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Should the UK remain a member of the EU


Anny Road
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317 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the UK remain a member of the EU

    • Yes
      259
    • No
      58


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Emily Thornberry reiterating that Labour will vote against any deal that doesn't meet the six tests.

https://www.ft.com/content/31653510-b6a6-11e8-b3ef-799c8613f4a1

She also says that Labour will still honour the Referendum result  (boo!) but they wouldn't rush to meet the arbitrary deadline set by the Tories (hooray!).

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1 hour ago, Strontium Dog said:

Labour seemingly more concerned with damaging the government than preventing the disaster of exiting the EU - Barry Gardiner has said today that having a second referendum would be throwing the government a lifeline.

I think this week at conference would be a good time for Labour/Corbyn to nail their colours to the mast and support a people’s vote on Brexit deal/no deal. I don’t expect it to happen but there is a momentum building on this now and I think the time for fence sitting is over.

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1 hour ago, Strontium Dog said:

Labour seemingly more concerned with damaging the government than preventing the disaster of exiting the EU - Barry Gardiner has said today that having a second referendum would be throwing the government a lifeline.

Damaging the Government is a prerequisite to stopping Brexit. 

Leave the Tories in power and we're all getting fucked by the hardest of Brexits; get them out of power and then we can talk.

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1 hour ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Damaging the Government is a prerequisite to stopping Brexit. 

Leave the Tories in power and we're all getting fucked by the hardest of Brexits; get them out of power and then we can talk.

Sorry mate I strongly disagree.  The damage to the country would be irreparable and once out its very difficult to rejoin.  The best way to fuck the Tories is to swing behind a second vote and in all likelihood we will see Brexit stopped. They would rip themselves to shreds 

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26 minutes ago, magicrat said:

Sorry mate I strongly disagree.  The damage to the country would be irreparable and once out its very difficult to rejoin.  The best way to fuck the Tories is to swing behind a second vote and in all likelihood we will see Brexit stopped. They would rip themselves to shreds 

I reckon defeating the Tories is a prerequisite because of the Parliamentary arithmetic.  The #FBPE lot might have banked on a number of Tory "rebels" to actually do some rebelling, but that was never realistic.

It's all in the timing.  If Labour had gone full Remain before a clear majority of the electorate were ready to agree, then they would have alienated too many people, which would have helped the Tories.  I'm hoping that this Conference will see Labour take a stronger line and be a bit cllearer that if the deal doesn't meet the Six Tests, then we stay in the EU.

(The Six Tests are a bit of a clever fudge: they sound like a reasonable approach to Brexit , but the fact is that they are incompatible with leaving the EU. )

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12 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

I reckon defeating the Tories is a prerequisite because of the Parliamentary arithmetic.  The #FBPE lot might have banked on a number of Tory "rebels" to actually do some rebelling, but that was never realistic.

It's all in the timing.  If Labour had gone full Remain before a clear majority of the electorate were ready to agree, then they would have alienated too many people, which would have helped the Tories.  I'm hoping that this Conference will see Labour take a stronger line and be a bit cllearer that if the deal doesn't meet the Six Tests, then we stay in the EU.

(The Six Tests are a bit of a clever fudge: they sound like a reasonable approach to Brexit , but the fact is that they are incompatible with leaving the EU. )

I don't see any master plan at work about taking a stronger line earlier. Tha vast majority of Labour supporters and the PLP are in favour of a peoples vote on the outcome,  It's basically Corbyn that has blocked it imo. Anyway we are entering the endgame and how it ends up is as uncertain as it has ever been . One thing I would say is that it will reflect very badly on Labour if they fail to do all they can to stop a hard Brexit whether not it helps the Tories in some way. Standing by and letting the most vulnerable suffer is mental. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, magicrat said:

I don't see any master plan at work about taking a stronger line earlier. Tha vast majority of Labour supporters and the PLP are in favour of a peoples vote on the outcome,  It's basically Corbyn that has blocked it imo. Anyway we are entering the endgame and how it ends up is as uncertain as it has ever been . One thing I would say is that it will reflect very badly on Labour if they fail to do all they can to stop a hard Brexit whether not it helps the Tories in some way. Standing by and letting the most vulnerable suffer is mental. 

 

 

how are we getting this 2nd vote with the current government? i agree it is time for labour to stop sitting by and giving the tories the free pass they have since the last election, but unless the tory right choose to topple May by fucking her chequers plan (which I don't believe they will because it will provide a platform for a no confidence vote in the government), then May is getting her way providing the EU will play ball - which they will because they need to sign nothing now, the real details can be done during the transition period, once we're already out with no chance of backing out. 

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35 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

I reckon Labour will announce they're pushing for a final say referendum at conference.

Well, that would be an enormous turnaround. I just don’t see it happening.

They should be ashamed of themselves 

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2 hours ago, Barry Wom said:

how are we getting this 2nd vote with the current government? i agree it is time for labour to stop sitting by and giving the tories the free pass they have since the last election, but unless the tory right choose to topple May by fucking her chequers plan (which I don't believe they will because it will provide a platform for a no confidence vote in the government), then May is getting her way providing the EU will play ball - which they will because they need to sign nothing now, the real details can be done during the transition period, once we're already out with no chance of backing out. 

It's a brilliant negotiating position she's worked for herself: her threat to the right wing of her party is "back Chequers or you'll get the No Deal that you sociopathic fuckers want". I'm sure that will get them to fall in line.

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14 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

It's a brilliant negotiating position she's worked for herself: her threat to the right wing of her party is "back Chequers or you'll get the No Deal that you sociopathic fuckers want". I'm sure that will get them to fall in line.

the thing is, take the piss or not, she's proved she is actually the best leader they can get and they know it. how the fuck is she still clinging on? because she knows how to blance the right and left of her party in the backdrop of the minoroty government she is running. she's looked days away from being finished since the last election, but yet she is still holding on and imo, she will be there at the next election. 

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2 hours ago, Barry Wom said:

the thing is, take the piss or not, she's proved she is actually the best leader they can get and they know it. how the fuck is she still clinging on? because she knows how to blance the right and left of her party in the backdrop of the minoroty government she is running. she's looked days away from being finished since the last election, but yet she is still holding on and imo, she will be there at the next election. 

Strong and stable eh 

I think she may get to the end of Brexit with Labour's help but all hell will break loose afterwards and the fat blonde cunt will make his move. 

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12 minutes ago, magicrat said:

Strong and stable eh 

I think she may get to the end of Brexit with Labour's help but all hell will break loose afterwards and the fat blonde cunt will make his move. 

but this is my point - we need to topple the bitch before brexit, but i don't see how that happens while Labour are so passive. 

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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/18/rightwing-thinktanks-unveil-radical-plan-for-us-uk-brexit-trade-deal-nhs

This is what the Brexiteers are waiting for. Kind of pisses on Gnasher's , Anny's and Boss's chips for a socialist utopia as this will be signed sealed and delivered not long after December 2020. 2 years before the next general election.

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22 minutes ago, Barry Wom said:

but this is my point - we need to topple the bitch before brexit, but i don't see how that happens while Labour are so passive. 

Lets see what happens in the next couple of months, It's absolutely impossible to predict how the chips will fall at this stage.  Labour's stance on Brexit is open to shift , the EU are bound to demand further concessions,  Johnson and co may move after the conference as I don't agree MP's rejecting Chequers will lead to the outcome the Brexiteers want. I think it would more likely lead to a second referendum on a no deal exit and a an extension of A60 whilst that happened.

May's "My deal or no deal" soundbite is bollocks . 

22 minutes ago, skend04 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/18/rightwing-thinktanks-unveil-radical-plan-for-us-uk-brexit-trade-deal-nhs

This is what the Brexiteers are waiting for. Kind of pisses on Gnasher's , Anny's and Boss's chips for a socialist utopia as this will be signed sealed and delivered not long after December 2020. 2 years before the next general election.

This has been rumbling for a a number of years.  US politics are in as much turmoil as our own and relying on Trump to deliver so much as a newspaper at this point is wishful thinking.

That said I agree thats its a massive danger and needs to be expososed, 

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46 minutes ago, skend04 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/18/rightwing-thinktanks-unveil-radical-plan-for-us-uk-brexit-trade-deal-nhs

This is what the Brexiteers are waiting for. Kind of pisses on Gnasher's , Anny's and Boss's chips for a socialist utopia as this will be signed sealed and delivered not long after December 2020. 2 years before the next general election.

You mean, Brexit isn’t going to save us from neoliberalism after all?

Crikey! What a plot twist.

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