There is nothing wrong with our midfield

[stringvest]

Both play in teams that have more possession, and higher up the pitch.

And they're a big part of the reason why.

[Jose Jones]

Agree on Gerrard. At his age he should be the wisely used icing on the cake not 80% of the cake itself, which he always pretty much has been.

 

People saying you don't need to control the midfield have a point but it is where most of the games in England are won and lost. It's no coincidence arse's premiership winning sides had great midfields, none more so  than their first. First thing mourinho did when he took over Chelsea the first time was pack his midfield full of athletes.

 

If your midfield is poor you can try and hit people on the break or score from set pieces and try and snatch a cup maybe, but you won't dictate shit - and you won't win a league or have any hope of getting near doing so.

 

I would say Chelsea is an opposite.  They won through strong defence, Drogba and pace & goals from out wide in Duff & Robben.  The midfield was geared around Lampard bombing into the box.  They very rarely "controlled the game" through the midfield.

[TheHowieLama]

Both play in teams that have more possession, and higher up the pitch.

 

 

More possession against who? Fulham? We have had more possession against every team bar Arsenal away and Utd when we were hunkered down. Higher up the pitch? I think that is the point.

[Jose Jones]

More possession against who? Fulham? We have had more possession against every team bar Arsenal away and Utd when we were hunkered down. Higher up the pitch? I think that is the point.

 

I would wager Lucas may wander forward more if he was under instructions to do so and if he had cover from a midfield partner when he did so.  He isn't and he doesn't, so he doesn't.

 

The fullbacks go forward and Gerrard has licence to go forward.  So we need someone to sit in as leaving just two centre defenders back would be muy dangeroso.  If you want Lucas to go forward on occasion with Gerrard sitting back, then fair enough.

 

I think Lucas is an underrated passer, he is particularly good at forward passes along the ground into feet and playing through tight spaces, but it would be wasting Gerrard to get him to sit back more.  

Also Lucas wouldn't be as good as say Martinez or Busquets when they make their odd foray forward so best to just have him sitting in at all times.

[The Guest]

We are quite clearly geared to our centre forwards this season.  Both are simply out and out strikers.  You can use them in different positions but you are taking a lot away from them doing that.  Not many sides are doing it either so it's hard to compare.  United are one of the only other top sides doing it and I'm sure their statistics will be similar in the league.

 

For us to be able to play them the way we have been the midfield cannot be as attacking as a side like Arsenal so it's very unfair to compare the scoring statistics of the two sides.

 

That being said the midfield would be the first place I would try to improve the first 11.  Using the amount of goals scored argument as a reason for it though is a bit daft under our current tactics which have us sitting second in the league.

[Dr. J]

 

Both are simply out and out strikers.

 

True, but both - Suarez especially - come quite deep to get the ball. Suarez often seems to play a kind of AM/striker role.

 

In any case, zero goals from open play is poor return from any midfield.

[Gym Beglin]

I saw someone on twitter say something along the lines of "Its the attack and defence that win you games, and its the midfield that wins you big games", and I think there is a lot of truth in that.

 

For next season, when we are in the Champions League and looking to win the title, then our midifled could do with another worldclass player in there.

 

Agree with that completely. However, not only would this current midfield look inferior against European opponents, but also against the better teams in this division. City, United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs will all likely beat us, though perhaps Chelsea's midfield might struggle themselves, they seem to have the same issue in the middle of the park.

 

Jordan Henderson is to this midfield, what Scott Parker was to Spurs, a means to an end. And when the team stepped up a level then he was replaced with a better footballer in Paulinho.

 

It might be the same with Lucas, I don't know if he can hack it at the very top on a weekly basis, we'll see what happens this season. Historically he's played his best games against top opposition, but we'll see.

[Code]

More possession against who? Fulham? We have had more possession against every team bar Arsenal away and Utd when we were hunkered down. Higher up the pitch? I think that is the point.

 

Our posession has dropped dramatically this season.

[Gym Beglin]

People saying you don't need to control the midfield have a point but it is where most of the games in England are won and lost. It's no coincidence arse's premiership winning sides had great midfields, none more so than their first. First thing mourinho did when he took over Chelsea the first time was pack his midfield full of athletes.

 

If your midfield is poor you can try and hit people on the break or score from set pieces and try and snatch a cup maybe, but you won't dictate shit - and you won't win a league or have any hope of getting near doing so.

I think you, for the most part, only need a functional midfield to win the league, but that also means scoring goals.

 

Harking back to that Chelsea team of 04/05, it was when they brought in Robben and Drogba that they won the league and only conceded 15 goals all season. They did that with a midfield of Lampard, Tiago and Makelele as the starting 3 (433) and then other game time was shared between Smertin (25 appearances), Scott Parker (11 appearances) and Jarosik (20 appearances), hardly world beaters.

 

The next season they brought in Essien, and he played with Makelele and Lampard, and they got rid of Parker, Smertin, Jarosik and Tiago that Summer. Again, they pissed the league with 91 points.

 

The following season they brought in Ballack and Obi Mikel and they lost the league. They didn't win the league again until 2009/10. There were no more key midfield signings in those three years.

 

But there had to be a goalscorer in that midfield 3, and over the years that person has been Lampard. I think Lampard is a better midfielder than Gerrard, he times his runs perfectly but then again he has played there for years whereas Gerrard has played in different positions under different styles which has disrupted him in this position.

 

Lampards goals, in the PL, from central midfield:

 

04/05 - 13

05/06 - 16

06/07 - 11

07/08 - 10

08/09 - 12

09/10 - 22

10/11 - 10

11/12 - 11

12/13 - 15

 

Sure, a fair few were pens, he averages about 9 - 10 goals a year without pens. That's what gets you over the line. He's consistent as fuck whereas Gerrard has been explosive but with bigger peaks also comes bigger troughs.

 

One of your midfield 3 MUST have goals in him, and we're talking a goal every third game in effect. Do we have that? Not any more.

 

It's all well and good having an Essien or Makelele or Tiago in your midfield, but they won't win you games.

 

 

 

I've got ideas, mostly shit, about who can come in and I've done it in other threads. But off the top of my head now, I'd love to see Michu brought in and played as a central midfielder, I like to see if that would work. Because we aint going to afford Vidal or Schweinsteiger, we're going to have to think a bit laterally about it. Like Bayern did with Schweinsteiger! Used to be a winger...

[El Rojo]

Bringing in another top quality midfielder would give the option of moving Gerrard further forward for some games. Would love to see him dovetailing with Suarez the way he did with Torres back in the day.

[TheHowieLama]

Our posession has dropped dramatically this season.

 

Thats because the other team is kicking off an inordinate amount of times.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Our posession has dropped dramatically this season.

You don't care about possession, so don't moan.

[stringvest]

possession is zero tenths of the score.

[Code]

You don't care about possession, so don't moan.

 

I did not moan, I just thought it was a strange comment above based on the earlier mentioned fact.

[Guest LFD]

Lampards goals, in the PL, from central midfield:

 

04/05 - 13

05/06 - 16

06/07 - 11

07/08 - 10

08/09 - 12

09/10 - 22

10/11 - 10

11/12 - 11

12/13 - 15

 

We might not have a player that can that many, but Coutinho and Gerrard could get that amount between them. 

[TheHowieLama]

We might not have a player that can that many, but Coutinho and Gerrard could get that amount between them. 

 

Well they better pick it up.

[The Woolster]

Someone not so eternally positive as myself might point out that is a far different kettle of fish.

 

We need to up our performance against top sides by a third.

 

If someone not as eternally positive as you pointed that out, I'd say we've won 3 points from 2 of those games already so only need 11 from 9. In the same games last season, with a worse attack and defence, we managed to get 9 points. Not such a big increase.

[Gym Beglin]

We might not have a player that can that many, but Coutinho and Gerrard could get that amount between them.

No, no, no, no, NO.

 

Gerrard is 34 by the time the next season kicks off. About time that people awoke from this pleasant little Fulham dream we all experienced. It was magical, but that's half the problem, he's not consistently doing the business in the middle of the park. He'll also be starting next season having just gone to Brazil for a fucking World Cup tournament, in blistering heat, in an England team where he is captain and they can't hold on to the ball so he'll basically be doing shuttles up and down the pitch for 90 minutes each game trying to get it back.

 

I'll be fucking amazed if he comes back and he's not injured, let alone be knackered.

 

There's no way we can afford to sit back and not buy a midfielder this Summer, and if we've any sense we might get on with it this Winter and let the guy have 6 months to get up to speed before the new season.

 

 

Who is the new Lampard though? Gerrard for me is the best player the PL has seen, but Lampard is a better central midfielder than him. Just to qualify my question.

 

 

We're talking six foot, fit as a butchers dog, scores from range, can pick a pass, and gets around the pitch for 90 minutes.

 

I think Aaron Ramsey is doing a passable impression of that type of player.

 

Thing is, even if we get CL football, it more than likely won't be enough to land the best established central midfielders in the World. We're going to have to take a leap of faith. I mean, even the level underneath Vidal, Schweinsteiger, Toure still includes a ton of players we wouldn't get near, like Pogba, Veratti, Thiago...

 

- I do wonder if Moussa Sissoko has a bit more in his locker than he is showing at Newcastle. Those first few games in this division were inspired.

 

- Lars Bender

 

- There's a bloke at Spartak Moscow called Romulo, he's started his career brightly and he's a physical presence and also gets goals. Looks like nails as well.

 

 

I think the trick is, with Lampard, that he was an attacking midfielder but had the physique of a central midfielder. If you can find a freak like that then buy him.

 

Even looking for a Bayern cast-off, it's interesting to note that Guardiola has given 9 starts in TOTAL to Javi Martinez, Thiago and Mario Gotze, but has given 17 starts to Toni Kroos.

 

Pisses me off to learn that Monaco hovered up Kondogbia from Sevilla in the Summer for over £20m...fucking hate that lot, tax-dodging twats. As well as James Rodriguez, Ocampos, Moutinho, Falcao. Useless ballbags.

[Guest LFD]

No, no, no, no, NO.

Gerrard got 8 goals last season, Coutinho got about 3 (and only played 13 games). Between them they could feasibly get 10 - 15 goals this season. That's my point.

 

I think everyone agrees Gerrard can't go on forever and we need to strengthen our midfield in the summer.

 

But as long as our team get enough goals, that's all that matters, no matter where they come from.

[Batigol]

Hopefully replace every other midfielder first.  It'll be a sad day when Allen and Lucas start as the pairing in anything other than league cup tie.

[JaminKibbler]

I think Allen, when given the opportunity will show that he's a pretty good back-up to Lucas and can pressure him for a starting place, something we need.

 

I'm most excited by the return of Suso, he's been pretty good so far in Spain, lets hope he can repeat that and parts of the trickery and skill he provided in glimpses for us last season. 

 

Of course, a world class player coming in would help, and that would be hugely beneficial, until Suso is entirely ready to adapt his all round game someone like Xabi would help us unbelievable amounts, allowing Gerrard the rest he needs coming into his later career when (hopefully) we'll have more games to play in next year such as CL.

[The Guest]

Lampard has never been a better centre mid than Gerrard.  I find it fucking hilarious/fucking annoying when people come out with this fucking utter rubbish.

 

Lampard was great for a number of seasons playing off the striker in a similar role to how Gerrard played with Torres for a season or so.  That season where Gerrard did very well is now some massive stick to beat him with despite the fact he has played the majority of his career exceptionally well at centre mid.

 

How the fuck somebody can put Lampard as a better centre mid is beyond me.  When has Frank Lampard ever showed he is capable of being a box to box centre midfielder even half as good as what Gerrard was.  What fucking game have you been watching for the past 10 years?  When has that cunt have put a game saving tackle in at one end sprayed passes round the pitch as good as Alonso and won the game at the other end of the pitch?  Never is the answer because he isn't as good a centre mid as Gerrard.  The man is famous for scoring goals and being creative on the edge of the box not for being a great centre mid.

[Gnasher]

Did the mancs only play 40 games a season and a game not even once a week during the season?

No, and i take your point but even when they were out of the champs league fergurson often changed his midfield. Why? Keep the older players legs fresh, make sure other players are getting big game time, try out different combinations and keep the opposition guessing would be my guess. Unless he was just so pissedup he did as mickey phelan said and just flicked a fucking coin.

 

I would have thought the proof that all players ( especially older ones) need resting is proved by the fact we've got Roy fucking Hodgson personally putting pain killing injections up our captains arse. And Its going on as we speak.

[Dr. J]

 

He'll also be starting next season having just gone to Brazil for a fucking World Cup tournament, in blistering heat

 

It will be winter here, so the heat will be less of an issue, at least.

[Jose Jones]

Lampard has never been a better centre mid than Gerrard.  I find it fucking hilarious/fucking annoying when people come out with this fucking utter rubbish.

 

Lampard was great for a number of seasons playing off the striker in a similar role to how Gerrard played with Torres for a season or so.  That season where Gerrard did very well is now some massive stick to beat him with despite the fact he has played the majority of his career exceptionally well at centre mid.

 

How the fuck somebody can put Lampard as a better centre mid is beyond me.  When has Frank Lampard ever showed he is capable of being a box to box centre midfielder even half as good as what Gerrard was.  What fucking game have you been watching for the past 10 years?  When has that cunt have put a game saving tackle in at one end sprayed passes round the pitch as good as Alonso and won the game at the other end of the pitch?  Never is the answer because he isn't as good a centre mid as Gerrard.  The man is famous for scoring goals and being creative on the edge of the box not for being a great centre mid.

 

I can only assume Funnneeeee is Lampard's mum.

 

WHAT'S IT LIKE ON THE OTHER SIDE OLD GIRL?