Moneyball signings v Rodgers signings?

[Gnasher]

 

Not sure who signs the players these days with this funnyball thing, but I'll have a go at guessing. My basic interpretation of moneyballl is moving on older players on big contacts and replacing them with younger players on less wages who's value will hold or increase with time.

 

Borini... Rodgers

Allen... Rodgers

Assaidi... Funnyball

 

Sturidge... Both

 

Aspas.. Moneyballl

Alberto.. Moneyball

Mingnolet.... Rodgers

Sahko... Moneyballl

Illori... Moneyballl

 

Can.... Moneyballl

Lambert.. Rodgers

Lovren.... Rodgers

Lallana... Rodgers

Moreno... Rodgers

Manquillo.... Moneyballl

Markovic.... Moneyballl

 

Players out...

 

Almost all main players out, Carrol, Dowing, Shelvey, Agger were imo Rodgers bar Suarez who was determined to leave.

 

Hope that clears it up.

[J-V]

Coutinho - Moneyballs

 

I wouldn't necessarily say Moreno waa a Rodgwrs signing either.

[Major Tom]

I'm not sure many players are forced upon Rodgers.

 

He'd have the final say, so I think they are all Rodgers signings.

[Gnasher]

Coutinho - Moneyballs

I wouldn't necessarily say Moreno waa a Rodgwrs signing either.

I knew i missed someone out, that's fucked it now. Yes, Courtinio moneyballl. I wasn't sure on Moreno, was going to put both but as Ayre seemed determined to get him and Rodgers seemingly unhappy with the left back slot i went for Rodgers.

[Barnesey]

The idea behind Moneyball is you get better value on the pitch for every pound spent. In the original baseball context, it involved getting three hitters who would score 50 home runs for less money than the big name guy who'd score 30.

 

However, it will always involve someone somewhere making a judgement about a players ability and I'd be amazed if Rodgers wasn't very much responsible (if not exclusively) for all the comings and goings.

[Gnasher]

I'm not sure many players are forced upon Rodgers.

 

He'd have the final say, so I think they are all Rodgers signings.

Not so sure on that, I'd bet Rodgers did not pick Sahko and Illori to name two.

[Major Tom]

I knew i missed someone out, that's fucked it now. Yes, Courtinio moneyballl. I wasn't sure on Moreno, was going to put both but as Ayre seemed determined to get him and Rodgers seemingly unhappy with the left back slot i went for Rodgers.

 

Ayre won't be deciding on players. That's absurd. Blokes with the business acumen of Henry and co won't be putting footballing decisions in the hands of another businessman.

 

Rodgers will be having the final say on all players because a) it makes sense; and b ) I'm not sure he'd have it any other way.

[Major Tom]

Not so sure on that, I'd bet Rodgers did not pick Sahko and Illori to name two.

 

So, who's picking them, then? Genuinely.

[xerxes]

The Southampton signings are the interesting ones.

 

Have we bought talent that will improve further? Or have we bought players who were playing out of their skin under a system?

[Major Tom]

The Southampton signings are the interesting ones.

 

Have we bought talent that will improve further? Or have we bought players who were playing out of their skin under a system?

 

They are not mutually exclusive things.

[Denny Crane]

I think the who bought who is just silly, Liverpool bought the players end of. Rodgers has a huge influence and since he has been here 25 players have come in. This is his squad. He made a big song and dance about having plenty of influence in his early days, so I have no reason to think he is not responsible for the squad.

 

If you go down that route, do you start saying Rodgers wanted Williams instead of Sakho, Dempsey instead of Sturridge etc.

[Grinch]

No players are signed without his say so.  Would this thread exist if he didn't make a pigs ear of every summer transfer window?

 

Tbf his hands are tied behind his back when we won't pay the wages to attract top quality. 

[Major Tom]

No players are signed without his say so.  Would this thread exist if he didn't make a pigs ear of every summer transfer window?

 

Tbf his hands are tied behind his back when we won't pay the wages to attract top quality. 

 

Your last sentence is right.

 

But as far as your pig's ear is concerned, who would you have bought this summer? Where did Rodgers go wrong?

[xerxes]

Ayre won't be deciding on players. That's absurd. Blokes with the business acumen of Henry and co won't be putting footballing decisions in the hands of another businessman.

 

Rodgers will be having the final say on all players because a) it makes sense; and b ) I'm not sure he'd have it any other way.

I’ve always thought the idea of “the final say” for any football manager is a myth.

 

If the club’s finances dictate it, any player will be sold for the right money. And given that the average player’s contract is three years, but the average PL managers lifespan is eighteen months, I can imagine situations where a player is bought who the manager did not need there and then.

 

Most mangers will always buy another player, if they are allowed to, and forget their supposed coaching skills when a player doesn’t arrive and hit the ground running.

 

I think the idea that business men always make bad football decisions and football managers always make good ones is flawed ( as is the reverse assumption). KK is one of the most knowledgeable men on football around, yet was behind the worst buy in the history of LFC. Coutinho is likely to be a more successful business investment than a footballing one.

 

It seems to me that getting the wages right is as important as anything, and that is a Board decision. We could have made a handsome transfer profit on Borini, if he wasn’t cruising on £50k a week for a squad player, and £120k a week for Johnson is why he is still here.

 

The trick is to minimise risk. Ballotelli at £16m is little risk on the fee. If it goes well his value will double, if it doesn’t he will still fetch £12m. £20m for Markovich who has barely played a full season of professional games seems high risk.

[xerxes]

They are not mutually exclusive things.

My implication is that in this case they could be, although they need not be, I accept.

[Major Tom]

My implication is that in this case they could be, although they need not be, I accept.

 

Yep, far enough.

[Gnasher]

Ayre won't be deciding on players. That's absurd. Blokes with the business acumen of Henry and co won't be putting footballing decisions in the hands of another businessman.

 

Rodgers will be having the final say on all players because a) it makes sense; and b ) I'm not sure he'd have it any other way.

I didnt mean Ayre decided on signing Moreno, ie playing ability. What i meant was the amount of effort Ayre put in to get him seems like Rodgers was very keen to get him, otherwise they would have just moved on to another target.

[DanDanShaw]

I think after last season, Rodgers would have been trusted with pretty much all our transfer dealings.  I'm not sure how true it is, but I heard the club wanted to sign Shaqiri but Rodgers was insisting on signing Markovic instead - and he obviously got his way.

 

To be honest, that's how a football club should work - a manager should succeed and fail on the basis of his signings and tactics, he's the one that takes the shit if it all goes tits up. 

[Gnasher]

So, who's picking them, then? Genuinely.

Not sure. A lot of clubs tell the manager his budget and ask what areas of the side he would like to strengthen, scouts then look for suitable players for those positions within the budget. Who then gets the final say is the question, the best way i can think to sum it up is Rafa's famous quote "i wanted a table and they bought me a lamp' or something like that.

 

In a global game and with the amount of money involved, add in the Kenny/Comolli signings i doubt the Americans who hold the purse strings allow Rodgers free range on all signings.

[Dr Nowt]

In a global game and with the amount of money involved, add in the Kenny/Comolli signings i doubt the Americans who hold the purse strings allow Rodgers free range on all signings.

Aspas was battery farmed?

 

No wonder he looked so feeble.

[Russ Atmosphere]

I think after last season, Rodgers would have been trusted with pretty much all our transfer dealings.  I'm not sure how true it is, but I heard the club wanted to sign Shaqiri but Rodgers was insisting on signing Markovic instead - and he obviously got his way.

 

To be honest, that's how a football club should work - a manager should succeed and fail on the basis of his signings and tactics, he's the one that takes the shit if it all goes tits up. 

 

Pretty sure that's made up, I think we agreed terms with Shaqiri but Bayern stalled on the transfer.

[Frankenhooker]

I think after last season, Rodgers would have been trusted with pretty much all our transfer dealings. I'm not sure how true it is, but I heard the club wanted to sign Shaqiri but Rodgers was insisting on signing Markovic instead - and he obviously got his way.

 

To be honest, that's how a football club should work - a manager should succeed and fail on the basis of his signings and tactics, he's the one that takes the shit if it all goes tits up.

Liverpool, and presumably Rodgers, both wanted to sign Shaqiri. They were in touch with both player and agent, the player was reportedly keen on the move as he's disgruntled at the lack of minutes. Bayern refused to sell.

 

If Bayern were willing to let him go, he'd probably be playing for us.

[Russ Atmosphere]

He's not playing much still so that one might get resurrected, like a swiss Jesus.

[Russ Atmosphere]

From another thread, probably more relevant in this one,

 

“There is absolutely no way a player will come in here if I don’t want him,” Rodgers said.

 

“I will always be the first person it comes to. That’s not being arrogant, that’s how we operate here and how it works in this country.

 

“Abroad it works differently where you have a coach and the club will bring in the players. The coach then works with the players he’s given.

 

“A lot has been made of it but the fact is the process that happens here is no different to what happens at other English clubs.

 

“We have a number of people, scouting staff and analysts, who will look for targets who fit the profile of the players that we want.

 

“Then I will sit down with those guys, look at those targets and make a shortlist from that.

 

“All that work that goes on is of great help to me. We identify players, gather all the information we possibly can and then if they’re right for what we need it comes down to whether they are affordable and available.

 

“I know the club will go and do the best it can to get the players we want. But it’s very clear that anyone we sign will be because I want him here.”

[ratcatcher]

From another thread, probably more relevant in this one,

 

“There is absolutely no way a player will come in here if I don’t want him,” Rodgers said.

 

“I will always be the first person it comes to. That’s not being arrogant, that’s how we operate here and how it works in this country.

 

“Abroad it works differently where you have a coach and the club will bring in the players. The coach then works with the players he’s given.

 

“A lot has been made of it but the fact is the process that happens here is no different to what happens at other English clubs.

 

“We have a number of people, scouting staff and analysts, who will look for targets who fit the profile of the players that we want.

 

“Then I will sit down with those guys, look at those targets and make a shortlist from that.

 

“All that work that goes on is of great help to me. We identify players, gather all the information we possibly can and then if they’re right for what we need it comes down to whether they are affordable and available.

 

“I know the club will go and do the best it can to get the players we want. But it’s very clear that anyone we sign will be because I want him here.”

 

Not that Ive studied every signing the club has made in rodgers term, so assaidi was a player he definitely wanted? OK.