Another IAN AYRE thread - (featuring FSG, and various unanswered questions)

[ZonkoVille77]

I haven't really been on board with the Ayre bashing but I've slowly come round to thinking he's a bit of a fuckin spoofer. If we regress the majority of the fault has got to lie at his feet. I won't go all Nightcat on him though but I'm beginning to think he's a cock up merchant.

[Red Banjo]

A bit of a spoofer? He's a solid18 carat fraud mate.

 

It's not entirely his fault tho, his employers should have hired someone to handle this side of the business, not promote someone so clearly out of their depth it's embarrassing.

 

I cringe when I picture him going into meetings with other players, agents and high ranking club officials. I imagine them thinking we must be a right Mickey mouse outfit.

[Guest LFD]

I just think it is too easy to blame Ayre.

 

Does he decide how much we can bid?  No, the Committee do.

 

So how much influence does he have?

 

Last season we didn't have Champs League to attract our top targets, so we missed out on them to teams that did.

 

This season we've not signed Moreno because we don't think he is worth what Seville are asking - again that's The Committee that surely decide how much these players are worth, not Ayre.

 

He takes all the blame, but really The committee are probably the ones who should be getting the criticism.  They are the ones who targetted unrealistic players last summer, ones which we weren't going to be able to attract due to no Champs League football (Mkhitaryan, Costa, Willan etc).  It is them that are saying they don't feel Moreno is worth £20m.  Sanchez I think is irrelevant as it sounds he chose London over Liverpool as a location, nothing Ayre could do about that either.

 

It is easy to blame Ayre.  He's an easy target.  But in reality his hands are tiedwhen he does these negotiations, as he can only offer what has been agreed by the Committee.

 

For me The Committee are the ones that need the scrutiny, not Ayre.

[skend04]

http://downatthemac.proboards.com/thread/55479

Not going very easy on him are they. Think he got photos of Henry or Werner in comprising situations or summat?

[index1000]

FSG and especially Henry are based on trading futures/commodities for value.

Your/our concept of big money has very little to do with it.

John henry does/did FSG have fuck all to do with trading futures/commodities i think like Funneeeeeeeeeeee you just say the first shit that comes into your head.

[Section_31]

The fact so much time is spent talking about him shows how much more scrutiny football is under in the internet generation. Wonder how many fans knew, or cared, who their chief execs were 15 years ago?

[No2]

So he's to blame for William, mkytaryan, komoplanka etc but where is the credit for Sturridge or coutinhio? Where is the credit for stadium development finally taking shape? Where is the credit for our turnover growing all the time, our team looking good again, having the most promising young manager in the league?

 

I think I don't like the chap, he's one of those people I don't like but have no actual reason for not liking him. Too many on here pretend to know what he should or shouldn't be doing, they want an experienced football man, we'll right now he probably has as much experience in football as any ceo in England. The Ayre bashing is pathetic at this stage.

[Harry Squatter]

Yeah but back then we were so good at signing players, we signed them fifty years before everyone else had ever even heard of any of them. The only time you knew about it was when they had signed and it was in the paper the next day. Our transfer committee consisted of Doc Brown, Marty McFly and Jean Claude van Damme in Time Cop

[jamespp]

He's rubbish

[Iceman]

He fucks himself by over briefing the press so he looks super busy (no, no it's the players agents !), but then failing miserably when he comes back empty handed yet again.

 

If there is no evidence that he is responsible for our failings in the market, then there is also no evidence to suggest he isn't. He is the one who flies out for the players and gladhands them when they sign. But his record isn't good. He has come back empty handed from signing missions many times. The fact that we have threads about his failings is evidence in itself. I may have missed them but I haven't seen the threads on the other members of the committee. It's Ayre - he is the man who goes to get the deal done. We get player X and he's doing his job. If we don't , then he isn't .

 

It's simple and it's why he gets paid a shit load of money and gets to be on Fowler's shoulders instead of selling photocopiers and driving a Mondeo.

[Trumo]

*misses tags like "Ayre on a shoestring"*

[Iceman]

"Shithouse dog Ayreds"

[milky]

Chief Executives (or whatever the fuck the title is) seem to be the 'in' focus of fans ire these days. It seems to be the same at near every club.

 

Have a look at what United fans make of their equivalent (Woodward?). He's been lynched at every opportunity due to ham-fisted transfer dealings since he took over. 'It wouldn't have happened under Gill'.

 

Everton- Kenwright. A man who's become a comedy figure when it comes to transfers. A pantomime queen wheeled out every year spinning the same epic stories of poverty, loans and failed medicals.

 

Levy, while is without doubt a brilliant negotiator, has constantly sold off the clubs top players season after season, seemingly happy to balance the books rather than achieve further success.

 

Newcastle had Joe Royal and Dennis Wise at one point!

 

There are the exceptions; at Chelsea and City it isn't really an issue due to the amounts of money they chuck at stuff, but in the main they are loathed by the clubs fans. Ours is no different really.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

I just think it is too easy to blame Ayre.

 

Does he decide how much we can bid?  No, the Committee do.

 

So how much influence does he have?

 

Last season we didn't have Champs League to attract our top targets, so we missed out on them to teams that did.

 

This season we've not signed Moreno because we don't think he is worth what Seville are asking - again that's The Committee that surely decide how much these players are worth, not Ayre.

 

He takes all the blame, but really The committee are probably the ones who should be getting the criticism.  They are the ones who targetted unrealistic players last summer, ones which we weren't going to be able to attract due to no Champs League football (Mkhitaryan, Costa, Willan etc).  It is them that are saying they don't feel Moreno is worth £20m.  Sanchez I think is irrelevant as it sounds he chose London over Liverpool as a location, nothing Ayre could do about that either.

 

It is easy to blame Ayre.  He's an easy target.  But in reality his hands are tiedwhen he does these negotiations, as he can only offer what has been agreed by the Committee.

 

For me The Committee are the ones that need the scrutiny, not Ayre.

I agree that the commitee should fall under scrutiny, but shouldn't such a commitee be governed by a strong CEO?

 

I think one of the reasons the focus falls on Ayre as opposed to the commitee is down to the protracted nature of the deals that have fallen through, which is just as much an issue of a negotiator's judgement as anything that falls under the commitee's remit.

 

Take last January. The key problem then wasn't one of picking poor targets, or unrealistic valuations (the latter may have been true) it was dragging out a deal that needed to be closed or walked away from. Every report said we knew how much Salah would cost, and he wanted to come to us. Now, if the commitee was unrealistic in its valuation a strong CEO and negotiator would know when a deal was unlikely to be struck and we wouldn't have been left scrabbling to get the last flight to Ukraine and miss a second target as well due to lack of time.

 

Last summer was similar. We were happy to laugh at Utd and their fumblings, but we let deals become protracted affairs and in hindsight none look like they were ever close to being completed. Costa got the new deal he wanted, Mkhitaryan got his move to Dortmund and we were seemingly third choice for Willian. It may have been poor luck, or it could have been us getting strung along by three top agents looking to use us as the fulcrum to lever their clients towards the deals they wanted.

 

I don't discount the idea that the commitee has picked unrealistic targets or set absurdly low valuations, but surely it's a CEO's role to right those wrongs rather than be hobbled in negotitations by them? Considering Henry admitted how shocked he was by the nature of agents and their tactics, is it so wrong to consider the man who struggled at Huddersfield to be a questionable choice as CEO in comparison to more experienced footballing figures?

 

Sorry, didn't mean to rant, I think I went a bit Nightcat there.

[Salou]

Actually hilarious how much detail people seem to know of his supposed cock ups in negotiating when in actual fact not a single person making these comments is or knows anyone remotely close to the issues being mentioned. I'm not saying he's great at his job or shit at his job but the shit people just outright make up is laughable. Also the amount of stuff put at his door that quite clearly he would have no control over (like what the player/players club decided to do!?!) is ridiculous. 

 

My main criticism of LFC and the way they do business recently though has got to be how quickly our dealings get out in the media.

[Iceman]

I agree that the commitee should fall under scrutiny, but shouldn't such a commitee be governed by a strong CEO?

 

I think one of the reasons the focus falls on Ayre as opposed to the commitee is down to the protracted nature of the deals that have fallen through, which is just as much an issue of a negotiator's judgement as anything that falls under the commitee's remit.

 

Take last January. The key problem then wasn't one of picking poor targets, or unrealistic valuations (the latter may have been true) it was dragging out a deal that needed to be closed or walked away from. Every report said we knew how much Salah would cost, and he wanted to come to us. Now, if the commitee was unrealistic in its valuation a strong CEO and negotiator would know when a deal was unlikely to be struck and we wouldn't have been left scrabbling to get the last flight to Ukraine and miss a second target as well due to lack of time.

 

Last summer was similar. We were happy to laugh at Utd and their fumblings, but we let deals become protracted affairs and in hindsight none look like they were ever close to being completed. Costa got the new deal he wanted, Mkhitaryan got his move to Dortmund and we were seemingly third choice for Willian. It may have been poor luck, or it could have been us getting strung along by three top agents looking to use us as the fulcrum to lever their clients towards the deals they wanted.

 

I don't discount the idea that the commitee has picked unrealistic targets or set absurdly low valuations, but surely it's a CEO's role to right those wrongs rather than be hobbled in negotitations by them? Considering Henry admitted how shocked he was by the nature of agents and their tactics, is it so wrong to consider the man who struggled at Huddersfield to be a questionable choice as CEO in comparison to more experienced footballing figures?

 

Sorry, didn't mean to rant, I think I went a bit Nightcat there.

 

On point. No apology needed.

[Iceman]

Actually hilarious how much detail people seem to know of his supposed cock ups in negotiating when in actual fact not a single person making these comments is or knows anyone remotely close to the issues being mentioned. 

 

You counting yourself in?

[Iceman]

No one ever knows the inside dealings but there has to be someone who is in charge. The face. That's Ayre. The buck stops and all that.

[Guest LFD]

I agree that the commitee should fall under scrutiny, but shouldn't such a commitee be governed by a strong CEO?

 

We don't know how it works, how Rodgers wanted it to work.  Let's remember Rodgers said he wouldn't work with a Director of Football before he took the job.  It would suggest he has had a say in how The Committee functions:

 

Ayre said this on The Committee:

 

“We have a head of analysis, a head of recruitment, a first-team manager, myself. All of those people are all inputting into a process that delivers what a director of football would deliver.”

 

From what I can remember of last January is we didn't miss out on Konoplyanka due to time, it was because their owner refused to sell him.

[TheHowieLama]

John henry does/did FSG have fuck all to do with trading futures/commodities i think like Funneeeeeeeeeeee you just say the first shit that comes into your head.

 

Probably - although the fact I am right makes it different. And the fact I have watched him/them as sports owners do the same for near two decades makes me know more than you too.

[Iceman]

It's not anti-Liverpool to not like our frequent failures to land our targets. It's not anti-Liverpool to not think we are doing a good job getting the players we pursue.

 

Ayre should be this smooth, silent deal maker who gets shit done. He seems to enjoy having a high profile but I don't think he's earned it yet. 

[Babb'sBurstNad]

We don't know how it works, how Rodgers wanted it to work. Let's remember Rodgers said he wouldn't work with a Director of Football before he took the job. It would suggest he has had a say in how The Committee functions:

 

Ayre said this on The Committee:

 

 

 

From what I can remember of last January is we didn't miss out on Konoplyanka due to time, it was because their owner refused to sell him.

But DoF is just a term, their roles vary wildly, Rodgers was clearly meaning the most extreme example, but in effect he's ceded control to the commitee anyway. I don't think he was in the best position to dictate how it functions after his first season. If they restructured it now that might be different.

 

As for Kono, there were varying reports, mostly at this end, the LFC affiliated journos indicated that the owner refused to sell, but elsewhere there were stories that we ran out of time; at a guess I'd wager both were half true, we agreed to meet the buy out but couldn't agree on payment terms. Either way, the Salah deal should have been concluded or left for us to tackle our second choice without a timer ticking down on it.

[Guest LFD]

As for Kono, there were varying reports, mostly at this end, the LFC affiliated journos indicated that the owner refused to sell, but elsewhere there were stories that we ran out of time; at a guess I'd wager both were half true, we agreed to meet the buy out but couldn't agree on payment terms. Either way, the Salah deal should have been concluded or left for us to tackle our second choice without a timer ticking down on it.

 

So we don't know, what happened.

 

What I do know is it didn't affect us last season as our second half of the season our attack couldn't have been any better.

 

Not arsed we missed out on either, for whatever reason.

[Tyler Durden]

We don't know how it works, how Rodgers wanted it to work. Let's remember Rodgers said he wouldn't work with a Director of Football before he took the job. It would suggest he has had a say in how The Committee functions:

 

Ayre said this on The Committee:

 

 

 

From what I can remember of last January is we didn't miss out on Konoplyanka due to time, it was because their owner refused to sell him.

Do you not think that it's a bit convenient to have those excuses though? Bit too much of a coincidence that we fail due to unruly owners/ super agents/being played for deal improvements etc, etc.

 

I honestly think Ayre (because he is the face of the negotiations) gets cut too much slack, we've lost out on far too many deals under his tenure and the same nonsense is leaked out about how it wasn't our fault and (insert this windows scapegoat).

 

This has been after numerous other clubs have been often offended and pissed off with the way we have gone about our deals.

 

If it looks like a dog, walks like a dog and barks like a dog then it's safe to say its a dog.

[Salou]

You counting yourself in?

 

Of course.