Safe Standing.

[mgw100]

I don't think the re-design and implementation of safe standing would be a huge cost in terms of the club's revenue. Millions perhaps, but unlikely to be tens of millions. I am completely guessing, but it doesn't seem to be that big a job.

[navbasi]

Good summary here and most questions answered...

 

http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safe-standing/safe-standing-mythbuster/

[scudger99]

That's a very good article.  I feel it'll only take one Premiership club to trial rail seats and then the floodgates will open.  If it's taken up by other clubs, then it will happen here as well, but I'd imagine we'd be one of the last to implement it and it could be some way down the road.

Would clubs put rail seating for home fans only, or would there be sections for away fans ?

[navbasi]

Arsène Wenger, outlining his support for the safe standing movement, has expressed his concern that Wednesday night’s crowd trouble at the match between West Ham and Chelsea could set back the debate.

 

“It gives an argument, especially to people who are against it,” said Wenger. “Personally I am in favour of the resurgence of standing opportunities behind the goals and that is not a very good advert to come back to it. Hopefully West Ham will get rid of the problem very quickly.”

 

Wenger is a rarity among Premier League managers in vocalising his support for introducing the kind of rail seating that is commonplace in Germany and has been introduced at Celtic this season without any issues so far.

 

“I feel the closer you are to the positions of the players, the more passionate you are about it. It would allow lower prices because you could get more spectators inside the stadiums, and maybe a more passionate atmosphere,” he added. English legislation currently insists on all seater stadiums but Arsenal are monitoring the situation in case of a change in policy.

[Bjornebye]

It doesn't necessarily allow for more spectators in the stand does it?

[navbasi]

It doesn't necessarily allow for more spectators in the stand does it?

 

I think someone mentioned above the ratio could be 1:1.5 with standing.

[Trumo]

1:1½ is probably too much to be starting with. I think 1:1 should be rolled out to begin with so that it can be managed properly from the off, with a slightly higher ratio (such as 1:1¼) phased in if the initial roll out is proven to be truly safe and progressive. You need to give fans time to get used to the initial change rather than make it drastic.

 

Tickets should be as specific as they are for the current seating, and if higher ratios are introduced, perhaps designated spots marked on the floor with tickets again marked correspondingly is the way to do it.

 

In no way should things return to the mismanaged free-for-all of the bad old days.

 

Then the question is whether existing infrastructure that's been designed to accommodate a certain number of seated spectators would be able to cope with spectators standing, or increased numbers. You have to factor in things like sufficient number of exits, toilets, catering facilities etc.

[Ronnie Whelan]

Alot of people want standing back because they feel that it will mean more tickets for local fans at a cheaper rate. There is also an argument that standing will make football less sanitised.

 

If standing was introduced in grounds, it would be supported by a lot of club owners if they saw the potential to get a few thousand extra punters in. I doubt too many of them would slash prices though so you would effectively be paying probably the same price for standing.

 

Would the game be less sanitised? No chance is my honest opinion. The game has changed so much in the past 20 years, that it is never coming back to the way it was (good and bad to be fair). The local fan from Salford, North London or Birmingham who is working in a factory or a shop etc still won't be able to watch his team on a weekly basis, or even if he does prioritise a season ticket, chances are his gang of mates won't do so. Years ago, you would head to a game with a load of your mates and stand together. That's why there was so much noise. Now, even if you have a few mates at the game, they will be dotted around the ground. Standing won't change that dynamic.

[jimmycase]

Alot of people want standing back because they feel that it will mean more tickets for local fans at a cheaper rate. There is also an argument that standing will make football less sanitised.

 

If standing was introduced in grounds, it would be supported by a lot of club owners if they saw the potential to get a few thousand extra punters in. I doubt too many of them would slash prices though so you would effectively be paying probably the same price for standing.

 

Would the game be less sanitised? No chance is my honest opinion. The game has changed so much in the past 20 years, that it is never coming back to the way it was (good and bad to be fair). The local fan from Salford, North London or Birmingham who is working in a factory or a shop etc still won't be able to watch his team on a weekly basis, or even if he does prioritise a season ticket, chances are his gang of mates won't do so. Years ago, you would head to a game with a load of your mates and stand together. That's why there was so much noise. Now, even if you have a few mates at the game, they will be dotted around the ground. Standing won't change that dynamic.

 

Good post and says it how it will be.

[Bjornebye]

I hate sitting at games. Standing will create a louder and better atmosphere. A far more enjoyable match going experience plus it's easier to go for a piss if your in the middle of the row. Done safely it's a no brainer. Get the kop all standing then the moaning bastards can piss off elsewhere.

[xerxes]

it's easier to go for a piss if your in the middle of the row. Done safely it's a no brainer.

 

How do you piss safely in the middle of a row?

[navbasi]

Brighton & Hove Albion hold safe standing forum

 

http://www.fsf.org.uk/latest-news/view/brighton-and-hove-albion-hold-safe-standing-forum

[Jose Jones]

How do you piss safely in the middle of a row?

Rolled up Echo of course Xerxes.

[VladimirIlyich]

Alot of people want standing back because they feel that it will mean more tickets for local fans at a cheaper rate. There is also an argument that standing will make football less sanitised.

 

If standing was introduced in grounds, it would be supported by a lot of club owners if they saw the potential to get a few thousand extra punters in. I doubt too many of them would slash prices though so you would effectively be paying probably the same price for standing.

 

Would the game be less sanitised? No chance is my honest opinion. The game has changed so much in the past 20 years, that it is never coming back to the way it was (good and bad to be fair). The local fan from Salford, North London or Birmingham who is working in a factory or a shop etc still won't be able to watch his team on a weekly basis, or even if he does prioritise a season ticket, chances are his gang of mates won't do so. Years ago, you would head to a game with a load of your mates and stand together. That's why there was so much noise. Now, even if you have a few mates at the game, they will be dotted around the ground. Standing won't change that dynamic.

It wouldn't slash prices as some people seem to think. They'd continue to milk the cash cow regardless.

[Trumo]

Not about safe standing as such, but a reminder that things cannot progress as long as corners continue to be cut and valid concerns continue to be ignored. There is still this prevalence of thought in this country to only act after the horse has bolted.

 

The following is an account by a West Ham fan who went to the Arsenal game yesterday at the Olympic Stadium. It was posted on Skyscraperity, and there are several similar stories on the Olympic Stadium thread.

 

Firstly, let me just say, I really want this stadium situation to work but it's not. I am a west ham fan and you know what we are used to this kind of display over the years. I need to vent sorry!!!!

 

However here come another BUT

 

After 3- 0 down I decided that I had enough of this melee that is west ham this season and wanted to leave. To my horror all the exits were locked. This was on 80 + minutes. There was one girl on the door and she was powerless to do anything. Everyone was saying open the doors to no avail. What was very worrying is I can see more and more 'customers' coming down the stairs and joining the hoards of patrons wanting to leave and not being able to. At one point I thought I may need to go into the toilets to avoid what I thought was going to be an inevitable crush. The steward at this point look scared to her whits. I tried to use another turnstile and it was also shut with ever more people swelling the crowd. The steward on that turnstile opens what I assume was a disable entrance; that is 1 manual door to let people out. Then instead of the doors being opened. Stewards turned up ready for a fight. Astonishing!!. There were people calling for her and them to radio up to get the doors open and they could not and she could not because she did not seem to have radio contact.

I am assuming that at that point It was noticed on cameras to when battles stated between stewards and absent minded fans all this time the doors are still closed. How can a gate be manned my 1 and I mean 'one individual. There seem to be again no relation as to what goes on in the game to what the crowd are in-acting

What was worrying was misinformation being carried to the control room by the stewards not that there was congestion at the gates but that there was aggressive fans eventually leading to minor skirmishes.

On another note it still takes a while to be served even if you are there on 35 mins of the match because there is an insistence on pouring drinks from plastic bottles into plastic cups.

I had a friend from Seattle who flew in especially and he told me he could not believe that he was standing at a kiosk and the barriers came down without warning, the eventually opened again and no one was using it. while one next door was 20 deep. My efforts to tell everyone they can be served quicker at an empty kiosk was meet with indifference. Typical . There was no contact between the kiosks to say that service can be diverted to relieve the queues.

My friend said They actually let him in the stadium without his card woking because he has Dr. in his name on his membership. Hilarious!!

I need a break from all this. sad to say. Team is not right Manger is not right Management is not right. I want my life back too exasperating.

I desperately do not want that last statement to last. A depressed West Ham Fan here

 

[Babb'sBurstNad]

Last I heard the police radio system was going to see another delay that meant it wouldn't be operational until the new year. It's amazing that they let that stadium be used this season given the amount of London derbies and size of the crowds that'd be there. Complacency has crept in when it comes to crowd safety.

[old skool tom]

Would i trust safe standing at home games?

Yes

 

Would i trust safe standing at a neutral ground?

Probably not

 

Tbh,itll never happen (on large scale anyway ie kop) as clubs wont be able to justify ripping off fans and charging more than £20 to stand up.

 

fans should be concentrating on £20 maximum ticket prices and these money men (FSG) building the new Annie Road at this moment in time.

[Trumo]

Last I heard the police radio system was going to see another delay that meant it wouldn't be operational until the new year. It's amazing that they let that stadium be used this season given the amount of London derbies and size of the crowds that'd be there. Complacency has crept in when it comes to crowd safety.

 

Baffles me how the venue was given a safety certificate when there is so much operational inadequacy.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

Baffles me how the venue was given a safety certificate when there is so much operational inadequacy.

 

It makes you wonder what you'd need to do to not receive one. I mean, with the whole police radio debacle, there was talk that they wouldn't even go into the stadium without it.

[Preston Red]

Baffles me how the venue was given a safety certificate when there is so much operational inadequacy.

Given the fact that WHU only paid £15m for the stadium as a gift from their Tory chums it's hardly surprising that they've been allowed to operate like this. I mean football fans are still scum who deserve to be shoved around like cattle, right?

[navbasi]

Safe standing a step closer after Football League’s green light for rail seats

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/mar/10/safe-standing-football-league-rail-seats?CMP=share_btn_tw

[jimmycase]

21 grounds that are not subject to current all seater requirements so dont see what the step closer is. If they arent subject to the all seater requirement they must be able to have standing in parts of the grounds already. Ergo no progress and rightly so.

[Lee909]

I disagree rightly so

I dont think we ever see it at Anfield but imho safe standing is safer than what we have now with all seater and people standing

[jimmycase]

I disagree rightly so

I dont think we ever see it at Anfield but imho safe standing is safer than what we have now with all seater and people standing

 

That's like saying you left all your doors wide open and got burgled.

[Lee909]

Are you saying it safe as is?

 

All im saying is that with people standing with tbe cramped spaces with seats i think its safer to have the same safe standing they have in Germany