Should we be playing Gerrard in the Holding Midfield position?

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

Switching Gerrard and Lucas makes both less suited to their role in my opinion. To concentrate on Gerrard his main strengths throughout has been his match winning runs, passes and shots. Or basically his fantastic skills and abilities to produce moments of match winning magic on an extremely frequent basis. This of course is a brilliant asset for an attacking player/midfielder. And also to a large degree for a wide player, and probably one of the main reasons Rafa and others have chosen to play him wide at times. The obvious downside of these attributes and his style of play is of course that attempting these match winning moments all the time, you also have to play with a high risk. There is hardly such a thing as a match winning, safe pass is there.

 

Also under both Houllier and Rafa we had a style of play that meant keeping the team low and compact, and hitting fast and early on the break when we won it. This mean a misplaced pass from Gerrard wouldn't do that much harm, as most of the team would be behind him anyway when he hit the pass. With the style we play under Rodgers we move a lot more bodies forward, and try to break the opposition down with a patient pass and move style. This means that a misplaced pass (especially from a deep position) also brings us into a lot more trouble than necessarily did under the two mentioned above.

 

Another factor mentioned by many is of course that Gerrard is older and his legs are not what they used to be. Which makes him less effective overall of course, I'm not sure if this means we should play him in this or that position. I'm quite sure however that we play to his strenghts and hide his weaknesses by playing him higher up the field like many on here seem to want.

 

Rodgers definately has a tricky decision on his hand here. Gerrard is one of the best players in the history of the club, and clearly is still a very, very good player by any standard.

 

Still I think our best games this season has been with him out. And I think (or fear) that even if it's a limited number of games, this may not be a coincidence.  And if this is the case it's not necissarily because Gerrard is an inferior player to his replacements. But rather to the factors I mentioned above.

 

So play him in a more attackin role or leave him out is probably the right answer. If Rodgers and Gerrard can prove me wrong by making him excel in a DM role, fine, but I do not see this happening.

[Alan Sex]

He should play deep in the hole, penetrating then dribbling out of the box.

[G Richards]

Stevie playing in a midfield three, behind Allen and Henderson (based on current personnel) is the best combo for me. 

 

Stevie needs a bit of time (not long) to learn the playmaker position, but he will offer much more than Lucas (certainly the current Lucas, post knee injury). Stevie's vision and range of passing will come to the fore again. He needs to learn to relax and give it simple a bit more, so he doesn't force the play and give the ball away, but that's the side of the game he will quickly learn. (In the advanced midfield position you are trying to force the play a bit more, as you are trying to carve out opportunities, whereas when you are deeper you can be a bit more patient. Stevie will learn this quickly though, as he is an intelligent player). 

 

Stevie has been a swashbuckling attacking player for us over the years, but those days are now gone. He doesn't burst beyond the strikers very much these days, and his goals from open play have largely dried up. Coutinho, behind Sturridge and Suarez, is the way forward for the front three. Stevie, at this stage of his career, should not interfere with that. 

 

I see the rest of his Liverpool career as a deep lying playmaker. When we have a set piece that needs to be whipped in he can also take that role, as his delivery is excellent. But he no longer has the legs for the pressing, action-packed role I'd expect from Henderson and Allen; nor does he have the attacking ability these days that would suggest to me that he should dislodge Coutinho (even if the young Brazilian is blowing a bit hot and cold at the moment). 

[GJM]

He seems to have attracted a bit of criticism form some quarters for his performance at the weekend, but I thought he did really well at both winning and retaining possession in tight spaces close to our goal. His comfort on the ball and his better passing range (than either Lucas or Allen) seemed to give us an option to open the game up more from deep that we lacked previously. 

 

His weakness, as others have highlighted, was in occasionally trying to force the ball forward too early and giving up possession. Given all else that he has mastered during his career, I am sure that's something that he can figure out. 

 

And whoever said he'd be a better RB option than Johnson at this moment is spot on. I can barely watch him (GJ) play at the moment. He looks like he's having a very long opium dream. It's painful viewing.

[Soleilrouge]

Lucas is better in that role

Gerrard not fast enough into the tackle

Stokjes created muchly against us which is worrying

Gerrard a much better passer normally

Our best performances this year have ben with Lucas in the role - think Spurs away

The midfield against Stoke was not great

[spider-neil]

Lucas is better in that role

Gerrard not fast enough into the tackle

Stokjes created muchly against us which is worrying

Gerrard a much better passer normally

Our best performances this year have ben with Lucas in the role - think Spurs away

The midfield against Stoke was not great

 

Stoke created a shed load of chances against our '08 side and they were genuine title contenders. Stoke is a very difficult ground to visit and we are one of two that has escaped that ground with all 3 points. Any team is going to struggling if you are launching long balls into the penalty area aimed at Crouch's head.

[RedRazor]

While Gerrard has been out I think Rodgers has shown us the blueprint for how he wants the team to play It is a high octane pressing game commiting men forward. Despite being our greatest ever home grown player Gerrard can no longer play in that way for a full 90 minutes.The only role left for him is a deep lying role and that is probably based as much on sentiment and reputation as anything else. When Allen is fit I do not expect Lucas to be in the starting eleven. Gerrard will adapt to the role over the next few games and will give us more than Lucas can.

 

Talk of Gerrard as replacement for Coutinho or Johnson is just wishful thinking, As a right back bursting forward he would be a nightmare as he just would not be able to get up and down the pitch for 90 minutes. Covering for Coutinho I just can't see him doing the work required to put the opposition under pressure when an attack breaks down.

 

Sadly Gerrard is coming to the end of his career and is not the player he used to be. If used carefully in a role that he can deliver we may get another couple of seasons from him before he retires.

[Soleilrouge]

While Gerrard has been out I think Rodgers has shown us the blueprint for how he wants the team to play It is a high octane pressing game commiting men forward. Despite being our greatest ever home grown player Gerrard can no longer play in that way for a full 90 minutes.The only role left for him is a deep lying role and that is probably based as much on sentiment and reputation as anything else. When Allen is fit I do not expect Lucas to be in the starting eleven. Gerrard will adapt to the role over the next few games and will give us more than Lucas can.

 

Talk of Gerrard as replacement for Coutinho or Johnson is just wishful thinking, As a right back bursting forward he would be a nightmare as he just would not be able to get up and down the pitch for 90 minutes. Covering for Coutinho I just can't see him doing the work required to put the opposition under pressure when an attack breaks down.

 

Sadly Gerrard is coming to the end of his career and is not the player he used to be. If used carefully in a role that he can deliver we may get another couple of seasons from him before he retires.

 

 

I do not agree Stevie G better than Lucas in the role as the esence of the role is to provide cover and break up the play and I dont believe Gerrard is quick enough around the pitch to  disturb play and Lucas is more mobile and gets there quicker and has better postional sense and is an allr-und more destructive player which I think is exactly what you need

[Horus]

While Gerrard has been out I think Rodgers has shown us the blueprint for how he wants the team to play It is a high octane pressing game commiting men forward. Despite being our greatest ever home grown player Gerrard can no longer play in that way for a full 90 minutes.The only role left for him is a deep lying role and that is probably based as much on sentiment and reputation as anything else. When Allen is fit I do not expect Lucas to be in the starting eleven. Gerrard will adapt to the role over the next few games and will give us more than Lucas can.

 

Talk of Gerrard as replacement for Coutinho or Johnson is just wishful thinking, As a right back bursting forward he would be a nightmare as he just would not be able to get up and down the pitch for 90 minutes. Covering for Coutinho I just can't see him doing the work required to put the opposition under pressure when an attack breaks down.

 

Sadly Gerrard is coming to the end of his career and is not the player he used to be. If used carefully in a role that he can deliver we may get another couple of seasons from him before he retires.

 

Pretty much spot on, but squeezing Gerrard into that role is just trying to keep him as a first team player, rather than taking it on a game by game basis is short sighted. Some weeks he could offer an alternative to Sterling, others he could give 60mins or the last 30 in midfield etc. But the way we played against city and spurs, is a pipe dream with Gerrard in that role. He can't close down or press for the game.

 

In order to get the best out of him, he needs to have less time on the pitch, but further up, not more time on the pitch, and further back.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

He seems to have attracted a bit of criticism form some quarters for his performance at the weekend, but I thought he did really well at both winning and retaining possession in tight spaces close to our goal. His comfort on the ball and his better passing range (than either Lucas or Allen) seemed to give us an option to open the game up more from deep that we lacked previously. 

 

His weakness, as others have highlighted, was in occasionally trying to force the ball forward too early and giving up possession. Given all else that he has mastered during his career, I am sure that's something that he can figure out. 

 

And whoever said he'd be a better RB option than Johnson at this moment is spot on. I can barely watch him (GJ) play at the moment. He looks like he's having a very long opium dream. It's painful viewing.

 

I'm not sure it's that simple. I'm not saying he's not an intelligent player, but at heart he's an AM, every instinct he has is to look for a player making a forward run. He's spent a career - and pulled us out of so many holes - doing so. It's like his eyes are trained to pick out movement towards the goal, not judge how many five yard one-twos to play to slowly drag a midfield line out of position and lower the tempo when necessary.

 

I'd love nothing more than to think he'd excel there and play until he's 40, but it just seems like using an ex-Grand National winner to pull a milk float because of age, injury and circumstance.

 

He may only be able to last 60 minutes in a forward role, but I can't see how he wouldn't be putting away the kind of chances Coutinho misses.

[Jairzinho]

He seems to have attracted a bit of criticism form some quarters for his performance at the weekend, but I thought he did really well at both winning and retaining possession in tight spaces close to our goal. His comfort on the ball and his better passing range (than either Lucas or Allen) seemed to give us an option to open the game up more from deep that we lacked previously. 

 

His weakness, as others have highlighted, was in occasionally trying to force the ball forward too early and giving up possession. Given all else that he has mastered during his career, I am sure that's something that he can figure out. 

 

And whoever said he'd be a better RB option than Johnson at this moment is spot on. I can barely watch him (GJ) play at the moment. He looks like he's having a very long opium dream. It's painful viewing.

 

1 in every 4 passes went to the opposition.

 

The deepest midfielder really does need to be finishing games with a 90% pass completion rate. Obviously there is far, far more to the game, and indeed to his game, but its a fairly fundamental requirement for your deepest midfielder that he doesn't give the ball away frequently. That's Lee Cattermole right there.

 

The role just couldn't possibly suit Gerrard any less. He's a player that wants to impact on games. That wants to force the issue. It doesn't make any sense to try and convert him into a player that plays neat little five yard one twos. It sort of works for England where the game is played at half the pace, but for them he has a license to go forward, and because England are fucking shit and have no expectations of winning anything, ever. The problems for them are so big that Stevie giving the ball away in dangerous areas occasionally, or being a long way out of position, are almost irrelevant.

 

I really, really hope this is knocked on the head quite quickly, although it seems unlikely. He's one of the greatest players to ever play for the club and this experiment to try and completely change his game at the age of 33 isn't going to work. People citing Alonso and Pirlo, they've always been deep lying playmakers. They've always been players that attempt to control the tempo of a game.

 

It looks like a way to just ensure he plays every week. I'd much rather he played every other week, but had a huge impact on the team.

 

He'll probably break down again at some point as well. Because however much people want to say he won't be a DM, once the ball gets past the two midfielders ahead of him that becomes his role. He has to protect the back four, which at times is a back two with our fullbacks getting forward. And if we're going to continue playing an expansive game, often breaking at speed, which I hope we do, then the midfield three is going to, at times, be strung out over half the pitch. I don't want the finest striker of a football at the club, as shown by his excellent free kick delivery, aged 33, being the man having to chase some forward ten years his junior 70 yards.

 

Pick two from Allen/Henderson/Lucas as the two deeper midfielders. Pick four from Suarez/Sturridge/Sterling/Coutinho/Gerrard as the most attacking players.

[TheHowieLama]

1But he tried something like 15 long balls out of the back - 10 of which did not complete. There is your difference to the 90%. TBH losing the ball to their fullback after a 35 yard attempt to our winger is alot different.

 

I think anyone who doesn't think Gerrard would be a better option than Lucas is a pro-beaner tbh.

[Jairzinho]

1But he tried something like 15 long balls out of the back - 10 of which did not complete. There is your difference to the 90%. TBH losing the ball to their fullback after a 35 yard attempt to our winger is alot different.

 

 

Yeah, that's kind of my point.

[TheHowieLama]

Yeah, that's kind of my point.

 

You're right, he's probably not bright enough to figure that part out.

[No2]

There is definitely some merit in at least trying him in that role. Stoke created a fair bit but they also conceded 5 and could have quite easily conceded 3 or 4 more.  He played a few needlessly risky passes that Lucas wouldn't attempt but he will learn quite quickly when and where to play the forward passes. It all looked a bit messy at times but Lucas and Gerrard where both playing in unfamiliar positions and we had a defensive partnership that don't seem to speak to each other. Give it a couple of games before we go spending money on a player we may not need after all.

 

Gerrard has a range of passing that Lucas or anyone else for that matter can only dream of, any team that competes with us high up the pitch is going to have to deal with the reality that Sterling, Suarez and Sturridge are waiting 50 yards away with tonnes of space to work in. If I was an opposition manager I wouldn't be too keen on those 3 being let loose on my back four, it will result it teams giving us more respect, packing in the pressing game and just sitting back awaiting the inevitable. 

[No2]

1 in every 4 passes went to the opposition.

 

The deepest midfielder really does need to be finishing games with a 90% pass completion rate. Obviously there is far, far more to the game, and indeed to his game, but its a fairly fundamental requirement for your deepest midfielder that he doesn't give the ball away frequently. That's Lee Cattermole right there.

 

The role just couldn't possibly suit Gerrard any less. He's a player that wants to impact on games. That wants to force the issue. It doesn't make any sense to try and convert him into a player that plays neat little five yard one twos. It sort of works for England where the game is played at half the pace, but for them he has a license to go forward, and because England are fucking shit and have no expectations of winning anything, ever. The problems for them are so big that Stevie giving the ball away in dangerous areas occasionally, or being a long way out of position, are almost irrelevant.

 

I really, really hope this is knocked on the head quite quickly, although it seems unlikely. He's one of the greatest players to ever play for the club and this experiment to try and completely change his game at the age of 33 isn't going to work. People citing Alonso and Pirlo, they've always been deep lying playmakers. They've always been players that attempt to control the tempo of a game.

 

It looks like a way to just ensure he plays every week. I'd much rather he played every other week, but had a huge impact on the team.

 

He'll probably break down again at some point as well. Because however much people want to say he won't be a DM, once the ball gets past the two midfielders ahead of him that becomes his role. He has to protect the back four, which at times is a back two with our fullbacks getting forward. And if we're going to continue playing an expansive game, often breaking at speed, which I hope we do, then the midfield three is going to, at times, be strung out over half the pitch. I don't want the finest striker of a football at the club, as shown by his excellent free kick delivery, aged 33, being the man having to chase some forward ten years his junior 70 yards.

 

Pick two from Allen/Henderson/Lucas as the two deeper midfielders. Pick four from Suarez/Sturridge/Sterling/Coutinho/Gerrard as the most attacking players.

Gullit, Hoddle, Rykjaard, Matteus, even Barnes and Giggs, all brilliant footballers who extended their careers by accepting the fact their body couldn't do things it once could. We either give this new role a go and get another 3 or 4 years out of an outstanding footballer or we wave good bye next year.

[The Guest]

It's been obvious that this is the direction he's been going in for a number of years.  I remember people disagreeing with me a while ago that it would be better for the current team if he plays as the holding midfielder.  It's so fucking obvious when you look at it.  He's bigger, stronger, a better tackler and better in the air than Lucas.  He also does not have the energy to press the in the way all of our forward players do in the current system.  Therefore he was always going to end up there.

 

It's well and good demanding he be played further up the pitch because of his finishing etc.  The fact is we don't really see much evidence that his finishing is still as good as it was.  As he has gone back into a more central/defensive midfield role his assist totals are still up there with the best in the league.  His goal totals aren't.  He is a great all round footballer that could adapt to any position.  At the moment we are great going forward because we have a great attacking part to our side.  We don't need Gerrard there.  We are going to struggle to accomodate Suarez, Sturridge, Coutinho, Sterling and Henderson as it is.  I don't know where people think Gerrard would fit in.

 

If we come away from this and say yes okay he can't play in a forward role.  Then where does he play?  Is he better than any other players in their positions or should he be left out?  The obvious answer is defensive midfield.  A position that a braindead non league player could play to an acceptable standard.  He could even go there and roll the ball sideways and backwards all game if you wanted him to and come away with 110% pass completion.  What will probably happen though is he will play there, sweep up to at least the same standard of any other player we have or any other player in the league, but what he also offers is creativity.  Creativity from a position that not many other sides in the league have.

 

He gave the ball away a few times in semi-dangerous positions the other day.  It's something that can be ironed out and I've seen Lucas do it plenty of times in the past anyway so we aren't losing anything.  I imagine this on top of him creating chances for the side will pull his pass completion down to a level below your average braindead holding midfielder but to be honest I doubt there's a correlation between pass completion of your holding midfielder and winning games anyway.  Statistics are complete bollocks for me anyway.  Gerrard could give the ball away 5 times hitting great creative passes which are cut out by great defensive play or bad forward play.  Lucas could hit 4 sideways rollers and on his fifth one roll it to the opposition in our half.  Lucas then comes away looking the better player to the stats mongs out there.

 

Just getting away from the position he's a better player than Lucas in every way, shape or form anyway.  Lucas doesn't do anything that Gerrard could not be instructed to do.  Lucas is not fitter, stronger or faster than Gerrard despite being a lot younger than him.  Maybe in a few years that could become an argument but it's not now.  He is also better technically with the ball in every way.  I think the biggest fear for some people is that it's going to cost Lucas his place in the team and it's clouding their judgement.  I suppose it's fair enough.  When you're up Lucas' arse it appears you're there for life so I suppose they can't help it.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

Part of the problem is the personnel that'd be in front of him. Henderson and Allen look to him to do something, ceding to his passing vision as most younger players would. This leads to a bunch up and fairly static midfield and Gerrard having to look for a speculative longer pass.

 

It'll not only take training Gerrard in this new position, but the rest of the team to recognise what they should and shouldn't be relying on him to do.

[spider-neil]

The return of Allen is ulitmately going to show whether this can work or not. You can't judge it with Lucas in the Allen position because he doesn't have the mobility or passing ability or the ability to turn (pivot) when under pressure from the opposition.

 

With Allen and Henderson the entire team can push right up the pitch safe that the ball will stick with Gerrard dropping almost between the centre backs to collect the ball and start attacks (another plus point and Skrtel's distribution is pretty poor). so I'm expecting this

 

-------------------------Mignolet------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------------------

---------------Skrtel--------------Sakho----------------------

-------------------------Gerrard-------------------------------

Fullback---------------------------------------------Fullback

-----------------Allen----------Henderson------------------

----------Sterling--------Sturridge-------Suarez---------

 

 

So the idea is little gets past Henderson and Allen and all Gerrard has to do is mop up the little the does get past them. But you get the added bonus of Gerrard helping the defenders distribute the ball and pick out the runs of Sterling and Sturridge.

 

Not saying it will work but I can see why Brendan is giving it a go.

[Rotpeter]

Xabi on hearing Gerrard is to reprise the Alonso Role.

 

[JermainePennant]

Gerrard could piss the dm role is he put his mind to it and wanted to but he still has the attacking urge.

 

If rodgers drills it in to the head that he needs to go into every game with the idea of getting atleast a 90% pass rate and closing down the other cms he could be one of the best imo.He has all the attributes and being a former attacking midfielder he should have a good idea whats in opposition players minds.

 

For this to happen rodgers needs to have gerrard playing dm and nowhere else as I said drill it in to his head that thats his role, right now hes fighting it and trying to get involved too much and trying long passes to try start attacks when a simple ball would have been better.

 

Id rather we get a top energetic dm though who gerrard could play alongside, he would still be a dm but would have license to get forward a bit more.

[Carvalho Diablo]

I think G Richards is the best poster on this forum.

 

Apart from Alan Sex, obvs.

[TheHowieLama]

My guess is he is an anti-beaner.

[MLB]

I don't really agree with the idea that the DM (or "deep lying playmaker" if you prefer) should be the one who doesn't have the legs to run for 90 minutes. If anything the opposite is true.

[Delmar]

Sure he can play there, provided that Lucas, Henderson, and Allen are all injured.  The least running is needed in the number 10 position, play him there.  Coutinho can play one of the wide forward roles, and anyway, he needs a break right now.  A young kid with massive expectations.