Bob Crow has passed away

[lifetime fan 10,940]

The term ‘socialism’ has been used to describe positions as far apart as anarchism, Soviet state Communism, and social democracy; however, it necessarily implies an opposition to the untrammelled workings of the economic market. The socialist parties that have arisen in most European countries from the late 19th century have generally tended towards social democracy

 

Oxford dictionaries.

[Strontium Dog™ 8,816]

Stronts, you're just going to have to accept that Socialism is a broad church and your narrow definition doesn't cover everything. Being a socialist, or any of the many variants of it, doesn't mean nobody can be rich. That's a bland, reductionist attempt to dismiss it.

But what we have now is basically light socialism, if people are honest then they'll admit that we have three major parties who espouse varying degrees of social democracy. I can therefore only assume that we're talking about something more extreme than what we have now.

[Gnasher 1,855]

I could have sworn the word "socialism" was mentioned. They do, don't they? How else would society work?

Gary Barlow, Starbucks, Jimmy Carr. Oh there's a few.

[Dr Nowt 24,292]

But what we have now is basically light socialism, if people are honest then they'll admit that we have three major parties who espouse varying degrees of social democracy. I can therefore only assume that we're talking about something more extreme than what we have now.

 

This has to be the biggest trolling post on the site today, including the one asking whether Kenny Dalglish was a big fish in a small pond.

[Gnasher 1,855]

£44k basic for a tube driver, sitting on your arse pressing start, stop, open and close.

 

The man was outstanding at his job.

Worth their weight in gold when the London terrorists hit the tube stations though.

 

I didnt see any management, who are on far more than 44g carrying out blood stained pregnant women from the depths of the underground on my tele.

[Gnasher 1,855]

But what we have now is basically light socialism, if people are honest then they'll admit that we have three major parties who espouse varying degrees of social democracy. I can therefore only assume that we're talking about something more extreme than what we have now.

I'm really really extreme. If my daughter uses London Underground I'd prefer if she could buy a ticket when she walks into the station, have a guard who makes sure everyone gets on the train safely and a fully trained driver to make sure she arrives at her destination in one piece. Fucking Mental Me.

[VladimirIlyich 7,734]

I could have sworn the word "socialism" was mentioned.

 

 

They do, don't they? How else would society work?

Ok I'll play.

 

My definition is simply a fairer distribution of wealth and Government only getting involved in overseeing essential services. 

 

I'd prefer Government not getting involved in legislating industry and corporate businesses but allowing them free reign has shown how irresponsible this behaviour is when allowed to go untethered.

 

The current state of affairs simply doesnt work and needs stopping as its simply pigs in a trough.

 

This applies to the last Labour Government as well as the current one.

[Stu Monty 3,365]

But what we have now is basically light socialism, if people are honest then they'll admit that we have three major parties who espouse varying degrees of social democracy. I can therefore only assume that we're talking about something more extreme than what we have now.

 

I could have sworn the word "socialism" was mentioned.

 

 

They do, don't they? How else would society work?

 

 

So which view do you actually hold? That socialism is not compatible with rich people or that we have "socialism light" in this country?

 

I love the idea of a country that is selling off the NHS being socialism "light" and not neo-liberalism "light".

[fungus 620]

Worth their weight in gold when the London terrorists hit the tube stations though.

I didnt see any management, who are on far more than 44g carrying out blood stained pregnant women from the depths of the underground on my tele.

Not sure what that has to do with anything but compare to that to an ambulance paramedic who earns roughly half that salary and deals with that shit every day and has to actually drive a vehicle that can't be operated by a chimp and deal with traffic

[VladimirIlyich 7,734]

Not sure what that has to do with anything but compare to that to an ambulance paramedic who earns roughly half that salary and deals with that shit every day and has to actually drive a vehicle that can't be operated by a chimp and deal with traffic

The point is that they were considered heroes during the bombings but when asking for better pay and conditions,or job preservation even,they become overpaid and worthless.

Rank hypocrisy.

[stringvest 12,915]

Not sure what that has to do with anything but compare to that to an ambulance paramedic who earns roughly half that salary and deals with that shit every day and has to actually drive a vehicle that can't be operated by a chimp and deal with traffic

That's not an argument to reduce the salary of train drivers.

[fungus 620]

.

[VladimirIlyich 7,734]

So just because you earn less you resent them for earning more?

How about you fight for better wages for yourself then instead of slagging others?

[stringvest 12,915]

Not sure what that has to do with anything but compare to that to an ambulance paramedic who earns roughly half that salary and deals with that shit every day and has to actually drive a vehicle that can't be operated by a chimp and deal with traffic

 

So you're dissing the skill level of a train driver?  for what?  to highlight the shocking salary of a paramedic, or just for shits and giggles?  44K is not a big salary in London, and it certainly isn't for the amount of responsibility that these people have.  

[Lee909 11,700]

Surely rather than say that train drivers earn to much compared to paramedics and nurses we should be finding ways of paying them Nuses more?.

[Jairzinho 23,315]

Surely rather than say that train drivers earn to much compared to paramedics and nurses we should be finding ways of paying them Nuses more?.

 

Absolutely not. Many people on minimum wage do a very good job. Put everyone on minimum wage.

[Scooby Dudek 1,892]

Absolutely not. Many people on minimum wage do a very good job. Put everyone on minimum wage.

If we lower the minimum wage we could increase employment. A win, win for everyone.

 

From our great leader in relation to a 1% pay increase for 50% of NHS staff;

 

"It is right to take difficult decisions.... it means we can keep more people employed"

[stringvest 12,915]

If we lower the minimum wage we could increase employment. A win, win for everyone.

 

From our great leader in relation to a 1% pay increase for 50% of NHS staff;

 

"It is right to take difficult decisions.... it means we can keep more people employed"

 

if we pay everyone nothing we can have full employment

[Jairzinho 23,315]

If we lower the minimum wage we could increase employment. A win, win for everyone.

 

From our great leader in relation to a 1% pay increase for 50% of NHS staff;

 

"It is right to take difficult decisions.... it means we can keep more people employed"

 

I've said it before, we could eliminate unemployment over night by doing a deal with Tesco or McDonalds and getting them to put all the undesirable oiks on zero hour contracts, give them 16 hours and one millisecond's work a week, so they can't claim JSA, all on minimum wage (great shout on lowering it), and hey presto full enslavement, sorry, I mean employment.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Kill the poor.

[Bobby Hundreds 8,672]

Why do these tough decisions always hit the working class. He never talks directly to the wealthy and says tough times mean tough decisions... No bonus this year... Tough times tough decisions.

 

The NHS is unsustainable we have no money.... What the Home Counties are flooded we are a wealthy country money is no object. I like how they pretend they believe in the NHS when its quite clear they are desperate for it to go massively tits up and are poking it and prodding it and its fuck all to do with whats best for the country its entirely about whats best for themselves and the money they can filter in to their greedy mitts. I read kinnocks famous speech about don't be old or ill and I seen that youtube video of tony Ben talking about thatcher leaving and you could be forgiven for thinking they were both made recently because the Tories do this shit every single time. This recession is nothing but an enabler for them. They are a mafia they don't give a shit about consequences as money is the bottom line, there is no bigger picture its a case of fleece as much as you can while you can, tax cuts for business you may want to sit on the board on after your tenure.

 

Bob crow did his job well, he fought for his members I don't know how anyone on the right can knock that, they expect big business to do whats best for their shareholders, he did whats best for his its just his happen to be working class people. Greed at the top is to be envied but wanting more at the bottom is obscene.

[Skidfingers McGonical 2,959]

Strontium Dog, on 13 Mar 2014 - 9:03 PM, said:

 

But what we have now is basically light socialism, if people are honest then they'll admit that we have three major parties who espouse varying degrees of social democracy. I can therefore only assume that we're talking about something more extreme than what we have now.

What absolute bollocks.

 

Tory's - Take from the poor, give to rich.

New Labour - Pretend to take from the rich, pretend to give to the poor but when the rich want it back, give it to them or let them off in the future. But still ensure that the party follow the neo-liberalist policies of the Tory's in a less obvious Tory way.

Lib Dems - Sell out to make sure they get in to bed with some party so they can be walked all over and have no policies at all.

 

 

All three parties are a crock of shit. Big massive steaming piles of shit. Not one of them demosntrates any varying degree of noteworthy social democracy.

 

And you can stick your "Well they increased the tax threshold to around;10k" they also gazve big fuck off tax breaks to the fucking richest aspects of society, and allow the poor to be trampled all over on a daily basis. "We gave free school dinners to those under 7"

 

There should be free school dinners available for all kids, there should also be free education for all and no tuition fees.

[Carvalho Diablo 14,702]

Been a bad week for the working man, first Bob Crow then Tony Benn. I hope the police are dragging in David Cameron for questioning.

[Jairzinho 23,315]

Been a bad week for the working man, first Bob Crow then Tony Benn. I hope the police are dragging in David Cameron for questioning.

 

I hope they're dragging him out of a lake.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I hope they're dragging him out of a lake.

Oof. Laughed out loud at that one.