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Dejan Lovren


WhiskeyJar
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This is a well known song in Croatia it does not have fascist lyrics as such (it's fairly belligerent but you should know the context to judge that) , other than it does begin with the Ustasha slogan. It has floated towards the mainstream over the 25 or so years since it appeared so it's mostly nationalist or ultranationalist territory, rather than Nazi, although the slogan at the beginning has always made it a bit controversial. I'd say about half of Croatia has a video of them singing it in the wee hours at a wedding or after they had a few at a party. Thompson has been one of the best selling Croatian recording artists (or the best selling) in the decade after the war (this song made him) and is indeed somewhat controversial, in that he is firmly right wing with everything that this entails in Croatia (mostly seeing Ustasha not so much as a Nazi scum but as ultimate nationalists, 11 on the scale of misguided type of patriotism).  

 

National team and its support has always been immersed in the right wing context so it is not surprising that Lovren and Atletico's Vrsaljko would be singing that song in the dressing room going crazy after a big win.  However, there are worse songs than that one, so singing it and then posting it would not necessarily mark them as people with Nazi leanings, more a bit of bellends who should know better.  Like when Rangers players were filmed singing Billy Budd.

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Normal people no, left wing loons probable but then they are always outraged about something.

 

Left wing loons are usually outraged by people dying in the streets, poverty, hunger, disease and war. Don't confuse the modern bourgeois stuff with actual left-wingers.

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Normal people no, left wing loons probable but then they are always outraged about something.

I don’t think that’s fair. There should be no place for racism in football. So I’m with AoT on this, in that Lovren should know better than singing songs that could be interpreted as about celebrating the holocaust and/or ethnic cleansing.
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This is a well known song in Croatia it does not have fascist lyrics as such (it's fairly belligerent but you should know the context to judge that) , other than it does begin with the Ustasha slogan. It has floated towards the mainstream over the 25 or so years since it appeared so it's mostly nationalist or ultranationalist territory, rather than Nazi, although the slogan at the beginning has always made it a bit controversial. I'd say about half of Croatia has a video of them singing it in the wee hours at a wedding or after they had a few at a party. Thompson has been one of the best selling Croatian recording artists (or the best selling) in the decade after the war (this song made him) and is indeed somewhat controversial, in that he is firmly right wing with everything that this entails in Croatia (mostly seeing Ustasha not so much as a Nazi scum but as ultimate nationalists, 11 on the scale of misguided type of patriotism).

 

National team and its support has always been immersed in the right wing context so it is not surprising that Lovren and Atletico's Vrsaljko would be singing that song in the dressing room going crazy after a big win. However, there are worse songs than that one, so singing it and then posting it would not necessarily mark them as people with Nazi leanings, more a bit of bellends who should know better. Like when Rangers players were filmed singing Billy Budd.

I never used the word "Nazi" here, though there's some historical justification for doing so. But I don't distinguish between "ultra-nationalist" and "fascist". Whichever term you prefer, I think it applies to the artist and the song here...

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Unfortunately, moderates are characterized as left-wing loons in Croatia, Hungary, Slovakia, Poland, etc.

 

The far-right is regarded as mainstream in such places. I think that's pretty worrying. But then I guess I'm some kind of loon...

 

Unfortunately, moderates are characterised as right-wing fascist's and Nazi's in western Europe and the US etc

 

The far-left is regarded as mainstream in such places. I think that's pretty worrying. But then i guess i'm some kind of......

 

In reality far left or far right are not much different and both lead to conflicts, poverty and human rights abuses.   

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I never used the word "Nazi" here, though there's some historical justification for doing so. But I don't distinguish between "ultra-nationalist" and "fascist". Whichever term you prefer, I think it applies to the artist and the song here...

 

 

I was not replying directly to you, I was trying to provide some context. There is a distinction, in certain aspects of ideology, there are also traditional views that tend to cherry pick bits that suit them. The appeal of Ustasha is, for example, for many people the ultra-nationalist, ultra-patriotic not Fascist or Nazi, although there are of course proper Nazis. In Croatian diaspora, it is, for various historic reasons, fairly common to have a soft spot for Ustasha and routinely display the portrait of their WWII leader in homes and ethnic social clubs. At the same time, most of  these people don't behave as Fascist in their societies and mostly don't share other far right beliefs.

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Unfortunately, moderates are characterised as right-wing fascist's and Nazi's in western Europe and the US etc

 

The far-left is regarded as mainstream in such places. I think that's pretty worrying. But then i guess i'm some kind of......

 

In reality far left or far right are not much different and both lead to conflicts, poverty and human rights abuses.

The left, let alone far left, is not mainstream in the Anglo-Saxon world for starters. Sorry to disillusion you.

 

I'm no apologist for Communism. From an ideological and national point of view, this is pretty bloody clear. But the abuses of Communism don't justify contemporary fascism in Central and Eastern Europe. Anymore than Nazism, for example, justified post-War Stalinism.

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I was not replying directly to you, I was trying to provide some context. There is a distinction, in certain aspects of ideology, there are also traditional views that tend to cherry pick bits that suit them. The appeal of Ustasha is, for example, for many people the ultra-nationalist, ultra-patriotic not Fascist or Nazi, although there are of course proper Nazis. In Croatian diaspora, it is, for various historic reasons, fairly common to have a soft spot for Ustasha and routinely display the portrait of their WWII leader in homes and ethnic social clubs. At the same time, most of these people don't behave as Fascist in their societies and mostly don't share other far right beliefs.

I wasn't really disagreeing with you. I just think there's a line to be drawn between fascism and Nazism, but I don't really see it between fascism and ultra-nationalism. I think a lot of contemporary right wing politics in Central and Eastern Europe is fascist. I include Poland, where I have longstanding connections, and Estonia, where I also lived for a number of years, in this...

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Unfortunately, moderates are characterised as right-wing fascist's and Nazi's in western Europe and the US etc

 

The far-left is regarded as mainstream in such places. I think that's pretty worrying. But then i guess i'm some kind of......

 

In reality far left or far right are not much different and both lead to conflicts, poverty and human rights abuses.

You appear to be one of these buffoons that doesn’t understand what left and right wing actually means. The fact you add in a load of your own laughably biased views on what a moderate is just makes the whole post hysterical. Educate yourself you complete imbecile.

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Unfortunately, moderates are characterised as right-wing fascist's and Nazi's in western Europe and the US etc

 

The far-left is regarded as mainstream in such places. I think that's pretty worrying. But then i guess i'm some kind of......

 

In reality far left or far right are not much different and both lead to conflicts, poverty and human rights abuses.

The Chap has returned.

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You appear to be one of these buffoons that doesn’t understand what left and right wing actually means. The fact you add in a load of your own laughably biased views on what a moderate is just makes the whole post hysterical. Educate yourself you complete imbecile.

 

You would be wrong, i know exactly what left wing and right wing means.  I know for example that socialism has never and will never work and has already caused the deaths of over 100 million people.  That is not to say extreme right wing views are any better, any extreme view be it political or religious is imo dangerous. 

 

If you understand what is going on today in politics and the media today which you clearly don't then you would have understood my reference to moderates today being called Nazi's racist etc.  I suggest it is you that needs to get an education outside of the Guardian or the morning star, maybe some Sargon of Arkad or count Dancula with a side of Paul Joseph Watson, I don't think your ready for Milo quite yet you would probable have a heart attack.

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Unfortunately, moderates are characterised as right-wing fascist's and Nazi's in western Europe and the US etc

 

The far-left is regarded as mainstream in such places. I think that's pretty worrying. But then i guess i'm some kind of......

 

In reality far left or far right are not much different and both lead to conflicts, poverty and human rights abuses.

Proper loon here. One to keep an eye on for a possible Gimp team inclusion. Certainly playing into contention.
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Unfortunately, moderates are characterised as right-wing fascist's and Nazi's in western Europe and the US etc

 

The far-left is regarded as mainstream in such places. I think that's pretty worrying. But then i guess i'm some kind of......

 

In reality far left or far right are not much different and both lead to conflicts, poverty and human rights abuses.   

 

Can you name a few "far left" positions that are mainstream in western Europe?

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