mrs May's proposed way ahead.

 

The Prime Minister is facing intense pressure from her own party as well as the DUP on whose support she relies for a Commons majority over efforts to break the Brexit impasse.

 

Former Conservative leader Lord Hague today warned that the Tories had been "stretched to breaking point" over the latest row, and said the UK needed to go "full throttle" with plans for a no-deal Brexit.

 

"When the Cabinet assembles this morning, it now seems very unlikely that they can collectively accept any proposed EU withdrawal agreement on the table, and indeed that they would in any case be unwise to do so," he wrote in the Telegraph.

 

"Such a situation may well be a cause of intense frustration for the Prime Minister, who has made a heroic effort to bring her party, Parliament and the Brussels leadership to the brink of a workable deal, but if reports of the latest drafts are to be believed, it is not sellable in Britain."

Today's Cabinet meeting comes ahead of a gathering of EU leaders on Wednesday, at which it was hoped a significant breakthrough on Brexit would be reached.

 

However, the two sides remain at loggerheads over plans to avoid a hard border in Northern Ireland.

 

Both sides are seeking to avoid new physical checks or infrastructure between Northern Ireland and Ireland, but are split over a "backstop" solution that would kick in if no permanent fix can be found.

 

The EU has proposed keeping Northern Ireland in the bloc's customs union and parts of the single market indefinitely, but Mrs May has warned that would threaten the "integrity of our United Kingdom" and is instead pushing a "temporary" UK-wide customs union with the EU.

 

European Council president Donald Tusk on Monday warned that a no-deal Brexit was "closer than ever", as he revealed that the bloc is stepping up its own preparations for the UK crashing out without an withdrawal agreement in place.

 

He said: "We should remain hopeful and determined, as there is good will to continue these talks on both sides.

 

"But at the same time, responsible as we are, we must prepare the EU for a no-deal scenario, which is more likely than ever before."

 

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It looks like there are five possible outcomes. Over the past 18 months the torys have gone full Sam Allardyce and have been time wasting from the first minute.  

 

The first an agreement is made with the EU (looking more remote by the week)

 

Second, no agreement is reached that would leave the UK trading on WTO terms. May acknowledged yesterday this would then be a matter for the house to resolve.

 

Thirdly and fourthly a general election and a people's referendum but these two outcomes can only start once no agreement with the EU has been found.

 

Fifth a unity government but considering the torys can't agree anything between themselves the chances of politicians across all parties looks totally impossible. 

 

The only other nuclear option the torys could bring up is a border poll for Ireland in an attempt to avoid 3 and 4 but I think there are rules about that in the GFA that would need to be followed.

 

This tweet below is telling. Not surprisingly Ruth Davidson and the DUP are using similar language they understand where this is going. It seems to have gone under the radar but the Scottish torys are kicking off they not surprisingly can't support anything that doesn't support a union.

 

By my reckoning 13 Scottish Tory mps and 10 DUP mps plus the ERG is quite a lot. Then you have the pro remain Tory mps ( but they are obviously strongly opposed to a general election) But how would the DUP and Scottish tory mps react if they believe the Torys are deliberately sabotaging the union to get the brexit they want. Would that move them to support a general election. DUP say they will sabotage Mays domestic plans but won't support a general election but things are changing fast. A Tory generic talking head suggested May has this uncanny knack of making any situation worse. 

 

 

The DUP say they are in a ‘battle for the union’. What is interesting is that the battle is with the ‘Conservative an Unionist’ party. The writing is on the wall

 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Denny Crane said:

 

It looks like there are five possible outcomes. Over the past 18 months the torys have gone full Sam Allardyce and have been time wasting from the first minute.  

 

The first an agreement is made with the EU (looking more remote by the week)

 

Second, no agreement is reached that would leave the UK trading on WTO terms. May acknowledged yesterday this would then be a matter for the house to resolve.

 

Thirdly and fourthly a general election and a people's referendum but these two outcomes can only start once no agreement with the EU has been found.

 

Fifth a unity government but considering the torys can't agree anything between themselves the chances of politicians across all parties looks totally impossible. 

 

The only other nuclear option the torys could bring up is a border poll for Ireland in an attempt to avoid 3 and 4 but I think there are rules about that in the GFA that would need to be followed.

 

This tweet below is telling. Not surprisingly Ruth Davidson and the DUP are using similar language they understand where this is going. It seems to have gone under the radar but the Scottish torys are kicking off they not surprisingly can't support anything that doesn't support a union.

 

By my reckoning 13 Scottish Tory mps and 10 DUP mps plus the ERG is quite a lot. Then you have the pro remain Tory mps ( but they are obviously strongly opposed to a general election) But how would the DUP and Scottish tory mps react if they believe the Torys are deliberately sabotaging the union to get the brexit they want. Would that move them to support a general election. DUP say they will sabotage Mays domestic plans but won't support a general election but things are changing fast. A Tory generic talking head suggested May has this uncanny knack of making any situation worse. 

 

 

The DUP say they are in a ‘battle for the union’. What is interesting is that the battle is with the ‘Conservative an Unionist’ party. The writing is on the wall

 

 

 

 

 

Tories tearing each other apart. Great, well down those with the bottle to challe he the status quo,  lets have politics out in the open.

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As predicted about 400 pages ago

and to agree with gnasher, who gets undeserved shit from apparently tolerant liberals for having a different view, don’t ever recall him giving anyone personal abuse but he gets a fair bit,

This is is the destruction of the Conservative Party. It cannot survive this parliamentary term. No way.

Labours moment of tipping will come but at the moment this is all on the Tories.

People have mentioned that the right of the Tory party view the hardship as a price worth paying for UK freedom.

I view this as a price worth paying to bin the Conservative Party.

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4 minutes ago, Anny Road said:

 

As predicted about 400 pages ago

and to agree with gnasher, who gets undeserved shit from apparently tolerant liberals for having a different view, don’t ever recall him giving anyone personal abuse but he gets a fair bit,

This is is the destruction of the Conservative Party. It cannot survive this parliamentary term. No way.

Labours moment of tipping will come but at the moment this is all on the Tories.

People have mentioned that the right of the Tory party view the hardship as a price worth paying for UK freedom.

I view this as a price worth paying to bin the Conservative Party.

The best way to destroy the Tories is bin off Brexit. They stand or fall on being able to deliver a divorce. 

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1 hour ago, Anny Road said:

 

and to agree with gnasher, who gets undeserved shit from apparently tolerant liberals for having a different view, don’t ever recall him giving anyone personal abuse but he gets a fair bit...

Pay closer attention:

On 3/19/2015 at 10:17 PM, Gnasher said:

You are risking a criminal prosecution if you take in a lodger when on benefits you stupid cunt.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Anny Road said:

 

As predicted about 400 pages ago

and to agree with gnasher, who gets undeserved shit from apparently tolerant liberals for having a different view, don’t ever recall him giving anyone personal abuse but he gets a fair bit,

This is is the destruction of the Conservative Party. It cannot survive this parliamentary term. No way.

Labours moment of tipping will come but at the moment this is all on the Tories.

People have mentioned that the right of the Tory party view the hardship as a price worth paying for UK freedom.

I view this as a price worth paying to bin the Conservative Party.

In an alternative universe in which Remain had won 51.9/48.1, the Tories would probably still be tearing themselves apart, but the rest of us wouldn't be faced with the very real prospect of them tanking our economy and slashing our jobs, our pay, our services and our rights.

 

And we could still have nationalised railways and blue passports. 

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3 minutes ago, Mook said:

The tories will probably win the next general election regardless of this mess they've created.

 

Anyone who thinks they are going away anytime soon is living in cloud cuckoo land, England is generally a tory country.

This all day long. You just have to look at loads of middle aged men giving stacks to Labour even though the Tories have been in power for 8 miserable years 

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