If Roy Keane played for us

[The Guest]

I think it’s fanciful to think we would have won the league had he been here.  United won so many league titles because of Ferguson.  He changed the game and not for the good.  They were horrible cheats.  Yes players had dived before and yes players had “managed” the referee before but they turned it into an art form.  They were horrible cunts surrounding referees whenever anything wasn’t going their way.  Ferguson bullying refs and trying to ruin their career.  Some of the shit that went their way was a disgrace in those title races.  People forget this but the reason the game is the way it is in this country now and generally is because teams and managers had to do the same shit he was pioneering.

 

Keane was an horrible cunt but his influence is overstated.  Yes he was probably at the players every day but Ferguson would have had somebody else doing it had he not.  They won plenty of stuff before he had much influence and plenty of stuff after.

 

Ability wise he’s about the same level as Mark Noble.  We had the best box to box midfielder of all time here and we couldn’t win the league.  The 90’s we were too soft and from there on in we hired the wrong managers who were always behind the curve.  Keane wouldn’t have changed any of it.

[Curly]

14 minutes ago, The Guest said:

I think it’s fanciful to think we would have won the league had he been here.  United won so many league titles because of Ferguson.  He changed the game and not for the good.  They were horrible cheats.  Yes players had dived before and yes players had “managed” the referee before but they turned it into an art form.  They were horrible cunts surrounding referees whenever anything wasn’t going their way.  Ferguson bullying refs and trying to ruin their career.  Some of the shit that went their way was a disgrace in those title races.  People forget this but the reason the game is the way it is in this country now and generally is because teams and managers had to do the same shit he was pioneering.

 

Keane was an horrible cunt but his influence is overstated.  Yes he was probably at the players every day but Ferguson would have had somebody else doing it had he not.  They won plenty of stuff before he had much influence and plenty of stuff after.

 

Ability wise he’s about the same level as Mark Noble.  We had the best box to box midfielder of all time here and we couldn’t win the league.  The 90’s we were too soft and from there on in we hired the wrong managers who were always behind the curve.  Keane wouldn’t have changed any of it.

Keane is on par with Mark Noble ability wise? Similar to saying Jelavic was better than Suarez.

 

Keane was quality. No two ways about it.

[VladimirIlyich]

11 hours ago, The Guest said:

I think it’s fanciful to think we would have won the league had he been here.  United won so many league titles because of Ferguson.  He changed the game and not for the good.  They were horrible cheats.  Yes players had dived before and yes players had “managed” the referee before but they turned it into an art form.  They were horrible cunts surrounding referees whenever anything wasn’t going their way.  Ferguson bullying refs and trying to ruin their career.  Some of the shit that went their way was a disgrace in those title races.  People forget this but the reason the game is the way it is in this country now and generally is because teams and managers had to do the same shit he was pioneering.

 

Keane was an horrible cunt but his influence is overstated.  Yes he was probably at the players every day but Ferguson would have had somebody else doing it had he not.  They won plenty of stuff before he had much influence and plenty of stuff after.

 

Ability wise he’s about the same level as Mark Noble.  We had the best box to box midfielder of all time here and we couldn’t win the league.  The 90’s we were too soft and from there on in we hired the wrong managers who were always behind the curve.  Keane wouldn’t have changed any of it.

I agree with most of your post regarding Ferguson and cheating and exerting pressure on refs and so on but Keane was at least an excellent player if not better. I like Mark Noble but he's nowhere near Keane's class.

[Charles Penrose]

11 hours ago, The Guest said:

I think it’s fanciful to think we would have won the league had he been here.  United won so many league titles because of Ferguson.  He changed the game and not for the good.  They were horrible cheats.  Yes players had dived before and yes players had “managed” the referee before but they turned it into an art form.  They were horrible cunts surrounding referees whenever anything wasn’t going their way.  Ferguson bullying refs and trying to ruin their career.  Some of the shit that went their way was a disgrace in those title races.  People forget this but the reason the game is the way it is in this country now and generally is because teams and managers had to do the same shit he was pioneering.

 

Keane was an horrible cunt but his influence is overstated.  Yes he was probably at the players every day but Ferguson would have had somebody else doing it had he not.  They won plenty of stuff before he had much influence and plenty of stuff after.

 

Ability wise he’s about the same level as Mark Noble.  We had the best box to box midfielder of all time here and we couldn’t win the league.  The 90’s we were too soft and from there on in we hired the wrong managers who were always behind the curve.  Keane wouldn’t have changed any of it.

Fucking hell I bet you were buzzing off that. Absolute nonsense. He was a brilliant footballer and a great Captain for them. You sound exactly like the Mancs and Blues that claim Gerrard wasn't that great either. Embarrassing stuff and up there with the worst posts I’ve seen on this or any other forum from one of ours. I could find the essence of your post on Grand Old Team about us without looking for too long. 

 

Man Utd won titles because they were the best team, with the best manager, with the greatest resources and playing on the edge. Just as many teams before them did and many will in the future. 
 

[The Guest]

2 minutes ago, Charles Penrose said:

Fucking hell I bet you were buzzing off that. Absolute nonsense. He was a brilliant footballer and a great Captain for them. You sound exactly like the Mancs and Blues that claim Gerrard wasn't that great either. Embarrassing stuff and up there with the worst posts I’ve seen on this or any other forum from one of ours. I could find the essence of your post on Grand Old Team about us without looking for too long. 

 

Man Utd won titles because they were the best team, with the best manager, with the greatest resources and playing on the edge. Just as many teams before them did and many will in the future. 
 

And you’re saying that would have changed if Keane was with us instead of them?

[dockers_strike]

The thing with these 'what if' questions is people think it would massively change our title drought years into title winning years. It's like if mourinho had become manager instead of rafa, we'd have won the league. If Schmichel had of been our keeper, we'd have won the league. If keane had of been our captain, we'd have won the league.

 

I think what's often overlooked is the way the club was run back then plus you'd need all those things to come together at the same time. Can anyone say Schmichel or Keane would have been more influential on our team than Gerrard or say Alonso or Torres?

 

Yeah, we might have conceeded less goals with Schmichel but it's a leap of faith to think on his own, he'd have turned us into a side winning multiple titles. Same with Keane, same with mourinho.

[Grinch]

Can you 8maging fat cunt ruddock playing pass the pound with Keane in the team.  Nah me neither. 

 

That's 90s side was extremely unprofessional from top to bottom. 

[Mark M]

52 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

The thing with these 'what if' questions is people think it would massively change our title drought years into title winning years. It's like if mourinho had become manager instead of rafa, we'd have won the league. If Schmichel had of been our keeper, we'd have won the league. If keane had of been our captain, we'd have won the league.

 

I think what's often overlooked is the way the club was run back then plus you'd need all those things to come together at the same time. Can anyone say Schmichel or Keane would have been more influential on our team than Gerrard or say Alonso or Torres?

 

Yeah, we might have conceeded less goals with Schmichel but it's a leap of faith to think on his own, he'd have turned us into a side winning multiple titles. Same with Keane, same with mourinho.

At the time of the his peak it would have been swapping David James for Schmichel - we were in a title race in '97 with a handful of games left when James decided to start dropping clangers all over the place. Schmichel replacing James is the same as Alisson replacing Karius or Mignolet massive upgrade in a vital position.  

[JohnnyH]

We needed Keane to add toughness to our midfield.  We got Ince.

 

If we had Keane in 1996/97 I think we'd have won the league.

 

Keane is now is a gobshite.  He mouths off with nothing to add. The perfect example being his rant about DeGea and Maguire.  We all saw their errors. But he spouts "I wouldn't let them on the team bus going home" instead of a constructive breakdown.  While most smile and see it for what it is and then move on; the idiots lap it up and it somehow morphs into he's a good pundit.  He's not.  And any owner of a club watching him knows he's not.

 

The only managerial jobs he'll get in football now will be in the same way Mardona gets a job - The car crash value at a small unfancied club that doesn't usually get much attention and has a media-whore owner who doesn't care as long as they stay in their lower league.

[Ronnie Whelan]

Noble has been a very decent and likeable premier league player. He comes across well and might become a good manager. He's one of those players that probably deserves to have won 2-3 caps for Ingerlund.

 

Keane was a brilliant player. Just like Souey, he could do it all. Personally, I rate Souey higher, but if I was a Manc maybe I'd think differently. When he was younger, he seems to have been a very heavy drinker. Not like our Spice Boy type of drinker, but definitely out on the town getting in scrapes. My gut feeling is that he would have been a great player with us and we would have won a few titles with him, but I actually don't know would he have reached the level that he did at the Mancs, which for me is the very elite level of footballer. I don't think you can underestimate the culture that Ferguson built and how he was able to manage very different and sometimes challenging characters like Keane. 

 

I remember a thread on Redcafe around the time when Souness went off on one about Pogba that I got sent by a mate. Most of the posters were making out Souness was just a hatchet man who couldn't do half of what Pogba could do. It was embarrasing stuff and to be fair a number of posters called these guys on it.

 

I enjoy Keane as a pundit because it is fireworks all the time and he's liable to say anything. He is mediocre in terms of his technical analysis. However, he was one of the best midfielders I have seen live and I can put tribalism aside in recognisong that.

 

 

[dockers_strike]

59 minutes ago, Mark M said:

At the time of the his peak it would have been swapping David James for Schmichel - we were in a title race in '97 with a handful of games left when James decided to start dropping clangers all over the place. Schmichel replacing James is the same as Alisson replacing Karius or Mignolet massive upgrade in a vital position.  

Yes but you're ignoring other weak links in the team at the time. No disrespect but you're falling into the trap of thinking Schmicel would have saved all the goals that James didnt and effectively cost us a title. The truth is James on his own didnt cost us a title, the team did.

[Charles Penrose]

4 hours ago, The Guest said:

And you’re saying that would have changed if Keane was with us instead of them?

No I’m not saying we’d have won the league. They would have been weaker whilst we would have been stronger. But generally speaking we had too many problems as a club to have made the most out of it anyway. 

[Mark M]

Comparing Keane to Mark Noble is up there with one of the worst takes I've seen. 

[Guest Alex_K]

Noble is and forevever has been bog average. Even if you rank Keane on the lowest-bracket of his peers (Viera, Gerrard, Scholes etc.), a comparison with Noble is quite innovative trolling.

[dave u]

2 hours ago, JohnnyH said:

Keane is now is a gobshite.  He mouths off with nothing to add. The perfect example being his rant about DeGea and Maguire.  We all saw their errors. But he spouts "I wouldn't let them on the team bus going home" instead of a constructive breakdown.  While most smile and see it for what it is and then move on; the idiots lap it up and it somehow morphs into he's a good pundit. 

 

Depends what you're looking for in a pundit. Give me Roy Keane foaming at the mouth over someone like Jermaine Jenas or Alan Shearer telling us that "Harry Maguire will be disappointed with himself there" all day every day.

 

Doesn't make him a great analyst and I'll not argue with anyone who says he's a prick. Just saying, him kicking off over De Gea was way more entertaining than anything else I've seen since footy came back.

[Mark M]

10 minutes ago, dave u said:

 

Depends what you're looking for in a pundit. Give me Roy Keane foaming at the mouth over someone like Jermaine Jenas or Alan Shearer telling us that "Harry Maguire will be disappointed with himself there" all day every day.

 

Doesn't make him a great analyst and I'll not argue with anyone who says he's a prick. Just saying, him kicking off over De Gea was way more entertaining than anything else I've seen since footy came back.

Ye theres too much vanilla type punditry - with old tired cliches - 'at the end of the day' etc.

In Ireland we've had Eamon Dunphy ranting & raving over the years he's a nobody - but made watching HT analysis worthwhile.

 

Keane has definitely decided that its the way to go for him now and weather you think he's putting it on or talking shite Sky said it was the most viewed clip over the whole weekend so theres an interest and appetite for pundits having a go at players - when I see Jamie Redknapp or Clinton Morrison I just can't be arsed listening to it. 

[El Dangerous]

Next time we all have a laugh at the clownish way one of the mental Blues diminish our class with an outlandish take just remember, one of ours thinks Mark Noble is as good as Roy Keane was.

[Ronnie Whelan]

41 minutes ago, Alex_K said:

Noble is and forevever has been bog average. Even if you rank Keane on the lowest-bracket of his peers (Viera, Gerrard, Scholes etc.), a comparison with Noble is quite innovative trolling.

Scholes was a great player, but Keane made him tick. I'd have it (1) Gerrard (2) Keane (3) Vieira (4) Scholes (5) Lampard (6) Petit (7) Essien (8) Makelele. 

 

I feel Souness was a better player than Stevie, but one thing that needs to be acknowledged is that you could probably put on one hand the number of truly great players Stevie played with in his time at the club, whereas Souness and all the players above were surrounded by class. Stevie with Torres/Suarez for example was a thing of beauty.

[Guest]

If Roy Keane hadn't hobbled the player he was angry with (ending his career), I would have have rated him as one of the top midfielders. But he was, is and always will be a fucking thug cunt who should be in prison for his crimes against humanity.

 

Stick that in your bus trip home and smoke it, Keane you fucking staircase.

[El Dangerous]

Meh, great players don’t equal great people. Stevie had his share of bother, Suarez was an absolute weapon and Carragher spat on joe public. Not one of them was any less great at football because of it and in the case of Suarez he was probably better because of his almost criminal competiveness.

[JohnnyH]

1 hour ago, dave u said:

 

Depends what you're looking for in a pundit. Give me Roy Keane foaming at the mouth over someone like Jermaine Jenas or Alan Shearer telling us that "Harry Maguire will be disappointed with himself there" all day every day.

 

Doesn't make him a great analyst and I'll not argue with anyone who says he's a prick. Just saying, him kicking off over De Gea was way more entertaining than anything else I've seen since footy came back.

Yes, the pundits who make banal statements unless praising because they don't want to upset current footballers have no place there.  But I lump Keane in there too because he's just grandstanding. It's the opposite but just as pointless. There's literally been 2 page spread articles about him following his display at the weekend?  It's remarkable. He added nothing of value whatsoever. I do get your comment that it can be a bit entertaining.  I raised a half grin too.  But after the 10th time it just becomes tiresome as it's obviously a show.  He's just playing a character now.  

 

It'll eventually get like Bart when he was famous for his "I didn't do it" catch phrase where the talk show hosts only wanted him on their shows so he'd say it.  The presenters will turn to Roy when a mistakes has happened and give a "So what do you think of THAT Roy?", and sit forward with their mouths agape in a half excited grin while fumbling awkwardly in their pockets as Roy does his little show.

[JohnnyH]

1 hour ago, Ronnie Whelan said:

Scholes was a great player, but Keane made him tick. I'd have it (1) Gerrard (2) Keane (3) Vieira (4) Scholes (5) Lampard (6) Petit (7) Essien (8) Makelele. 

 

I feel Souness was a better player than Stevie, but one thing that needs to be acknowledged is that you could probably put on one hand the number of truly great players Stevie played with in his time at the club, whereas Souness and all the players above were surrounded by class. Stevie with Torres/Suarez for example was a thing of beauty.

 

Keane in second?  A wonderful player not doubt, but no way is he second. And he couldn't "do everything" like you said in a previous post. On your entire list Gerrard is probably the only one who could "do everything". But at their best, Viera was better than Keane, and I think Makelele was too.  I'd also have Yaya Toure ahead of him and I've no idea how he didn't make your list? 

 

Keane was a superb footballer, but 2nd best ever in the PL?  Nope.  Top 10 definitely.  

 

Finally, Souness was ahead of all of those on your list, and streets ahead of Keane.  Souness was a one in a billion.

[Bjornebye]

18 hours ago, The Guest said:

I think it’s fanciful to think we would have won the league had he been here.  United won so many league titles because of Ferguson.  He changed the game and not for the good.  They were horrible cheats.  Yes players had dived before and yes players had “managed” the referee before but they turned it into an art form.  They were horrible cunts surrounding referees whenever anything wasn’t going their way.  Ferguson bullying refs and trying to ruin their career.  Some of the shit that went their way was a disgrace in those title races.  People forget this but the reason the game is the way it is in this country now and generally is because teams and managers had to do the same shit he was pioneering.

 

Keane was an horrible cunt but his influence is overstated.  Yes he was probably at the players every day but Ferguson would have had somebody else doing it had he not.  They won plenty of stuff before he had much influence and plenty of stuff after.

 

Ability wise he’s about the same level as Mark Noble.  We had the best box to box midfielder of all time here and we couldn’t win the league.  The 90’s we were too soft and from there on in we hired the wrong managers who were always behind the curve.  Keane wouldn’t have changed any of it.

Here he is with his boat full of absolute garbage.

[The Guest]

Technically he was bang average.  It’s comical seeing you all fawning over him.  There was nothing exceptional about him.

[Bjornebye]

14 minutes ago, The Guest said:

Technically he was bang average.  It’s comical seeing you all fawning over him.  There was nothing exceptional about him.

Yeah defo on a wind up you.