Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[Anny Road]

This idea that we can reform from the inside is bollocks.

It’s not worked so far. We just opt out.

Why be a member of a club when we opt out of its charter

[Scooby Dudek]

I would say that clip confirms the idea of changing the EU from inside not out of it;

 

Defending and expanding the Social chapter

Defending and expanding workers rights across Europe

 

 

A lot easier to do that whilst in the EU than out of the EU 

[Anny Road]

We have been in it to push the other way for 20 odd years

[Anny Road]

Let’s do it ourselves

[Boss]

Reform from within.... what does that even mean?

 

In the last 6 years we've been overruled three times more than any other member state. There have been 56 occasions in the Council of Ministers that Britain has opposed a particular measure being implemented. Guess how many times we stopped those measures being implemented out of those 56 occasions?  Zero. None.

 

When Cameron proposed a reform to give us special status relative to the money we put in, they shot him down. There's so much Bureaucracy at this point, it's impossible to change. Nor do the people at the top want change. 

[magicrat]

Liam Fox downgrading Brexit from "the easiest deal in history" to "can't promise it'll be rosy". If you still back it then I think you're in need of a chat with yourself.

Who would have guessed the brave new world wasn't waiting round the corner ...

Lying .duplicitous, self serving cunt .

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/i-cant-promise-life-will-be-rosy-after-brexit-says-fox-b22w97jt7

Leaving the European Union would not guarantee a rosy economic future for the UK, the international trade secretary Liam Fox has admitted.

In a frank assessment of Britain’s prospects Dr Fox said that fellow 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

We have been in it to push the other way for 20 odd years

We have had UK Governments leading the push for neoliberalism for 35 years.

 

The way to escape neoliberalism in the UK is to elect a UK Government opposed to it. Prior to the Referendum, we hadn't had that choice since the days of Michael Foot.

 

I don't think that there was anything in Labour’s 2017 Manifesto that couldn't have been delivered as a Member State of the EU.

[No2]

I was coming through Faro airport last week when the family behind me started talking about this being their last time to use the EU gates. It was sad to listen to, their tone was as if they were referring to a dying relative, a relative passing on when they could easily be saved.

 

The 2 kids looked to be around 17 or 18 so to young to have had a vote at the time. They are also at an age where they haven't ever had to cross a border in their own country controlled by armed soldiers. They haven't been ordered to open their boot with a rifle pointed at you. Make no mistake there are enough nut jobs left in Northern Ireland only itching to start fighting again. The UK government couldn't be any clearer about the amount of shits they give. Still next time they go through Faro they could have new navy passports, they can look at them in awe as they queue for god knows how long.

[Anny Road]

Let’s give up our democratic rights so we don’t have to queue at Benidorm airport.

 

The EU killed republicanism in Ireland is a new one.

[No2]

Let’s give up our democratic rights so we don’t have to queue at Benidorm airport.

 

The EU killed republicanism in Ireland is a new one.

Nice twist on words there.

 

The good Friday agreement gives everyone born in Northern Ireland the right to consider themselves British or Irish or both. Those that choose Irish are having their EU rights removed from them therefore they can't be considered Irish in a meaningful way as they will no longer have any of the same rights and as off today don't know how they will be able to access the country the good Friday agreement states they are from.

[Anny Road]

Nice twist on words there.

The good Friday agreement gives everyone born in Northern Ireland the right to consider themselves British or Irish or both. Those that choose Irish are having their EU rights removed from them therefore they can't be considered Irish in a meaningful way as they will no longer have any of the same rights and as off today don't know how they will be able to access the country the good Friday agreement states they are from.

That’s called living in a democracy. Not getting your own way does not give a person the right to bear arms.

[No2]

That’s called living in a democracy. Not getting your own way does not give a person the right to bear arms.

Who said it did?

[Anny Road]

I

Who said it did?

If a border is to be imposed it will be done so at the behest of the EU. Not the UK.

Let them police it.

[skend04]

Got to laugh at the irony of the 'socialists' on here with an unwavering support for a right wing takeover/coup of the country.

 

The police are even tidying up plans for the army to be deployed on the streets when the shit inevitably hits the fans. The Tories will declare martial law and the Lexit brigade will be sat there stroking their goatees wondering what has happened when it was all looking like a Labour government on paper.

[Anny Road]

Or we all wake up and fuck all is different.

[skend04]

Or we all wake up and fuck all is different.

If fuck all is different then we haven't left the EU. If we leave the EU then it'll be very different.

[No2]

IIf a border is to be imposed it will be done so at the behest of the EU. Not the UK.

Let them police it.

There is no "IF". Northern Ireland borders the EU, a border is guaranteed without a deal.

 

What your suggesting is the UK leaving their border open for a free for all. Some control that.

[Anny Road]

There is no "IF". Northern Ireland borders the EU, a border is guaranteed without a deal.

What your suggesting is the UK leaving their border open for a free for all. Some control that.

Border could be on the mainland, virtual etc etc.

Hard Irish border will be at the EU’s wish. No one else’s.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Reform from within.... what does that even mean?

 

In the last 6 years we've been overruled three times more than any other member state. There have been 56 occasions in the Council of Ministers that Britain has opposed a particular measure being implemented. Guess how many times we stopped those measures being implemented out of those 56 occasions? Zero. None.

 

When Cameron proposed a reform to give us special status relative to the money we put in, they shot him down. There's so much Bureaucracy at this point, it's impossible to change. Nor do the people at the top want change.

Reform means that when the EU heads of government or the Council of Ministers get together they reach an agreement; if the UK sends skilled negotiatiors, they can steer this in a direction which suits the agenda of the UK Government. The Thatcher regime was very successful in this regard.

 

As for these times the UK failed to overturn EU decisions, do we know what they were about? Were they about issues that would benefit UK workers, or where they attempts to further neoliberalism (like when George Osborne wasted our public money on a failed legal bid to prevent other Member States from imposing a Financial Transactions Tax)?

[No2]

Border could be on the mainland, virtual etc etc.

Hard Irish border will be at the EU’s wish. No one else’s.

As I suspected you don't have a clue or give a shit about the north.

 

Mainland border or one in the sea is not going to happen,EVER. Whatever about Republicans not accepting a border with the South the loyalists accepting a border that separates Belfast from her royal majesty is a recipe for civil war.

[A Red]

I see why you don’t want to go over that argument again.

 

To summarise.

You - "Corbyn is a Brexit supporter."

Me - "Has he ever, once, in the 35 years that he's been an MP, said that he thinks the UK should leave the EU?"

You - "Well, no... but..."

Lets concentrate on his parliamentary career, before he was leader, forget the times he voted against closer membership, forget he voted out in the referendum, can you find 1 statement by him saying he wanted to stay in the EU?

 

(Yeah i know, we've done this one before)

[Anny Road]

As I suspected you don't have a clue or give a shit about the north.

Mainland border or one in the sea is not going to happen,EVER. Whatever about Republicans not accepting a border with the South the loyalists accepting a border that separates Belfast from her royal majesty is a recipe for civil war.

I do give a shit. Many family members in Sligo.

Ireland needs to sort its shit out. The democratic process cannot be held to ransom by bullshit.

They cannot even form a legislative to govern themselves.

[No2]

I do give a shit. Many family members in Sligo.

Ireland needs to sort its shit out. The democratic process cannot be held to ransom by bullshit.

They cannot even form a legislative to govern themselves.

Ireland needs to sort it's shit out? What are you on about? Who is holding anyone to ransom?

 

The UK voted for this, it's on them to sort it out. The reason the border hasn't been sorted is because it can't be sorted. There is no solution.

 

BTW they don't want to govern themselves, the unionist majority are living in a wet dream being governed from London.

[mattyq]

Border could be on the mainland, virtual etc etc.

Hard Irish border will be at the EU’s wish. No one else’s.

Dunno why you don't understand this... it's not complex

If we leave without an agreement there will be a hard border between NI and Ireland in direct contravention of the Good Friday Agreement.

There has to be a hard border on the UK side as we'd be in breach of WTO rules without one and also have no control on an international border which means people, drugs, contraband... anything could come through without any control and seeing as control of our borders was the Brexit dickheads biggest wish...

Also, the EU/Ireland would have to set on up as there'd be a border on an external entity with no customs, duties etc in common

[AngryOfTuebrook]

IIf a border is to be imposed it will be done so at the behest of the EU. Not the UK.

Let them police it.

I'll let you be the one to explain to the 51.9% that the UK isn't going to take control of its borders after all.

 

The EU will, quite rightly, concern themselves with who and what goes into the EU. They won't give a fuck about who or what goes from the EU into the UK.