Who would you vote for at this present time?

[Jairzinho]

Four Tories? Four?

[King Emlyn]

I see some LD non entity is warning against forming a coalition with Labour. Like they're gonna be in any position to make such a decision.

[Coro]

Yeah, you still sound like a caricature.

 

It's me who sounds like a caricature?

 

OK

[Stu Monty]

Yawn. Change the record.

 

If you think the Lib Dems could have blocked every bit of harsh Tory legislation in this parliament, you are insane. They are going to get their way in government more often than not, because there are six times as many of them.

 

Lib Dems have every right to announce what they think of Tory policy, and what they would do if unhindered by fascists of the left or right. You might as well criticise Usain Bolt for not being able to run a sub 10 second 100m with his shoelaces tied together.

Sorry, at what point did the the fact that there was collective responsibility, and as such the Lib Dems were excused from giving up their voices of dissent, as well as their votes, turn into the above?

 

I mean, we all knew this was coming I just want to hear the moral justification for it, given that the "The Great Yellow Leaders" are selflessly governing for the nation and not just taking the most poltically beneficial routes at all points.

 

Whilst knocking off 15 holes-in-one every round, of course.

[Gnasher]

Yawn. Change the record.If you think the Lib Dems could have blocked every bit of harsh Tory legislation in this parliament, you are insane. They are going to get their way in government more often than not, because there are six times as many of them.Lib Dems have every right to announce what they think of Tory policy, and what they would do if unhindered by fascists of the left or right. You might as well criticise Usain Bolt for not being able to run a sub 10 second 100m with his shoelaces tied together.

Not true. The tories may have a lot more seats than the Libs but put they do not have an overall majority. Labour and the Libs together have more seats than the tories. If the Libs would have kept rebelling or voting against things like the bedroom tax, slashing the top rate of tax, welfare cuts, Royal Mail sell off, raising vat etc the tories would have been forced to call another election.

[Gnasher]

I've put the link up before but here are a few of the things libdem leader voted for and against recently in the House of Commons...

 

For.. Reduction of spending on Welfare.

 

 

Against.. Using public money guarantee jobs for young people suffering long term unemployment.

 

 

For.. A tax on under occupied residency ( the bedroom tax)

 

 

Against.. A tax on bankers bonuses

 

 

For.. The raising of Value Added Tax

 

 

Against.. Higher benefits for people who cannot work through disability

 

 

For.. The reduction of the top rate of income tax.

 

 

 

Did not vote...measures to reduce tax avoidance.

 

 

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/11812/nicholas_clegg/sheffield%2C_hallam/votes

 

Unfortunately there's more, much more.

[Strontium]

Sorry, at what point did the the fact that there was collective responsibility, and as such the Lib Dems were excused from giving up their voices of dissent, as well as their votes, turn into the above?

 

I mean, we all knew this was coming I just want to hear the moral justification for it, given that the "The Great Yellow Leaders" are selflessly governing for the nation and not just taking the most poltically beneficial routes at all points.

 

Whilst knocking off 15 holes-in-one every round, of course.

 

I'm sorry, I don't really understand the point you are making in the first paragraph.

 

What I can say is that our poll figures have fallen considerably, even though we will leave the country in a better state than we found it, so our period in government has been, by definition, selfless.

[Ranxerox]

Cameron has one of those faces you'd just like to punch.

[Strontium]

Not true. The tories may have a lot more seats than the Libs but put they do not have an overall majority. Labour and the Libs together have more seats than the tories. If the Libs would have kept rebelling or voting against things like the bedroom tax, slashing the top rate of tax, welfare cuts, Royal Mail sell off, raising vat etc the tories would have been forced to call another election.

 

What would have been the point of forcing another election?

 

Reducing the top rate of income tax from 50% to 45% is not "slashing". High earners will still pay more tax on their income in every single year under the coalition than they did in any of Labour's 13 years in government, when the top rate of tax, for those with short memories, was only 40%.

 

The country has a deficit that needs to be reduced. This means unpalatable things like welfare cuts and tax increases. Welcome to the real world, where money doesn't grow on trees and difficult decisions need to be made with increasingly limited resources.

 

I'm unsure what the case for Royal Mail remaining wholly state-owned is supposed to be. All parties wanted it to be released into the private sector.

[Gnasher]

What would have been the point of forcing another election?Reducing the top rate of income tax from 50% to 45% is not "slashing". High earners will still pay more tax on their income in every single year under the coalition than they did in any of Labour's 13 years in government, when the top rate of tax, for those with short memories, was only 40%.The country has a deficit that needs to be reduced. This means unpalatable things like welfare cuts and tax increases. Welcome to the real world, where money doesn't grow on trees and difficult decisions need to be made with increasingly limited resources.I'm unsure what the case for Royal Mail remaining wholly state-owned is supposed to be. All parties wanted it to be released into the private sector.

The point of "slashing" income tax and slashing is the right word when you consider cuts to people on things like welfare, low pay, housing benefit was to give the highest earners a nice little thank you from Osboure and the tories. An example, someone like Rooney on 300 grand a week saves 15 thousand pounds per week due to this tax cut, for people in Britain feeling the pinch that's "Slashed"

 

Remember the "we're all in this together" shit you and the tories used to spout?

[Jairzinho]

The country has a deficit that needs to be reduced. This means unpalatable things like welfare cuts and tax increases. Welcome to the real world, where money doesn't grow on trees and difficult decisions need to be made with increasingly limited resources.

 

 

 

The deficit could have been reduced without welfare cuts, as you're well aware. That was simply an ideological decision. 

 

Money does grow on trees though, that is exactly the problem with a FIAT currency.

 

It seems strange that you try to play both the "We're only a tiny part of the government, we can only do so much" card and yet also you want to say "the country is much better now". It isn't very convincing.

[Stu Monty]

I'm sorry, I don't really understand the point you are making in the first paragraph.

 

What I can say is that our poll figures have fallen considerably, even though we will leave the country in a better state than we found it, so our period in government has been, by definition, selfless.

The first paragraph clearly isn't the only thing you don't understand. The correct usage of either the word definition or selfless can be added to it.

 

The point is a very simple one. When the Lib Dems have been criticised for holding their tongues on, or actively speaking up for (and voting for), terrible policy they (you) have claimed that there is collective responsibility in the government and it is the mature way to govern...so as not to split the coalition.

 

Why is that no longer the case?

 

Because political self interest is actually what matters and there is an election on the way.

 

Simple enough for anyone to grasp really.

[Stu Monty]

The deficit could have been reduced without welfare cuts, as you're well aware. That was simply an ideological decision.

 

Money does grow on trees though, that is exactly the problem with a FIAT currency.

 

It seems strange that you try to play both the "We're only a tiny part of the government, we can only do so much" card and yet also you want to say "the country is much better now". It isn't very convincing.

They slowed down the recovery. They sent us back into recession.

 

They want credit for getting to a destination a few miles down the road when the previously plotted course could have had us twice the distance by this point.

[Jairzinho]

They slowed down the recovery. They sent us back into recession.

 

They want credit for getting to a destination a few miles down the road when the previously plotted course could have had us twice the distance by this point.

 

Yes, I don't believe a fucking word of their "fixed the economy" spiel. They're lucky the vast majority of people don't understand anything about economics. Was just pointing out to SD that even if the government's rhetoric had a shred of truth, who they have targeted to reduce the deficit wasn't done out of necessity, it was an ideological decision.

 

But, as you say, its pure fantasy that we are recovering. Debt has increased, services are significantly worse, the rich are getting the richer, and the poor are getting poorer. They're hateful fucking cunts.

[Stu Monty]

The idea that this country is better off than it was four years ago is debatable, socially or financially.

 

The idea that you could be happy that this was even approaching acceptable progress over four years is fucking laughable.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

I'm sorry, I don't really understand the point you are making in the first paragraph.

 

What I can say is that our poll figures have fallen considerably, even though we will leave the country in a better state than we found it, so our period in government has been, by definition, selfless.

 

Examples please.

[Stu Monty]

Examples please.

 

Missing the point.

 

The passage of four years of time makes this the absolute lowest target a society can possibly set itself. 

 

It's where the country COULD be right now as opposed to where it is after those four years that is the main point. If you dramatically slow down the travelling speed from point A to point B when you take the wheel then don't ask for a medal just for being closer to point B after four years.

[Jairzinho]

And, er, where is point B?

[Stu Monty]

And, er, where is point B?

 

Theoretically an economically sound and socially coherent nation. 

 

My point B and Gideon's are a bit different though. 

 

Boxing my best man off with a nice chunk of the Post Office profit isn't part of my point B.

[Jairzinho]

Theoretically an economically sound and socially coherent nation. 

 

My point B and Gideon's are a bit different though. 

 

Boxing my best man off with a nice chunk of the Post Office profit isn't part of my point B.

 

Yeah, thought as much. Point B for Gideon, unfortunately, is the 19th century.

[Section_31]

Examples please.

* waits for some GDP or jobless figures jiggery Pokery.

[Jairzinho]

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2631817/The-rich-richer-Britains-wealthiest-worth-519billion.html

 

The country definitely better for these 1000 people.

[Bobby Hundreds]

[lifetime fan]

Not all Lib Dems are complete twats it seems...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29509369

 

Lib Dem president Tim Farron accused the Conservatives of being "borderline immoral" for trying to "balance the books on the back of the poor".

[Major Tom]

Labour. Always Labour.

 

Any other vote is - directly or indirectly - a Tory vote.