Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[magicrat]

Jesus this is tough.

 

Do you think negotiations with the EU will be easier before or after several years of hostile litigation?

Indeed but the real point is any settlement going to be paid in instalments over many years not in a lump sum. The question of the EU trousering the dosh and then telling us to fuck off doesn't arise

[Jack the Sipper]

If it wasn’t leverage then why would the EU just agree to discuss it whilst or after the trade deal then? It really is simple. I can’t understand how you are failing to see that. Also why wouldn’t the UK have just agreed a figure?

 

All I’m seeing again is the same old nonsense. “We will lose credibility.” With who exactly? We are left to negotiate with the EU anyway and they want us to fail so why give them 50bn to just do what they’re going to do anyway? The rest of the world aren’t going to give a shit that we didn’t pay the EU 50bn into a budget that has no impact on them. Again just complete nonsense. They will want to negotiate a trade deal that will benefit their country. They’re not going to say “we aren’t taking you’re money you didn’t settle a bill with the EU.” Do you realise how stupid that sounds?

 

Any major business here is going to reconsider its position here because we are leaving the EU. It will have nothing to do with us paying the Brexit bill. You’re just muddying the waters on the specific point.

 

Any nation that we're looking to sign new trade deals with will give a shit that we pulled out of our trade deal with the EU and didn't pay up what we owed because, well, no court could enforce payment (even if that were true). I'd imagine most big business looking to invest here would also baulk at our second-hand car dealer fuck you attitude to legally binding deals, as would the banks that we still borrow billions from every year.

 

Look at it on a personal level - would you be happy to enter into a financial partnership with an organisation that you knew had just pulled out of a previous financial partnership with another party and left that party to pay the bills that the organisation you were looking to deal with had previously agreed to pay?

 

How could you be sure that they wouldn't tell you to fuck off and pay their bills once they decided they could get a better deal elsewhere? And if you couldn't be sure, why would you enter into a deal with them?

[Anubis]

James Ball‏Verified account @jamesrbuk 2h2 hours ago

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David Davis: I’ve done all my homework in excruciating detail … Davis: …but, er, the dog ate it … Davis: Okay it’s more of a summary … Davis: I have not done my homework and it would have been wrong of me to do the homework

[Anubis]

My understanding is that this 'divorce' bill is nothing more than us being expected to meet our EU obligations that we've committed to up until the date we leave, as you'd be expected to do of any society you are a member of, and that continued access to the customs union and single market will require further regular payments.

 

I suppose you could use the payment as a negotiating tool for a trade deal, but if you were the EU, if you were faced with someone dicking you about over their existing obligations, why would you contemplate giving them future access not knowing if they'd meet the payments, or constantly trying to renegotiate the payments for doing so?

[deiseach]

I suppose you could use the payment as a negotiating tool for a trade deal, but if you were the EU, if you were faced with someone dicking you about over their existing obligations, why would you contemplate giving them future access not knowing if they'd meet the payments, or constantly trying to renegotiate the payments for doing so?

 

Every Brexiteer is convinced that the EU is bluffing. If the EU digs in on something, it's a sign they are bluffing. If the EU agrees to something, it's a sign they are bluffing. This is why the UK agreed to the sequencing proposed by the EU, something David Davis had said would be 'the row of the summer' then accepted on the first day of negotiations. Fine, we'll agree to it now because you will fold later. Should happen any day now . . . 

[magicrat]

 

I suppose you could use the payment as a negotiating tool for a trade deal, but if you were the EU, if you were faced with someone dicking you about over their existing obligations, why would you contemplate giving them future access not knowing if they'd meet the payments, or constantly trying to renegotiate the payments for doing so?

 

However they dress it up it is effectively payment in instalments for a trade deal

[The Guest]

Any nation that we're looking to sign new trade deals with will give a shit that we pulled out of our trade deal with the EU and didn't pay up what we owed because, well, no court could enforce payment (even if that were true). I'd imagine most big business looking to invest here would also baulk at our second-hand car dealer fuck you attitude to legally binding deals, as would the banks that we still borrow billions from every year.

 

Look at it on a personal level - would you be happy to enter into a financial partnership with an organisation that you knew had just pulled out of a previous financial partnership with another party and left that party to pay the bills that the organisation you were looking to deal with had previously agreed to pay?

 

How could you be sure that they wouldn't tell you to fuck off and pay their bills once they decided they could get a better deal elsewhere? And if you couldn't be sure, why would you enter into a deal with them?

More of these fucking stupid analogies. You’ve somehow managed to confuse the UK refusing pay their share of EU budget for the next few years because we are leaving with a trade deal. The whole post is completely baffling and it makes you appear like a complete idiot. If a new country enters into a trade deal with us that is not the same as becoming a member of the EU.

 

All that happens in a trade deal is that you agree what tariffs or quotas (hopefully none) that each side will place on each other. We generally import more than we export so countries will be more than happy to take out money because we are growing their economy. They are not going to give a shite about us not paying some agreed budget amount to an organisation they aren’t part of and as far as I’m aware we aren’t joining another EU type organisation where countries have to worry about our previous behaviour involved in them. I can’t believe I’m actually having to type this out.

[cloggypop]

However they dress it up it is effectively payment in instalments for a trade deal

No. That comes after this is agreed.

 

Any deal offered will still be better than no deal though.

[Anny Road]

No. That comes after this is agreed.

Any deal offered will still be better than no deal though.

Nothing is signed off till everything is done and dusted. It will be an agreement in principle on a figure.

[The Guest]

My understanding is that this 'divorce' bill is nothing more than us being expected to meet our EU obligations that we've committed to up until the date we leave, as you'd be expected to do of any society you are a member of, and that continued access to the customs union and single market will require further regular payments.

 

I suppose you could use the payment as a negotiating tool for a trade deal, but if you were the EU, if you were faced with someone dicking you about over their existing obligations, why would you contemplate giving them future access not knowing if they'd meet the payments, or constantly trying to renegotiate the payments for doing so?

I think you’re right Anubis. From their point of view they will be thinking who do these cunts think they are. They agreed to this budget so they should pay their share. On top of this though I don’t think they’ve got any intention of giving us access to the single market. I think the UK govt knows that as well. If they did they would just say okay the Brexit bill is this and on top of that the access to the single market is going to cost you this. Instead they have outright refused to talk about it. That’s because they want the Brexit bill paid before they tell us to fuck off regarding trade and that’s the reason the UK hasn’t agreed it.

 

In terms of them being worried about dicking about etc the EU easily just say your payments to access the single market are up front.

 

The EU wants the UK to fail and there is less chance of that happening if we get access to the single market. They do not want us making a success out of it as it will encourage others to leave.

[Rico1304]

Can someone remind me why there’s cuss when out credit rating goes down?

[Jack the Sipper]

More of these fucking stupid analogies. You’ve somehow managed to confuse the UK refusing pay their share of EU budget for the next few years because we are leaving with a trade deal. The whole post is completely baffling and it makes you appear like a complete idiot. If a new country enters into a trade deal with us that is not the same as becoming a member of the EU.

 

All that happens in a trade deal is that you agree what tariffs or quotas (hopefully none) that each side will place on each other. We generally import more than we export so countries will be more than happy to take out money because we are growing their economy. They are not going to give a shite about us not paying some agreed budget amount to an organisation they aren’t part of and as far as I’m aware we aren’t joining another EU type organisation where countries have to worry about our previous behaviour involved in them. I can’t believe I’m actually having to type this out.

 

I never suggested it was. But you must be a special kind of stupid if you think that us welshing on agreed payments with one body (the EU) on the basis that no-one can make us pay up isn't going to impact on any other body considering dealing with us. 

 

Trust might not count for much in your little world, but it would to people who are negotiating deals involving billions of pounds and the stability of their nations or corporations. And why would they trust us if we do as you think we should?

[The Guest]

I never suggested it was. But you must be a special kind of stupid if you think that us welshing on agreed payments with one body (the EU) on the basis that no-one can make us pay up isn't going to impact on any other body considering dealing with us.

 

Trust might not count for much in your little world, but it would to people who are negotiating deals involving billions of pounds and the stability of their nations or corporations. And why would they trust us if we do as you think we should?

Your post is an absolute car crash mate. Seriously go back and read it. We are exiting the EU not a trade deal. The thing I’m suggesting to not pay has got fuck all to do with a future trade deal with a non-EU country. If we sign a trade deal with one of these countries it will have mutually beneficial rules. If we were to back out on them and start trying to charge tax on imports they would just respond in kind and tax their goods or set quotas. I don’t understand how you are mixing up the EU agreed budget with a trade deal. These countries have the chance to access the UK’s import industry which will make them money. They aren’t going to turn that down because the UK didn’t pay into a budget or some organisation they’ve got no part of.

[Anny Road]

A trade deal does not have future spending commitments and therefore no capital liabilities for either party.

[Fugitive]

We are proper fucked.

[The Guest]

We are proper fucked.

This is without doubt.

[Jack the Sipper]

Your post is an absolute car crash mate. Seriously go back and read it. We are exiting the EU not a trade deal. The thing I’m suggesting to not pay has got fuck all to do with a future trade deal with a non-EU country. If we sign a trade deal with one of these countries it will have mutually beneficial rules. If we were to back out on them and start trying to charge tax on imports they would just respond in kind and tax their goods or set quotas. I don’t understand how you are mixing up the EU agreed budget with a trade deal. These countries have the chance to access the UK’s import industry which will make them money. They aren’t going to turn that down because the UK didn’t pay into a budget or some organisation they’ve got no part of.

 

You might try reading back my posts before responding as you did. I only wish I'd read through all your posts on is before I bothered trying to engage in debate with someone who hasn't the first clue about/ regard for the concept of trust and reputation.

[The Guest]

You might try reading back my posts before responding as you did. I only wish I'd read through all your posts on is before I bothered trying to engage in debate with someone who hasn't the first clue about/ regard for the concept of trust and reputation.

Fucking comical. I’ll add that to a list of the reasons why we should pay the Brexit bill. Come back when you’ve read a book on economics mate.

[Rico1304]

Fucking comical. I’ll add that to a list of the reasons why we should pay the Brexit bill. Come back when you’ve read a book on economics mate.

Our credit rating and ability to borrow? Been pointed out several times.

[The Guest]

Our credit rating and ability to borrow? Been pointed out several times.

I could have sworn he wrote the concept of trust and reputation. Maybe I’m wrong though. Do you want me to post a link to the LFC official site and tell you it’s an article on the leasehold scandal to prove he said it?

[skend04]

Hammond confirms to committee that the UK will pay what it owed regardless of whether or not the UK gets a trade deal.

 

Also confirms that the government haven't discussed what kind of deal it wants and that the costs of a no deal will dwarf the money owed to the EU.

 

Erm, I thought we were paying having had assurances about trade. Quick, someone phone Phil. He's not speaking off the provided script.

[Rico1304]

I could have sworn he wrote the concept of trust and reputation. Maybe I’m wrong though. Do you want me to post a link to the LFC official site and tell you it’s an article on the leasehold scandal to prove he said it?

I mentioned credit rating, reputation has a bearing. So?

 

Do you think not paying will have a negative impact on our credit rating and ability to borrow?

[The Guest]

I mentioned credit rating, reputation has a bearing. So?

 

Do you think not paying will have a negative impact on our credit rating and ability to borrow?

I’m not sure, you tell me? I’m sure our ability to pay anything we loan back is more important.

 

That’s wasnt my point though and hasn’t been. You know the one you keep skirting around and changing the subject on. I’ve no doubt the UK will be massively damaged economically by leaving the EU. I’m not a leaver. I’ve kept you off hide Rico because I thought you were less tedious than some of the people I’ve got on hide but you’ll know why if you don’t get any responses in future.

[Rico1304]

I’m not sure, you tell me? I’m sure our ability to pay anything we loan back is more important.

 

That’s wasnt my point though and hasn’t been. You know the one you keep skirting around and changing the subject on. I’ve no doubt the UK will be massively damaged economically by leaving the EU. I’m not a leaver. I’ve kept you off hide Rico because I thought you were less tedious than some of the people I’ve got on hide but you’ll know why if you don’t get any responses in future.

Are you mental? This morning I was ‘a boring Tory who writes nonsense’.

[Gym Beglin]

 

Meanwhile, before Parliamentary Committee, David Davies is busy telling us how the government don't actually have any Brexit assessments, only some data which may be useful and which they've turned into a report. Shockingly, they have not actually carried out any detailed assessments for the impact of Brexit, despite what they've previously said in Parliament. He's basically coughed to lying to the house. Colour me surprised.

 

 

 

And this is true of the Conservative government who offered the people of Britain a vote on something that they had done no research into regarding how it would affect the economic wellbeing of the country, or even IF leaving the EU was even a legitimate outcome. 

 

After all, like a car left in a field for 44 years, a lot of grass and vegetation grows around it and the car gets rusted to fuck.  That is the simplified extent to which we have come to rely on EU law and neglect our own.