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Should the UK remain a member of the EU


Anny Road
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317 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the UK remain a member of the EU

    • Yes
      259
    • No
      58


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Jeremy Corbyn generally voted for more EU integration

 

TheyWorkForYou has automatically calculated this MP’s stance based on all of their votes on the topic. You can browse the source data on PublicWhip.org.uk.

 

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10133/jeremy_corbyn/islington_north/divisions?policy=1065

You do understand that my whole point is how he voted/acted up until becoming leader in 2015?

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You've gone from practically impossible to impossible. Either way, nothing to do with the EU, if countries want to go to war they will. It is only practically or totally impossible for EU countries to fight each other whilst in the EU because they democratic.

 

Your example of countries becoming fascist would result in them not being democracies and therefore more likely to wage war.

I've briefly explained the mechanisms that make it practically impossible (or 100% impossible, for Eurozone countries) for Member States to go to war with each other.

 

What are the mechanisms that make it impossible for democracies to go to war with each other?

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Ok, I shall have to change my wording.

 

I believe Corbyn is lying about being a remainer.

 

I reckon if the most recent referendum had happened before he was trying to be leader he would have voted out. I've arrived at this opinion because, before he was leader, the one time he could vote out, he did. As an MP he didnt say he wanted to leave but pretty much every public statement or vote he could cast was anti EU. Proof of this is easy to find. That is how I formed my opinion.

 

I've conceded that he didnt say he wanted to leave, but the evidence shows me that he would have voted out given the chance. Can you show me any evidence that shows you that he would have voted to stay in?

Any evidence other than everything he said and did during the Referendum campaign (which you dismiss as lying)?

 

No. I do not have any evidence that will shake your beliefs. It's clear that no evidence could do that.

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Any evidence other than everything he said and did during the Referendum campaign (which you dismiss as lying)?

 

No. I do not have any evidence that will shake your beliefs. It's clear that no evidence could do that.

The referendum was when he was leader.

 

Do you have any evidence at all? Any? Just a little bit that tells you he was pro europe or even neutral on the subject?

 

I am quite happy to be proved wrong, ive done it before and will do it again, prove me wrong i'll hold my hands up. This isnt life and death for me where i have to be entrenched in a view and cant move. I've tried to engage on Corbyns views/policies on other threads to see if I can vote for him.

 

All I have done is judged him how he was before he was leader to being leader. In my opinion he changed because he wanted to be leader, you wont even accept he had a different view

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I'm claiming that his position on the EU is pretty much as he's always said. (His position as Leader is in no way inconsistent with his words and actions previously.)

 

You're the one making big claims. The onus is on you to provide evidence. You have so far failed to do that.

 

Show me evidence and I'll change my mind.

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I'm claiming that his position on the EU is pretty much as he's always said. (His position as Leader is in no way inconsistent with his words and actions previously.)

 

You're the one making big claims. The onus is on you to provide evidence. You have so far failed to do that.

 

Show me evidence and I'll change my mind.

I think you are deliberately being evasive and a bit silly.

 

The basis of your argument is "I shall ignore the facts presented because you are wrong, i cant prove you are wrong but i dont need to prove you are wrong" 

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Jeremy Corbyn generally voted for more EU integration

 

TheyWorkForYou has automatically calculated this MP’s stance based on all of their votes on the topic. You can browse the source data on PublicWhip.org.uk.

 

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10133/jeremy_corbyn/islington_north/divisions?policy=1065

AoT do you spot a trend pre and post 2015?

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Jeremy Corbyn’s views on Brexit: a long held stance on Europe

JUNE 18, 2018 - 10:25 PM

Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn is both praised and criticised for one of his defining political features: sticking decade after decade to the same political views.

Some people see that as an attribute – sticking with your principles – and others as a flaw – being stuck in the past. Either way, it’s clearly a large part of his political personality.

It’s also the way to understanding his views on Brexit, as those too follow a long-run and consistent approach. He is, in short, a life-long Eurosceptic:

  • Jeremy Corbyn voted for Britain to leave the European Economic Community (EEC) in the 1975 European referendum.
  • Jeremy Corbyn opposed the creation of the European Union (EU) under the Maastricht Treaty – speaking and voting against it in Parliament in 1993. During the 2016 referendum campaign, Left Leave highlighted repeated speeches he made in Parliament opposing Europe during 1993.
  • Jeremy Corbyn voted against the Lisbon Treaty on more than one occasion in Parliament in 2008.
  • In 2010, Jeremy Corbyn voted against the creation of the European Union’s diplomatic service.
  • Jeremy Corbyn voted for a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU in 2011 (breaking the Labour whip to do so).
  • In 2011 Jeremy Corbyn also opposed the creation of the EU’s European Stability Mechanism, which helps members of the Euro in financial difficulties. (This vote is a good example of how Corbyn votes with hardcore Euro-sceptics. Only 26 other MPs joined him in voting against, and in their number are the likes of right-wing Euro-sceptics such as Peter Bone, Douglas Carswell, Bill Cash, Ian Paisley Junior and John Redwood.)
  • Jeremy Corbyn opposed Britain’s participation in the EU’s Banking Authority in 2012.
  • In 2016 his long-time left-wing ally Tariq Ali said that he was sure that if Corbyn was not Labour leader he would be campaigning for Britain to leave the EU, whilst his brother Piers Corbyn also said that Jeremy Corbyn was privately opposed to Britain’s membership of the European Union.
  • Jeremy Corbyn went on holiday during the 2016 referendum campaign and his office staff consistently undermined the Remain campaign. He refused to attend a key Remain campaign launch and also attacked government ministers for publicising the Remain case, saying they should also have promoted arguments in favour of Leave vote. The Director of the Remain campaign, himself a Labour member and candidate, said, “Rather than making a clear and passionate Labour case for EU membership, Corbyn took a week’s holiday in the middle of the campaign and removed pro-EU lines from his speeches”. During the referendum campaign, Leave.EU highlighted Corbyn’s attacks on Europe made in 1996.
  • The day after the European referendum in 2016, Jeremy Corbyn called for the immediate invocation of Article 50 – the two-year notice to leave the EU – much quicker than even Theresa May wanted.
  • In December 2016, Jeremy Corbyn voted in Parliament in favour of the UK leaving the EU and for the process to start no later than 31 March 2017.
  • Jeremy Corbyn three times voted in February 2017 in favour of the Prime Minister starting the process of leaving the European Union.
  • During the 2017 general election, the independent Channel 4 Factcheck service found very little difference between Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May over Europe.
  • In the summer of 2017, Jeremy Corbyn opposed Britain remaining in the Single Market. He even sacked from his team Labour MPs who voted in favour of membership of the Single Market.

As the Labour Leave group wrote in April 2016:

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Corbyn is a well known Eurosceptic, who voted against membership in 1975, voted against the Maastricht Treaty in 1993, and voted against the Lisbon Treaty in 2009.

Given his views he has made a number of strongly anti-EU comments over the years.

 

Surely AoT you can see that the above is not consistent with post 2015. He never said "I want to leave" that is accepted, perhaps he didnt want to be aligned with the likes of Redwood, who knows? However, i am saying he is anti EU and is lying about now wanting to stay. Everything points towards it, can you show anything that counters that pre 2015? No you cant

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I think you are deliberately being evasive and a bit silly.

 

The basis of your argument is "I shall ignore the facts presented because you are wrong, i cant prove you are wrong but i dont need to prove you are wrong"

Not evasive at all. (Silly is a matter of opinion.)

 

Again - all the facts you have presented show that Corbyn has never been happy with the neoliberal drift of the EU. That's been obvious for decades, right through the Referendum campaign and beyond. Nobody denies that.

 

You're claiming something else. You're claiming that he is and has been a closet Brexiteer. You have literally nothing to support that belief.

 

I choose to base my conclusions on the available facts.

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He never said "I want to leave" that is accepted,

At fucking last!

 

His close friends and allies, like Tony Benn and Bob Crow, did say they wanted to leave. I can't see any reason for him never to have said it - not once, in at least 35 years - if he agreed with them.

 

You seem to think he's been maintaining a facade on this one issue - despite being outspoken on so many other issues - for some reason which nobody yet knows. I think this is unlikely.

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At fucking last!

 

His close friends and allies, like Tony Benn and Bob Crow, did say they wanted to leave. I can't see any reason for him never to have said it - not once, in at least 35 years - if he agreed with them.

 

You seem to think he's been maintaining a facade on this one issue - despite being outspoken on so many other issues - for some reason which nobody yet knows. I think this is unlikely.

At fucking last? I said this pages ago.

 

Pre 2015 he was anti EU and only changed his view to become leader

 

Me - The whole basis of what i have been saying has been that the evidence pre 2015 is that he was anti EU and the overwhelming proof of this fact is the one chance he was given to leave he took in the referendum in 1975 by voting out. This is followed by voting against Maastricht, the Lisbon Treaty and for a referendum in 2011. He was known as a euro-sceptic and said nothing in favour of the EU

 

You - He never said he wanted to leave

 

Thats the argument in a nutshell

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"The evidence pre 2015" shows that he opposed the neoliberal drift of the EU.

 

The evidence post-2015 shows that he opposes the neoliberal drift of the EU.

 

I'm not sure when he changed his view.

 

The weird thing is, by stating that he will honour the Brexit vote and by whipping support of Article 50, etc, he's provided much more evidence of wanting to leave the EU since he's been leader than he ever did before.

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Tim Martin of Weatherspoon's and leading Brexiteer and all round horrible cunt on BBC radio 4 today.

 

 "We'll need a significant level of immigration over the next 10, 20, 30 years to keep growing the economy."

 

I guess those pints won't pull themselves unless you have lots of low paid immigrants to do it for him

 

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6 minutes ago, Stickman said:

Tim Martin of Weatherspoon's and leading Brexiteer and all round horrible cunt on BBC radio 4 today.

 

 "We'll need a significant level of immigration over the next 10, 20, 30 years to keep growing the economy."

 

So this is what Brexiteers mean when they say there'll be no change to life after Brexit.

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Dacre, Murdoch, Maxwell, McKenzie- I wonder if in the future this lot will be looked back on as the lead contributors to the state we find ourselves in or they'll be forgotten in time.

 

Only recently did I find out the William Randolph Hearst had campaigned vociferously for the US to fight the Spanish in Cuba and the Philippines in part because he wanted to sell more newspapers and create larger story arcs, this included getting journalists to make up stories about the Spanish actions during their colonial hold on Cuba.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Randolph_Hearst#The_Spanish–American_War

Though the number of people who know about him and the long term effect this had on Cuba and the Philippines must be relatively small in the anglophone world.

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4 hours ago, Stickman said:

Tim Martin of Weatherspoon's and leading Brexiteer and all round horrible cunt on BBC radio 4 today.

 

 "We'll need a significant level of immigration over the next 10, 20, 30 years to keep growing the economy."

 

I guess those pints won't pull themselves unless you have lots of low paid immigrants to do it for him

 

As long as those immigrants don't have any rights, everything will be just dandy.

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