If Roy Keane played for us

[3 Stacks]

Wasn't around to watch him in real time, but Keane to me is a player where the idea of him was probably a bit more attractive than the reality. A fiery, tough presence on the pitch, who was a great member of sides who won loads of trophies sure, but better than Lampard who scored more than 200 goals, mostly from midfield? Nah. Better than Gerrard who could win games by himself at his best? Nah. Better than Scholes who could control matches with his technical ability? I'd say nah.  

[Elite]

14 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

Wasn't around to watch him in real time, but Keane to me is a player where the idea of him was probably a bit more attractive than the reality. A fiery, tough presence on the pitch, who was a great member of sides who won loads of trophies sure, but better than Lampard who scored more than 200 goals, mostly from midfield? Nah. Better than Gerrard who could win games by himself at his best? Nah. Better than Scholes who could control matches with his technical ability? I'd say nah.  

I think his main attribute was the ability to improve the performance/mentality of his team mates. He was still a great player, light years ahead of Mark Noble. 

[Manny]

Enjoy his analysis a lot more than the Client Pundits who are quite happy to play everything fairly straight and down the middle so they don't become out of favour with players and clubs which'll make them less employable.

 

Totally took his point about de Gea, even if it's a great insight into why he failed as a manager. You can't go treating professionals like that, but he's right that de Gea has slid into mediocrity largely due to a complete lack of accountability because his team-mates and manager completely indulge him. He's top dog at the mancs and he coins it in while there's no competition for his place and seemingly no blame attached to him from any of the hierarchy - there's simply no motivation for him to excel any further because he's got all the carrots and no stick. The fans don't seem to have cottoned onto him either. They and he probably need to hear that a club legend is "sick of him".

[Ronnie Whelan]

2 hours ago, JohnnyH said:

 

Keane in second?  A wonderful player not doubt, but no way is he second. And he couldn't "do everything" like you said in a previous post. On your entire list Gerrard is probably the only one who could "do everything". But at their best, Viera was better than Keane, and I think Makelele was too.  I'd also have Yaya Toure ahead of him and I've no idea how he didn't make your list? 

 

Keane was a superb footballer, but 2nd best ever in the PL?  Nope.  Top 10 definitely.  

 

Finally, Souness was ahead of all of those on your list, and streets ahead of Keane.  Souness was a one in a billion.

Fair enough Johnny. All of the above players were top class. I also didn't have David Silva in the list, who would be high up.

 

He played for our biggest rivals and I don't support any international team (although he walked out on Ireland and I would have a soft spot for them), so I've no connection to the fella. 

 

There has been so many great players in the PL era but he would make my greatest ever eleven of it. 

[aws]

Tough call between him and Lucas for that eleventh place. 

[Curly]

5 hours ago, JohnnyH said:

 

Keane in second?  A wonderful player not doubt, but no way is he second. And he couldn't "do everything" like you said in a previous post. On your entire list Gerrard is probably the only one who could "do everything". But at their best, Viera was better than Keane, and I think Makelele was too.  I'd also have Yaya Toure ahead of him and I've no idea how he didn't make your list? 

 

Keane was a superb footballer, but 2nd best ever in the PL?  Nope.  Top 10 definitely.  

 

Finally, Souness was ahead of all of those on your list, and streets ahead of Keane.  Souness was a one in a billion.

What couldn’t Keane do?

 

Makalele certainly couldn’t do everything - he was a total covering midfielder and had none of the incisiveness Keane had. 
 

Yaya Toure may well have been more gifted, but bollocks did he perform at that 8/10 plus level every week, year after year like Keane did.

 

Nothing wrong with that list by Ronnie, especially as it’s all subjective. You talk in facts when discussing opinions. Edit - in my opinion!

[The Guest]

Keane couldn’t shoot with any consistency, wasn’t particularly good in the air, he had no pace, he didn’t have a long pass in the locker and couldn’t use his weak foot.  He literally had an engine, a tackle and a mouth.  Circumstance and attitude got him in the United team and kept him there.  He looked like a promising midfielder when he was young but he went backwards when they realised he wasn’t good enough.  Noble is a perfect example of someone with very similar technical ability.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

On 20/06/2020 at 14:35, Kevin D said:

 

How is he surprised at Harry the Fod being a bit shit?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

10 hours ago, Grinch said:

Can you 8maging fat cunt ruddock playing pass the pound with Keane in the team.  Nah me neither. 

 

That's 90s side was extremely unprofessional from top to bottom. 

Keane would have called Evans "an effing C and an effing W" then fucked off home to be with his dog. 

[johnsusername]

Keane was a brilliant footballer. This thread is a disgrace! I wouldnt let it on the team bus home. 

[No2]

If one player makes every other player play 10% better then it doesn't matter how good he is. The fact he was brilliant  makes it implausible we wouldn't have won a few leagues in the mid 90s.   

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 minutes ago, No2 said:

If one player makes every other player play 10% better then it doesn't matter how good he is. The fact he was brilliant  makes it implausible we wouldn't have won a few leagues in the mid 90s.   

That "if", though...

 

He was perfectly suited for the culture that Ferguson instilled and being surrounded by players raised in that culture.  It's arguable whether he would have spread that culture to mid-90s Liverpool or just caused loads of dressing room fights.

[No2]

2 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

That "if", though...

 

He was perfectly suited for the culture that Ferguson instilled and being surrounded by players raised in that culture.  It's arguable whether he would have spread that culture to mid-90s Liverpool or just caused loads of dressing room fights.

It's hard to define who sets the culture in a dressing room. I don't think the manager set it back then so if its the players it's probable the strongest personality sets the agenda. He was a warrior and a winner, that rubs off on people. Fowler in particular could have had a much better career if Keane was his captain rather than Jamie fucking Redknapp.

 

[s(k)aturation]

13 hours ago, dockers_strike said:

Yeah, we might have conceeded less goals with Schmichel but it's a leap of faith to think on his own, he'd have turned us into a side winning multiple titles. Same with Keane, same with mourinho.

 

Same with Klopp?

 

 

[JohnnyH]

9 hours ago, belarus said:

What couldn’t Keane do?

 

Makalele certainly couldn’t do everything - he was a total covering midfielder and had none of the incisiveness Keane had. 
 

Yaya Toure may well have been more gifted, but bollocks did he perform at that 8/10 plus level every week, year after year like Keane did.

 

Nothing wrong with that list by Ronnie, especially as it’s all subjective. You talk in facts when discussing opinions. Edit - in my opinion!

Are you from Cork or something?  Calm down you tart. 
 

This is my opinion too. It’s a football forum debate about which player is better than which. If you need people to state “in my opinion of course” in a football forum debate that can so obviously only be people’s opinions then you need to go and sit in a dark corner and give your head a wobble. Of course it’s just my opinion. As it’s stands, I’m not yet able to give others their opinion...
 

As for “what couldn’t Keane do?”  We’re not talking about the ability to just kick a ball or cover a bit in a position. This is about when someone says a player is best or second best in a major league with a statement that “he could do everything”. This means they are saying he was one of the very best in whatever position. Thus why I said Gerrard is the only one in that list who can justify that accolade. He was literally one of the best in the league when he played centrally, right wing, a number 10, and even bossed it in a European Cup Final at right back. Keane could not do that. He was not “an all round player”. 
 

Keane was an excellent defensive midfielder. He had a spell of being good as an attacking midfielder in a team that was relegated. He couldn’t play a back 4 defensive line and the handful of times asked to cover there by Ferguson was not great. He didn’t possess an eye for goal at a top level. He was not an excellent finisher. He didn’t have top pace or skill to contribute from the flanks. He was not an all round player. Not many are. 
 

Keane is seen at the level he is half because of roaring at Viera in the tunnel and trying to end Haaland’s career. And the other half because he became a top defensive midfielder. But so much about his game is blown up because of that awful British and Irish virtue ‘he gets stuck in’. A prime example is what is known as his ‘greatest hour’, the Juventus v Man Utd game. One of the big things spoken about is how he got booked and would miss the final, yet he still played well. Like that’s not the bare minimum we should expect? Was it ok for him to down tools? Every British and Irish paper game him man of the match and it’s now the go-to example of how great Keane is. Yet every Italian and Spanish newspaper gave man of the match to Andy Cole because of his attacking and link up play. Keane getting a yellow card was a passing comment. We look for a lot of the wrong things in players to applaud. 
 

Keane was a great player. One of the best in his defined position surrounded by great players.  He was not better than Viera or Toure who did much more from midfield in wonderful title winning teams. IN MY OPINION. 

[VladimirIlyich]

2 minutes ago, JohnnyH said:

Are you from Cork or something?  Calm down you tart. 
 

This is my opinion too. It’s a football forum debate about which player is better than which. If you need people to state “in my opinion of course” in a football forum debate that can so obviously only be people’s opinions then you need to go and sit in a dark corner and give your head a wobble. Of course it’s just my opinion. As it’s stands, I’m not yet able to give others their opinion...
 

As for “what couldn’t Keane do?”  We’re not talking about the ability to just kick a ball or cover a bit in a position. This is about when someone says a player is best or second best in a major league with a statement that “he could do everything”. This means they are saying he was one of the very best in whatever position. Thus why I said Gerrard is the only one in that list who can justify that accolade. He was literally one of the best in the league when he played centrally, right wing, a number 10, and even bossed it in a European Cup Final at right back. Keane could not do that. He was not “an all round player”. 
 

Keane was an excellent defensive midfielder. He had a spell of being good as an attacking midfielder in a team that was relegated. He couldn’t play a back 4 defensive line and the handful of times asked to cover there by Ferguson was not great. He didn’t possess an eye for goal at a top level. He was not an excellent finisher. He didn’t have top pace or skill to contribute from the flanks. He was not an all round player. Not many are. 
 

Keane is seen at the level he is half because of roaring at Viera in the tunnel and trying to end Haaland’s career. And the other half because he became a top defensive midfielder. But so much about his game is blown up because of that awful British and Irish virtue ‘he gets stuck in’. A prime example is what is known as his ‘greatest hour’, the Juventus v Man Utd game. One of the big things spoken about is how he got booked and would miss the final, yet he still played well. Like that’s not the bare minimum we should expect? Was it ok for him to down tools? Every British and Irish paper game him man of the match and it’s now the go-to example of how great Keane is. Yet every Italian and Spanish newspaper gave man of the match to Andy Cole because of his attacking and link up play. Keane getting a yellow card was a passing comment. We look for a lot of the wrong things in players to applaud. 
 

Keane was a great player. One of the best in his defined position surrounded by great players.  He was not better than Viera or Toure who did much more from midfield in wonderful title winning teams. IN MY OPINION. 

I think Keane was better than Toure but not Vieira. 

[El Dangerous]

I think Keane would have looked good in our midfield with his bleached blonde hair.

[Elite]

1 hour ago, El Dangerous said:

I think Keane would have looked good in our midfield with his bleached blonde hair.

Imagine if they'd have asked him to wear the white suit. His reaction would have been hilarious.

[Bjornebye]

I'd go as fas as to say I'd rather have had Keane play for us than any other player in Prem history. Redknapp was a decent player but never a leader. Imagine the difference Keane would have made to that side. One thing we lacked is discipline. He wouldn't have stood for any of the shit that went on. 

[Ronnie Whelan]

1 hour ago, JohnnyH said:

Are you from Cork or something?  Calm down you tart. 
 

This is my opinion too. It’s a football forum debate about which player is better than which. If you need people to state “in my opinion of course” in a football forum debate that can so obviously only be people’s opinions then you need to go and sit in a dark corner and give your head a wobble. Of course it’s just my opinion. As it’s stands, I’m not yet able to give others their opinion...
 

As for “what couldn’t Keane do?”  We’re not talking about the ability to just kick a ball or cover a bit in a position. This is about when someone says a player is best or second best in a major league with a statement that “he could do everything”. This means they are saying he was one of the very best in whatever position. Thus why I said Gerrard is the only one in that list who can justify that accolade. He was literally one of the best in the league when he played centrally, right wing, a number 10, and even bossed it in a European Cup Final at right back. Keane could not do that. He was not “an all round player”. 
 

Keane was an excellent defensive midfielder. He had a spell of being good as an attacking midfielder in a team that was relegated. He couldn’t play a back 4 defensive line and the handful of times asked to cover there by Ferguson was not great. He didn’t possess an eye for goal at a top level. He was not an excellent finisher. He didn’t have top pace or skill to contribute from the flanks. He was not an all round player. Not many are. 
 

Keane is seen at the level he is half because of roaring at Viera in the tunnel and trying to end Haaland’s career. And the other half because he became a top defensive midfielder. But so much about his game is blown up because of that awful British and Irish virtue ‘he gets stuck in’. A prime example is what is known as his ‘greatest hour’, the Juventus v Man Utd game. One of the big things spoken about is how he got booked and would miss the final, yet he still played well. Like that’s not the bare minimum we should expect? Was it ok for him to down tools? Every British and Irish paper game him man of the match and it’s now the go-to example of how great Keane is. Yet every Italian and Spanish newspaper gave man of the match to Andy Cole because of his attacking and link up play. Keane getting a yellow card was a passing comment. We look for a lot of the wrong things in players to applaud. 
 

Keane was a great player. One of the best in his defined position surrounded by great players.  He was not better than Viera or Toure who did much more from midfield in wonderful title winning teams. IN MY OPINION. 

Fair points but I think Keane for a period of 8 years was world class. For a number of years, he would have been a candidate for a world eleven. Vieira would have also been to be fair and Stevie certainly would have been in it imo. Those 3 players were held in very high regard by the Europeans, though to be fair, the Spanish seem to adore Scholes.

 

Lampard, Scholes and Toure were more technically gifted players. Were they better all round midfield players? In my opinion no. Keane was world class in terms of being a defensive midfielder, but going forward he was very good also. It's like revisionism from Mancs that Souey was just some kind of hatchet man that scored the odd worldie which was a bit of a fluke and he wasn't fit to lace the boots of Paul Pogba.

 

Out of interest, where do you rate Keane in terms of some of the other Irish midfielders that were top class like Giles, Brady or Whelan?

 

 

 

 

[VladimirIlyich]

5 minutes ago, Ronnie Whelan said:

Fair points but I think Keane for a period of 8 years was world class. For a number of years, he would have been a candidate for a world eleven. Vieira would have also been to be fair and Stevie certainly would have been in it imo. Those 3 players were held in very high regard by the Europeans, though to be fair, the Spanish seem to adore Scholes.

 

Lampard, Scholes and Toure were more technically gifted players. Were they better all round midfield players? In my opinion no. Keane was world class in terms of being a defensive midfielder, but going forward he was very good also. It's like revisionism from Mancs that Souey was just some kind of hatchet man that scored the odd worldie which was a bit of a fluke and he wasn't fit to lace the boots of Paul Pogba.

 

Out of interest, where do you rate Keane in terms of some of the other Irish midfielders that were top class like Giles, Brady or Whelan?

 

 

 

 

I've never seen a better Irish player than Liam Brady,technically. Shame he didn't win what his talent deserved. Loved to have seen him in a Liverpool shirt.

[Ronnie Whelan]

1 hour ago, VladimirIlyich said:

I've never seen a better Irish player than Liam Brady,technically. Shame he didn't win what his talent deserved. Loved to have seen him in a Liverpool shirt.

Brady was a beautiful player alright. He would have been great here. 

[Bjornebye]

My brother was named after Liam Brady who was Celtic manager when he was born. I always wind him up that if he was born a year later his name would be Lou. 

[JohnnyH]

1 hour ago, Ronnie Whelan said:

 

Out of interest, where do you rate Keane in terms of some of the other Irish midfielders that were top class like Giles, Brady or Whelan?

 

Keane was better than Whelan for me. Brady was a very different player, probably our most talented player ever and would have been a world star in these days (He was in his own days). I never saw Giles play live and wouldn't want to place him a best ever conversation when I never saw full games. 

[Ronnie Whelan]

12 minutes ago, JohnnyH said:

Keane was better than Whelan for me. Brady was a very different player, probably our most talented player ever and would have been a world star in these days (He was in his own days). I never saw Giles play live and wouldn't want to place him a best ever conversation when I never saw full games. 

I loved Whelan and he was a class act in great Liverpool teams. I would say he was better technically than Keane, but Keane was the better all round player. Having said that, all of the Liverpool players mention that Whelan was the silent assasin type and hard as fucking nails in a quiet manner. 

 

I remember Giles as a kid and he was the best player in a great Leeds team. World class player no doubt. Can't say if Keane was overall the better player, but Giles was technically one of the best midfielders to play in this country. If you asked my dad or older Kopites, they would reckon Keane wasn't fit to lace Giles or Bremner's boots.

 

Brady was wonderful to watch. I reckon he is the second best Arsenal player of all time behind Henry.