Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[VladimirIlyich]

A lot of Asians I know think the system is unfair and imo they have a point. Why should a fully qualified nurse/doctor from the outside Europe face stringent checks and delays whilst an unemployed labourer from Europe walks straight in?

And you cannot see why?

Skilled people need to be paid more while unskilled workers will just take any job and be forced to work for lower wages than the residents. What do you think the rich want more of?

[Barrington Womble]

Hitchin is spot on there rather surprisingly. I've said for years, we need to scrap 1st past the post as it breeds a politics that appeals to the twats in the swing seats and nowhere else.

[Barrington Womble]

It appears half the shadow cabinet will resign today after Hillary Benn was sacked. What a fucking mess we're heading towards. Inside 2 months this country will have no government and no opposition. What a mess.

[Gnasher]

So what you're saying is you want more immigration?

 

Interesting.

If the economic climate is right and hospitals etc need positions filling, why not?

[Gnasher]

And you cannot see why?

Skilled people need to be paid more while unskilled workers will just take any job and be forced to work for lower wages than the residents. What do you think the rich want more of?

I agree.

[Brownie]

If the economic climate is right and hospitals etc need positions filling, why not?

I'd love to see you saying that at a Leave rally.

[Gnasher]

I'd love to see you saying that at a Leave rally.

Well the other side of the coin is free movement is an easy get out for big institutions throughout Europe to neglect the time and money it costs training a future skilled workforce by simply importing the labour they need itself. 16 million youth unemployment tells it's own story.

[Gnasher]

People crying over investment bankers from Morgan Stanley losing their jobs? If they would have printed that scenario on the ballot paper leave would've probably won by 95%.

[Section_31]

I wish I could hold my head up high and stick my chest out and brag about what a great nation we are...

But you need only walk through most town centres or observe the incredulous postings on Facebook to get a real glimpse of the underbelly of this nation. It's a mess.

Some will say I'm doing us down, not being very patriotic etc, but it's precisely the opposite (at least in my mind it is). I give a shit, and it really seems like plenty don't. The only time many seem motivated is to give someone a 'political kicking' regardless of who or why.

'Fucking Germans', 'Fucking Poles', 'Fucking Pakis'.

 

Our problem isn't them - it's 'Fucking Brits' to use their parlance.

Been that way for years though hasn't it, that's the problem, now it's finally popped.

 

The English riots were the first shot across the bow and what became of that? Just a few teenagers got banged up for 18 years for stealing trainers.

 

Osborne and Cameron allegedly said they wouldn't build any more council houses because it created labour voters, so what becomes of the people who can't afford a house? That's what they mean by social engineering.

 

New labour carried it on with aplomb by sending every young person in the country to uni and making education a commodity, now wetherpoons is jam packed with bar staff who studied music and song lyrics at college.

 

The media perpetuated the X factor generation of believing you didn't need to work hard to get by, you just needed to be overconfident and wait for your big break.

 

The county is absolutely falling apart when you lift the bonnet.

 

A 10 year old secondary school near us had to close but the council has a 100 year lease on the building because it's pfi, so they can't mothball or sell it. There's smatterings of housing associations staff wandering around its halls instead.

 

Also. Look at the only buildings going up in Liverpool City Centre, they're all student flats aimed at the student dollar. And what's that? Debt.

 

The fundamental problem since the late 70s has been the man in the street has no money. New labour dealt with that with this weird smoke and mirrors house price and debt economy and It went tits up, rather than correct it we're back again.

 

In 2008 when we realised that we should have gone back to the drawing board. But that would have meant less for the ruling class, so the did what they always do - they banked hard right.

 

The media was hollowed out, right wingers gained ground and we were turned against each other. Both in the states and here. This will all end in mass unrest, probably across the whole western world. Even uneducated people realise when they've got nothing to lose.

 

[deiseach]

I'm coming around to the belief that Brexit is not going to happen, and it won't be the Remain camp with their rather pathetic online petitions who are going to prevent it - it will be the Leave camp. There simply isn't a beast big enough to pull it off. This sums it all up (h/t):

 

[Barrington Womble]

People crying over investment bankers from Morgan Stanley losing their jobs? If they would have printed that scenario on the ballot paper leave would've probably won by 95%.

Except it's not the investment bankers is it. It's the support staff, admin staff and all the others who just do regular jobs and struggle to make ends meet. For every 7 figure banker, there are thousands of ordinary workers.

[kelster]

People crying over investment bankers from Morgan Stanley losing their jobs? If they would have printed that scenario on the ballot paper leave would've probably won by 95%.

 

Are they actually losing their jobs or are they just going to be relocated to Paris/Dublin/Frankfurt? If it is just relocation then if you are into the politics of jealousy it is rather a Pyrrhic victory as any tax receipts from salary or profits they generate will be going abroad. It will eventually have a knock-on.

[Paul]

Hitchin is spot on there rather surprisingly. I've said for years, we need to scrap 1st past the post as it breeds a politics that appeals to the twats in the swing seats and nowhere else.

Yep. FPTP was a massive factor in this referendum: more than half the voters simply wanted to get a big fucking dig in on the establishment nose while the cuffs were off.

[Dicko]

Ah so no brexit, no closing of the borders and no self determination.

But we'll have a nice shiny new constitution put together by an ultra rightwing Tory government That'll destroy the human rights act and working time directive.

 

Unopposed because the Lib Dems are irrelevant and the Labour party are disintegrating before our eyes.

 

Again well done to the people that voted UKIP last year and out this year because you felt 'disenfranchised.'

[Cardie]

Ah so no brexit, no closing of the borders and no self determination.

But we'll have a nice shiny new constitution put together by an ultra rightwing Tory government That'll destroy the human rights act and working time directive.

 

Unopposed because the Lib Dems are irrelevant and the Labour party are disintegrating before our eyes.

 

Again well done to the people that voted UKIP last year and out this year because you felt 'disenfranchised.'

 

We'll see how disenfranchised they can really feel when they're living under a bridge pissing on each other for warmth.

[Cardie]

Epic back tracking on the Andrew Marr show by Ian Duncan Smith.

 

We never promised 350 million would go to the NHS, what we said was a proportion of the money we don't get back from the EU will go towards the NHS as well as other things.

 

Oh really?

[Gnasher]

Are they actually losing their jobs or are they just going to be relocated to Paris/Dublin/Frankfurt? If it is just relocation then if you are into the politics of jealousy it is rather a Pyrrhic victory as any tax receipts from salary or profits they generate will be going abroad. It will eventually have a knock-on.

"tax receipts" from Morgan Stanley you say.

 

That'll amount to the square root of fuck all then,

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/dec/22/anger-at-city-banks-paying-little-or-no-corporation-tax

[kalasoma]

IDS has said this morning that the 350M that would go to NHS is actually not going to happen.

 

Despite the poster that says the exact opposite

 

[kalasoma]

Epic back tracking on the Andrew Marr show by Ian Duncan Smith.

 

We never promised 350 million would go to the NHS, what we said was a proportion of the money we don't get back from the EU will go towards the NHS as well as other things.

 

Oh really?

 

With video evidence, posters and a massive great big bus. I guess the bus only suggests the distribution of millions back from the EU to the NHS, but the posters are definitely clear, even if IDS, Farage and Disappearing Dan Hannan say otherwise.

[jimmycase]

People crying over investment bankers from Morgan Stanley losing their jobs? If they would have printed that scenario on the ballot paper leave would've probably won by 95%.

 

Well if they are, they're crying over nothing. MS have clearly stated the report on the BBC about moving 2000 jobs to dublin or frankfurt is false. This was directly quoted. There was no quote of 'in the immediate future' like cardie was suggesting as fact.

 

Anyone and everyone who works in financials knows how volatile the sector is especially in London. Financials dump people all the time then take people back on. That's not hearsay like some of the stuff spouted on here, I actually contract in the Financial Sector and I see it on a regular basis.

 

MS and other banks will release people before the year is out, I'll guarantee that. But, that doesnt mean when they do, its solely because of leaving the EU.

[Cardie]

Well if they are, they're crying over nothing. MS have clearly stated the report on the BBC about moving 2000 jobs to dublin or frankfurt is false. This was directly quoted. There was no quote of 'in the immediate future' like cardie was suggesting as fact.

 

Anyone and everyone who works in financials knows how volatile the sector is especially in London. Financials dump people all the time then take people back on. That's not hearsay like some of the stuff spouted on here, I actually contract in the Financial Sector and I see it on a regular basis.

 

MS and other banks will release people before the year is out, I'll guarantee that. But, that doesnt mean when they do, its solely because of leaving the EU.

 

In the Immediate future?

 

As I quoted from people from Morgan Stanley the indication is they will wait to see what the outcome of the negotiations are before making a final decision.

[Section_31]

Anyone get the feeling the leave camp sans farage are all shitting themselves, like they didn't expect to win?

[Jairzinho]

Anyone get the feeling the leave camp sans farage are all shitting themselves, like they didn't expect to win?

 

This is going to be an enormous clusterfuck. The keys to the country have been handed from reasonably incompetent cunts to full blown turbo spastics.

[jimmycase]

In the Immediate future?

 

As I quoted from people from Morgan Stanley the indication is they will wait to see what the outcome of the negotiations are before making a final decision.

 

No, in the use of the word 'immediate' you didnt quote anyone from MS because no one from MS used the word.

 

Yes, you attributed an unquoted use of the word 'immediate' as being factual and accurate as relating to the MS quote that the rumours of moving 2000 jobs was 'totally false.'

[kelster]

"tax receipts" from Morgan Stanley you say.

 

That'll amount to the square root of fuck all then,

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/dec/22/anger-at-city-banks-paying-little-or-no-corporation-tax

 

I did say salary and profits. Let me just check back on that. Oh yes I did. And as income tax and NI collected by the government is 4 times that of business rates and corporation tax, then it's not quite the square root of fuck all.