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Mohamed Salah

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A lot of this stuff is by the by anyway imo, regardless of who gets paid what, both our star attackers phoned it in during our most crucial period of the season - of any season - and are clearly leaking stories trying to squeeze the club for 'a number'. It's not even a specific number that they've seemingly calculated as being what they're worth or as what they'll need to retire, but simply 'more than him', or 'parity with them'.

 

It's the kind of shit you'd have expected from John Terry and I can't be doing with it.

 

Having had the Torres and Suarez experience I just can't be arsed with this type of shit and would rather they were honourably discharged this summer. We can't lose anyone on a free or to a rival, there's a fucking principle here.

 

Once again though it's a sad reminder that you can never let your guard down with players. Love wisely but not too well.

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10 minutes ago, dave u said:

Goals v clean sheets is irrelevant.

 

The club's view is we've always had great strikers. Owen, Fowler, Suarez, Torres etc but we only became a great team when Van Dijk and Alisson arrived.

 

You can find someone else to score goals, we always have.

 

I mean fucking hell, Son scored the same league goals as Mo and he didnt even have any pens in there. Replacing what Salah brings is easier than replacing Van Dijk.

 

Ideally we wouldnt need to replace either, but one is happy with the contract he has and the other isn't.

I get the point you are making, but that still means we don't see the market through a world lense and only our own lense. Goalscorers will always attract the most interest and salary, so we aren't in a situation where vvd is competing with Salah. We are in a situation where Liverpool are competing with whatever is on offer out there. I'm sure if you go back to earlier in this thread, most people would have said 300-350ish would be a fair deal, this knowing full well vvd isn't earning that. 

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17 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Goals win football matches. They will always be the most valuable commodity there is. You could claim it was the man of the match performance from courtois at the weekend that won madrid the cup, yet without the goal, they haven't won. 

 

I'm not saying goalkeepers or defenders have no value, but they just don't carry the value of a goalscorer. 

 

As for vvd goals.... He's not the most prolific centre back, but he does ok. And that combined with his defending make him currently the best paid player at the club and before his contract renewal he was in the top 3 or 4. Nobody is saying he has no value, it's just goals will always be valued more, because they are the most valuable thing in football. 

 

 

We became a terrible side with our defensive injuries last season. Not just at the back, but in attack. 

 

Van Dijk's importance in that realm is not just goals and set pieces, it's in allowing us to defend higher, which allows us to be more dangerous in attack by putting pressure on teams. And then his passing as well.

 

Maybe, goals are more important than stopping goals, but I don't think it's false that van Dijk is both more important and unique than Salah. I also think we saw his overarching importance last season. Ultimately, that's what it's about. One has potential replacements available, one likely doesn't.

 

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7 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

We became a terrible side with our defensive injuries last season. Not just at the back, but in attack. 

 

Van Dijk's importance in that realm is not just goals and set pieces, it's in allowing us to defend higher, which allows us to be more dangerous in attack by putting pressure on teams. And then his passing as well.

 

Maybe, goals are more important than stopping goals, but I don't think it's false that van Dijk is both more important and unique than Salah. I also think we saw his overarching importance last season. Ultimately, that's what it's about. One has potential replacements available, one likely doesn't.

 

You're both making valid points, but Barry is making a general one while yours only really 3 stacks up with VVD.

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3 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

We became a terrible side with our defensive injuries last season. Not just at the back, but in attack. 

 

Van Dijk's importance in that realm is not just goals and set pieces, it's in allowing us to defend higher, which allows us to be more dangerous in attack by putting pressure on teams. And then his passing as well.

 

Maybe, goals are more important than stopping goals, but I don't think it's false that van Dijk is both more important and unique than Salah. I also think we saw his overarching importance last season. Ultimately, that's what it's about. One has potential replacements available, one likely doesn't.

 

I'm not saying vvd is not important. I'm also not saying we didn't suffer last year. But we weren't just missing vvd, we went into the season 1 CB light and we played a bloke who was pretty much amateur with another who'd played a couple of dozen German 2nd tier games by the age of 23, who was as slow as a car without fuel. So if we had matip and konate, do you think we couldn't play a high line and employ the tactics we do today? I think with any 2 from our current 4 centre backs, that system would work just fine. 

 

Anyway, it's time for me to put the phone away for one day. For me this isn't a battle between vvd and Salah. It's a battle of us offering Salah a deal that he thinks is fair in the market conditions outside of our club. Bosman allows him to think like that, we don't own him, he's not a slave. So if we want him to stay, we need to balance what we can offer as a club (so his happiness of living down the road, being at a club that wins etc) with a salary that he believes we value him as others do. And if he doesn't like what we offer, he's entitled to look elsewhere. For Liverpool's side, if we think football is only about vvd and other footballers will make their personal decisions based only what vvd earns, then I think we will have to accept in this case we'll lose our man. 

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2 hours ago, VladimirIlyich said:

What???

We dominate matches and spend 70% of games within 40 yards of the opposition goal while the opposition cling on for 0-0. In those games vvd has virtually no defending to do - most of our home games are like this. Where as Salah (and the other forwards) are constantly needing to make things happen. When they don't, they get called out for poor games, but the performance of the centre backs and keeper doesn't register as a good or bad game, because they have so little to do. So obviously the forwards "have periods of the season" or whatever the phrase used was of not contributing. Because all sportsmen don't peak twice a week for 10 months of the year and have peaks and troughs of form. In this Liverpool team, that's more noticeable in our forwards and midfielders. If you're Everton for example, the form of defenders can be very clear, it's far less obvious for us. 

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We scored c.150 goals this season, we clearly aren't reliant on 1 player. 

 

The team was in its best form when Mo was in his worst form. 

 

If Mane was staying, I wouldn't be against letting Mo leave this summer but as it is, I wouldn't be letting both go.

 

Unless it's Newcastle, I don't see him going to another English side, it'll be Spain.

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12 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

I get the point you are making, but that still means we don't see the market through a world lense and only our own lense. Goalscorers will always attract the most interest and salary, so we aren't in a situation where vvd is competing with Salah. We are in a situation where Liverpool are competing with whatever is on offer out there. I'm sure if you go back to earlier in this thread, most people would have said 300-350ish would be a fair deal, this knowing full well vvd isn't earning that. 

 

I agree with all of that, but the club's perspective is that no one is more important to our success than Van Dijk so they don't want to pay anyone more than him (and certainly not over a 100k a week more).

 

Goalscorers always get paid more but who knows, that might begin to change, and even if it doesn't there are always outliers to it and Van Dijk has to be an outlier really as he's unique. We've got great centre backs and Matip has been right up there with Van Dijk this season. Even allowing for that, Van Dijk just brings things that no-one else does and that makes him much more difficult to replace.

 

I'll admit my stance on this is different now than it was when Mo was scoring every game, but it's also changing because I'm starting to feel resentful about the whole thing. His agent has been a twat throughout the whole saga and I'm also not down with paying Mo the kind of salary he's asking for when the goals have dried up just when we needed them most.

 

Bottom line, if you want to be seen as (and paid like) 'the man' then you fucking show up on the biggest occasions (ie finals) and show everyone you are the man (like Gerrard and Owen did). That's what the true greats have always done. He hasn't. So I'm not paying him what he wants if it's up to me.

 

I understand others disagree and would pay him what he wants, but I'm no longer in that camp.

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3 minutes ago, dave u said:

 

I agree with all of that, but the club's perspective is that no one is more important to our success than Van Dijk so they don't want to pay anyone more than him (and certainly not over a 100k a week more).

 

Goalscorers always get paid more but who knows, that might begin to change, and even if it doesn't there are always outliers to it and Van Dijk has to be an outlier really as he's unique. We've got great centre backs and Matip has been right up there with Van Dijk this season. Even allowing for that, Van Dijk just brings things that no-one else does and that makes him much more difficult to replace.

 

I'll admit my stance on this is different now than it was when Mo was scoring every game, but it's also changing because I'm starting to feel resentful about the whole thing. His agent has been a twat throughout the whole saga and I'm also not down with paying Mo the kind of salary he's asking for when the goals have dried up just when we needed them most.

 

Bottom line, if you want to be seen as (and paid like) 'the man' then you fucking show up on the biggest occasions (ie finals) and show everyone you are the man (like Gerrard and Owen did). That's what the true greats have always done. He hasn't. So I'm not paying him what he wants if it's up to me.

 

I understand others disagree and would pay him what he wants, but I'm no longer in that camp.

Paying him what he wants and offering him about the same as Marcus rashford are 2 different things though. Surely there's some middle ground? The articles yesterday all refer to the fact talks broke down because the 2 sides are so far apart. Perhaps they shouldn't have been so far apart - unless of course the outcome we feel happiest with is the direction we're travelling right now where we lose him for free? 

 

As for his agent, they're literally paid to be bellends. If players wanted to be represented by nice people, they'd probably do it themselves. They hire agents to do the necessary things to get them a deal they couldn't do themselves. All agents are bellends and you notice it most when they manage one of your best players you can't do a deal with. What his agent does I could care less about. 

 

I do agree with your general point about Salah's performances across the finals this season and there's no doubt he's dropped off since afcon. But perhaps we needed to make sure he had rest after playing as many games as he did? And I don't mean sitting on the bench, just go on holiday for a week and completely recharge. These are the risks you take when hiring players from countries who's internationals come during our season. Although I would let that form part of any wage negotiation. 

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31 minutes ago, dave u said:

 

His agent has been a twat throughout the whole saga 

His agent was boasting to journalists towards the end of Mo's first season with us that he'd be looking to move him on the following summer. It's been quite a surprise it's taken him so long to reveal his essential twatness. 

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8 minutes ago, gkmacca said:

His agent was boasting to journalists towards the end of Mo's first season with us that he'd be looking to move him on the following summer. It's been quite a surprise it's taken him so long to reveal his essential twatness. 

Which goes to my point earlier (maybe in the mane thread) we never thought for a minute when we signed firmino, Salah and mane on 4 year.deal close to each other that all 3 would still be with us now. 

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I take the point about agents and them being paid to be knobheads, but Mo's is right up there with that Aidy Ward wanker. You don't have to be like that.

 

For example, anyone know who Sadio's agent is? I haven't a clue because he hasn't been all over socials acting the cunt.

 

Edit: Just googled it and found this comment from the agent, which is poles apart from the stuff we're getting from the tit who represents Mo.

 

"We talk a lot with Liverpool but currently we are not talking about a contract extension, we are waiting for the end of the season.”

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5 minutes ago, dave u said:

I take the point about agents and them being paid to be knobheads, but Mo's is right up there with that Aidy Ward wanker. You don't have to be like that.

 

For example, anyone know who Sadio's agent is? I haven't a clue because he hasn't been all over socials acting the cunt.

 

Edit: Just googled it and found this comment from the agent, which is poles apart from the stuff we're getting from the tit who represents Mo.

 

"We talk a lot with Liverpool but currently we are not talking about a contract extension, we are waiting for the end of the season.”

It seems they are not talking with anybody at Liverpool at all now. More with other clubs,allegedly.

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1 minute ago, VladimirIlyich said:

It seems they are not talking with anybody at Liverpool at all now. More with other clubs,allegedly.

 

Well it doesn't seem like Liverpool have been particularly bothered about tying Sadio down either. Trying to do a deal with Salah but realising it's unlikely and he'll leave for nothing, so Mané is the sacrificial lamb here as they can get a fee for him.

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3 minutes ago, dave u said:

 

Well it doesn't seem like Liverpool have been particularly bothered about tying Sadio down either. Trying to do a deal with Salah but realising it's unlikely and he'll leave for nothing, so Mané is the sacrificial lamb here as they can get a fee for him.

I dont think either of us know what's actually been going on as we have only heard Sadio say anything on the subject.

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I was previously in the keep him at all costs camp. It’s actually starting to really piss me off now. If this continues into next season I think he will start to lose a lot of the goodwill he has built up in his time here. It’s really not a good look especially as he hasn’t been able to back it up on the pitch for months on end. If he doesn’t sign we really should try and get a few bob and a replacement this summer. Easier said than done obviously. 

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1 minute ago, VladimirIlyich said:

I dont think either of us know what's actually been going on as we have only heard Sadio say anything on the subject.

 

We don't know what was offered and what wasn't. We also don't know what Sadio's actual thoughts on it are as his comments last week were just fucking mental if he is indeed planning on leaving. I still can't get my head around all that "great news" madness he came out with.

 

I absolutely believe the club are only considering selling him because Salah is threatening to leave for nothing in 12 months and there's no way they will allow both to go for free. If Sadio is open to moving on then they won't try especially hard to keep him because they'll want the fee.

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1 minute ago, dave u said:

 

We don't know what was offered and what wasn't. We also don't know what Sadio's actual thoughts on it are as his comments last week were just fucking mental if he is indeed planning on leaving. I still can't get my head around all that "great news" madness he came out with.

 

I absolutely believe the club are only considering selling him because Salah is threatening to leave for nothing in 12 months and there's no way they will allow both to go for free. If Sadio is open to moving on then they won't try especially hard to keep him because they'll want the fee.

My own opinion is that Klopp is not particularly disappointed to let Sadio go,in a Mane v Salah situation,but only because Mane seems to get more of a titty lip on than Salah and especially since AFCON. Purely an opinion though.

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Reached the stage where we'd all rather he went I think. And it may get to the stage where we look back on Sadio and Mo as great players yes, but not 'legends'. Cause this isn't how legends behave

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23 minutes ago, dave u said:

I take the point about agents and them being paid to be knobheads, but Mo's is right up there with that Aidy Ward wanker. You don't have to be like that.

 

For example, anyone know who Sadio's agent is? I haven't a clue because he hasn't been all over socials acting the cunt.

 

Edit: Just googled it and found this comment from the agent, which is poles apart from the stuff we're getting from the tit who represents Mo.

 

"We talk a lot with Liverpool but currently we are not talking about a contract extension, we are waiting for the end of the season.”

There's a difference though. Mane wants out, so needs to play ball so Liverpool accept a fee that allows him to go to his preferred destination. I think it's clear Mo wants to stay, but he wants to stay if he's paid what he believes is an appropriate amount, so his agent is trying every trick in the book to get Liverpool to a point where there's a negotiation can happen. 

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