Luis Suarez: The little magician

[razor]

Nah, it's not. I'd say the instances of footballers going out to intentionally injure another one are fairly rare.

 

I disagree completely.

 

And when one player is as villified as Suarez was last season (and early this) there is a complicit countenance by the surrounding elements which create the context - players, fans, media, referees.

 

You only have to look at the outright assaults Suarez was suffering last season, the total lack of protection from referees, the complicit countenance by a "source" from the Referees' Association to see that the conditions were created that made kicking Luis Suarez then running after the referee claiming a dive, totally acceptable.

 

What makes one man's challenge "robust" and another's "dirty and underhand"?  Well, I would argue that the answer is "the national interest".

 

 

 

And in case anyone had forgotten, or understandably cannot comprehend that such a thing would be said, here is that wonderful quote in full after Brendan had tried to point out the inconsistencies in refereeing that meant kicking that foreign cheating racist Suarez had become an accepted part of the game...

 

'Brendan Rodgers isn't the first manager to try it on,' said a referees' source. 'He has been reminded that Kenny Dalglish did the same thing as Liverpool manager last season and it didn't work for him. It won't work for Brendan, either. There have been phone calls which have relayed that message. It is pretty clear.'

[Major Tom]

I disagree completely..

 

What makes one man's challenge "robust" and another's "dirty and underhand"?  Well, I would argue that the answer is "the national interest"

Happy to disagree, Razor. Let's see if Suarez makes the WC next year, or not.

[SCOUSE TAPAS]

Happy to disagree, Razor. Let's see if Suarez makes the WC next year, or not.

With how hated Luis has become over here for various things. His built in destruct button for trying as hard as he can to provide the press and supporters from other clubs with reasons to hate him surely means he is going t o score either a hat trick or winning goal against England.

[Major Tom]

With how hated Luis has become over here for various things. His built in destruct button for trying as hard as he can to provide the press and supporters from other clubs with reasons to hate him surely means he is going t o score either a hat trick or winning goal against England.

Well, personally,I think that is a far more likely scenario than some English PL defender intentionally putting him out of the WC between now and May.

[razor]

Yes, I'm not arguing that that will happen, per se.  What I was arguing was that I think that players intentionally go out to hurt an opponent far more than you do.

 

I would use the examples of the treatment of Suarez last year as a prime example. And this year too judging by the derby.

 

Is there outrage at this treatment?  No.  Because the conditions that allowed it to happen were created by the same people who would leap to the defence of serial divers from these shores.

 

The first time I noticed the bias of referees in all this was when Bryan Robson used to run round booting people off the park, screaming at referees etc, and hardly ever got a yellow card for it as he was England captain.  This mantle and privilege has been passed on and on and extends to every England player.  Rooney is a robust gritty street fighter, Nigel de Jong is an underhand thug. Etc etc ad nausem.  This is what I mean by national interest.

 

Do I think that players would go out to injure a player to put them out of an international tournament?  I wouldn't say that would be their primary motivation. 

 

Do I think Suarez will play in the World Cup?  Yes. 

 

Do I think he'll be the victim of many tackles deliberately aimed to injure him between now and then?  Yes.

 

Do I think this will arouse outrage in the press / FA / LMA / Refs Association?  No, not at all.  He's not Wayne Rooney.

[Major Tom]

Well, I think if players intentionally went out to injure others, we'd see more injuries and more injuries to key players. We saw from Keane's cowardly assault on Haangeland (sp) that if you want to go out and intentionally injure a specific player, it's easy enough. But how often do we see that?

 

If Spurs see us as a fellow contender for a top four spot, will we see them them target Suarez for an injury next week? Or we will target one of their key players? My guess is not. My contention is that players rarely go out with the intention to injure fellow professionals.

[razor]

Exhibit A - Fat Frank on Xabi Alonso, January 1st 2005.

 

I couldn't find a video of it.

 

But here's ENGLAND CAPTAIN John "JT" Terry smashing into Milner and getting a cheeky yellow.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McOxoOSuX_8

[Major Tom]

Do you think Carra went out with the intention of injuring Nani a couple of years back, razor? Or just a mistimed tackle?

 

Gerrard last week? Was he hoping to elbow Barry? Or nothing intentional?

[Jairzinho]

Happy to disagree, Razor. Let's see if Suarez makes the WC next year, or not.

 

This is hardly going to be conclusive proof that no-one tried to injure him.

 

Which is why I can't, and won't, take the bet you offered.

[Jairzinho]

Do you think Carra went out with the intention of injuring Nani a couple of years back, razor? Or just a mistimed tackle?

 

Gerrard last week? Was he hoping to elbow Barry? Or nothing intentional?

 

No idea about the Nani challenge. I wouldn't be entirely surprised if Carragher wanted to let the soft cunt "know he was there". This, like most things, doesn't really have a clear yes or no answer for every example.

 

The context of the Gerrard/Barry incident is that by all accounts they're pretty good mates, so it seems unlikely Gerrard would want to hurt him.

 

Agger v Torres a couple of years ago. 100% Agger wanted to hurt him.

[Major Tom]

This is hardly going to be conclusive proof that no-one tried to injure him.

 

Which is why I can't, and won't, take the bet you offered.

I think if one player wants to injure another one, it would be easily done.

[Major Tom]

No idea about the Nani challenge. I wouldn't be entirely surprised if Carragher wanted to let the soft cunt "know he was there". This, like most things, doesn't really have a clear yes or no answer for every example.

 

The context of the Gerrard/Barry incident is that by all accounts they're pretty good mates, so it seems unlikely Gerrard would want to hurt him.

 

Agger v Torres a couple of years ago. 100% Agger wanted to hurt him.

Carra said it was the worst tackle of his career. I personally have little doubt it was done with an intention to injure.

 

Agree re Gerrard. If he wanted to elbow Barry, he could've and would've done so easily enough.

 

Have you ever gone into a tackle on someone with the intention to injure them? Did you succeed?

[Jarvinja Ilnow]

There's a difference between trying to end someone's career and giving them a smack that will soften them up or keep them out for a while. Like that Norwich twat centre half who smacked Luis on the back of the head a season or two ago, or Mirellas the other day.

[Major Tom]

There's a difference between trying to end someone's career and giving them a smack that will soften them up or keep them out for a while.

Is there? How does that work, then?

[razor]

Do you think Carra went out with the intention of injuring Nani a couple of years back, razor? Or just a mistimed tackle?

 

Gerrard last week? Was he hoping to elbow Barry? Or nothing intentional?

 

1) He intended to hurt him.

 

2) Nothing intentional.

 

Much the same as yourself, no doubt.

[razor]

[Major Tom]

1) He intended to hurt him.

 

2) Nothing intentional.

 

Much the same as yourself, no doubt.

No, regardless of how badly I worded my earlier post, I don't think Carra intended to injure Nani.

 

I seem to have a faith in humanity that very few other people on this forum have! This has now become apparent over a number of topics. I need to wise up to the world and become more cynical.

[Jairzinho]

Have you ever gone into a tackle on someone with the intention to injure them? Did you succeed?

 

No I haven't. I play largely as a number 10 with the work rate of Berbatov, had he been getting stoned all morning. Tackling isn't for me. It's for the shit players that don't have the sublime touch, vision, creativity, and passing range that I possess.

 

*Flicks back hair, before lighting another Davidoff*

[xerxes]

Well, I think if players intentionally went out to injure others, we'd see more injuries and more injuries to key players. We saw from Keane's cowardly assault on Haangeland (sp) that if you want to go out and intentionally injure a specific player, it's easy enough.

Exactly.

 

If the proposiion that PL players go out to injure opponents every week is true, they are not very good at it.

[Major Tom]

No I haven't. I play largely as a number 10 with the work rate of Berbatov, had he been getting stoned all morning. Tackling isn't for me. It's for the shit players that don't have the sublime touch, vision, creativity, and passing range that I possess.

 

*Flicks back hair, before lighting another Davidoff*

I see.

[Major Tom]

Exactly.If the proposiion that PL players go out to injure opponents every week is true, they are not very good at it.

Yeah, and what's the point in risking suspension by taking out the oppo right back when you could take out their star striker and potentially win the match?

[moof]

So when Huth stamped on Suarez' chest last season that wasn't deliberate, am I right?

[Major Tom]

So when Huth stamped on Suarez' chest last season that wasn't deliberate, am I right?

If you're asking me, I have no idea. I just thnk players intentionally injuring others is rare.

[xerxes]

So when Huth stamped on Suarez' chest last season that wasn't deliberate, am I right?

My own view is that you are wrong.

 

Do players sometimes seek to injure others ( as in the above)? Yes. But not every weekend.

 

NV claimed that he saw it "every weekend". If true, there would be multiple sending offs every game, if they try and fail then they are all not very good at it, or perhaps it is not as prevalent as some believe?

[s(k)aturation]

I'd like to deliberately end the career of this debate.