Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[AngryOfTuebrook]

No wars between EU countries is not because they are in the EU its because they are democracies. Democracies dont go to war with eachother, being in NATO also helps.

You don't think that having the structures in place to prevent the causes of war and to make war practically impossible has played any part at all?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

JC wants to leave, everyone knows that!

Yes. Everyone knows that clearly demonstrable fact, which is supported by mountains of evidence.

[Strontium]

The point generally was that an Indian multinational company is less likely to care about the welfare of British workers than a British owned nationalised company. If you can find me a couple of examples of British owned nationalised companies shipping all their workers overseas then i'd concede you have a point, otherwise, sadly, you don't have one. However that's never stopped you in the past.

So just to be clear, you're advocating the nationalisation of car companies now?

 

Jesus.

[A Red]

Yes. Everyone knows that clearly demonstrable fact, which is supported by mountains of evidence.

There are mountains of evidence before he became leader and had to, lets say, suppress that view. Again, show me that he was indeed pro Europe before being leader and that he isnt lying in order to hold his party together. I've asked you this loads of times. You wont though. 

[A Red]

You don't think that having the structures in place to prevent the causes of war and to make war practically impossible has played any part at all?

You have to be a democracy to be in the EU. If and when we leave the EU how much more likely is it that we will have a war with a member state? 

[Numero Veinticinco]

So just to be clear, you're advocating the nationalisation of car companies now?

 

Jesus.

Free Austins for everyone.

[magicrat]

Free Austins for everyone.

 

Don't be silly you would get one of these beauts

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

I can't pretend that I'm happy or agree with Labour's policy on Brexit. But I can understand the concerns on why it might be viewed as a politically risky tactic to challenge Brexit.

 

But, given it's likely damaging effects, it's a disappointment to see that we don't have a single credible political party openly challenging Brexit who the public can get behind and treat seriously.

[skend04]

I can't pretend that I'm happy or agree with Labour's policy on Brexit. But I can understand the concerns on why it might be viewed as a politically risky tactic to challenge Brexit.

 

But, given it's likely damaging effects, it's a disappointment to see that we don't have a single credible political party openly challenging Brexit who the public can get behind and treat seriously.

The political establishment have abandoned 75% of the population and half the electorate. It's an embarrassment is what it is.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

There are mountains of evidence before he became leader and had to, lets say, suppress that view. Again, show me that he was indeed pro Europe before being leader and that he isnt lying in order to hold his party together. I've asked you this loads of times. You wont though.

You are making the claim that Corbyn wants to leave the EU. You haven't found one example (since the 1975 Referendum) of Corbyn advocating leading the EU.

 

It's your claim; the onus is on you to provide evidence.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

You have to be a democracy to be in the EU. If and when we leave the EU how much more likely is it that we will have a war with a member state?

It will go from Impossible to Possible.

 

To be honest, I'm less concerned about the UK than I am about other Member States, in which resurgent Fascist movements are stirring up various tensions. If these countries were not in the EU (a situation that the Fascists and a handful of posters here are advocating) war would quickly become an all-too-real danger.

[Strontium]

I can't pretend that I'm happy or agree with Labour's policy on Brexit. But I can understand the concerns on why it might be viewed as a politically risky tactic to challenge Brexit.

 

But, given it's likely damaging effects, it's a disappointment to see that we don't have a single credible political party openly challenging Brexit who the public can get behind and treat seriously.

Attacking the Lib Dems for Labour's stance on Brexit. Truly inspired.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I can't pretend that I'm happy or agree with Labour's policy on Brexit. But I can understand the concerns on why it might be viewed as a politically risky tactic to challenge Brexit.

 

But, given it's likely damaging effects, it's a disappointment to see that we don't have a single credible political party openly challenging Brexit who the public can get behind and treat seriously.

I'd like to see a significant policy shift at the Conference.

[Strontium]

You are making the claim that Corbyn wants to leave the EU. You haven't found one example (since the 1975 Referendum) of Corbyn advocating leading the EU.

 

It's your claim; the onus is on you to provide evidence.

There's no direct evidence, just circumstantial. The half arsed campaigning for Remain. The refusal to share a platform with previous Labour leaders during the campaign. The odd haste to call for the government to invoke Article 50 the day after the result. So it really depends on how far you trust him.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

There's no direct evidence, just circumstantial. The half arsed campaigning for Remain. The refusal to share a platform with previous Labour leaders during the campaign. The odd haste to call for the government to invoke Article 50 the day after the result. So it really depends on how far you trust him.

You had me at "there's no direct evidence".

 

Former Labour leaders - and the Tories - campaigned for a neoliberal vision of Europe; the very thing that drove people like Tony Benn and Bob Crow (but never Jeremy Corbyn... odd that) to publicly call for the UK to leave the EU. Corbyn campaigned for a more positive vision of Europe and he campaigned at least as successfully as any pro-Remain party leader.

[Boss]

So just to be clear, you're advocating the nationalisation of car companies now?

 

Jesus.

 

No, it'll cost too much. I'm advocating that they shouldn't have been sold in the first place. Pretty self explanatory. Only an imbecile like yourself would try and misconstrue what I said.

[Strontium]

No, it'll cost too much. I'm advocating that they shouldn't have been sold in the first place. Pretty self explanatory. Only an imbecile like yourself would try and misconstrue what I said.

If they hadn't been sold, they'd still be nationalised, wouldn't they. So that's not misconstruing anything.

 

I think the true imbecile is the person who tries to make the argument that the government should be in the car making business, given what happened when it was.

 

This is what happens when dogma trumps real world results.

[Boss]

If they hadn't been sold, they'd still be nationalised, wouldn't they. So that's not misconstruing anything.

 

I think the true imbecile is the person who tries to make the argument that the government should be in the car making business, given what happened when it was.

 

This is what happens when dogma trumps real world results.

 

10,000 people were made redundant when Jaguar was privatised. Real world results, indeed. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Mind you, he's safe from censure as long as he's got the Tories to protect him.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/conservative-meps-hungary-victor-orban-eu-sanctions-far-right-george-soros-a8532356.html

Then again...

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-europe-45498514

[A Red]

It will go from Impossible to Possible.

 

To be honest, I'm less concerned about the UK than I am about other Member States, in which resurgent Fascist movements are stirring up various tensions. If these countries were not in the EU (a situation that the Fascists and a handful of posters here are advocating) war would quickly become an all-too-real danger.

You've gone from practically impossible to impossible. Either way, nothing to do with the EU, if countries want to go to war they will. It is only practically or totally impossible for EU countries to fight each other whilst in the EU because they democratic. 

 

Your example of countries becoming fascist would result in them not being democracies and therefore more likely to wage war.

[A Red]

You are making the claim that Corbyn wants to leave the EU. You haven't found one example (since the 1975 Referendum) of Corbyn advocating leading the EU.

 

It's your claim; the onus is on you to provide evidence.

Ok, I shall have to change my wording.

 

I believe Corbyn is lying about being a remainer.

 

I reckon if the most recent referendum had happened before he was trying to be leader he would have voted out. I've arrived at this opinion because, before he was leader, the one time he could vote out, he did. As an MP he didnt say he wanted to leave but pretty much every public statement or vote he could cast was anti EU. Proof of this is easy to find. That is how I formed my opinion.

 

I've conceded that he didnt say he wanted to leave, but the evidence shows me that he would have voted out given the chance. Can you show me any evidence that shows you that he would have voted to stay in? 

[Strontium]

10,000 people were made redundant when Jaguar was privatised. Real world results, indeed.

It only employed 10,000 people when it was privatised. Would you mind telling me how a car manufacturer can function with zero workers?

[Bobby Hundreds]

I think about 4000 work at jag now. I've got loads of family in there. Thick as shit some of them but earning nearly 40 grand a year. If they lost that job they'd be fucked adjusting to the near minimum wage their lack of skills would get them.

[Barrington Womble]

Let's be honest about it though. Since the referendum, for whatever reason, he's decided to do pretty much as little as possible to prevent May going in the direction she wants.

[Strontium]

I think he's counting on the Tories screwing things up so badly that it will sweep him to power, hence the perfunctory opposition.

 

Quite how allowing the country to go to rack and ruin so you can reap the rewards is ethical, I'm not sure, but no doubt we'll be treated to a robust defence of the tactic until the end of time,