There is nothing wrong with our midfield

[Code]

If we class Moses as a midfielder our midfield have 3 goals in 11 games, 2 of these goals being penalties.

 

If there is nothing wrong with our midfield there must be something seriously wrong with our set up and tactics,

[Guest LFD]

If we class Moses as a midfielder our midfield have 3 goals in 11 games, 2 of these goals being penalties.

 

If there is nothing wrong with our midfield there must be something seriously wrong with our set up and tactics,

 

Coutinho has been injured, which is a large reason why we've had less midfield goals. 

 

Also does it matter as long as the team get enough goals?  United get most of their goals from Van Persie and Rooney last season to win the league.

 

Since January we've scored more goals than any side in the league, so I find it odd for you to suggest a lack of goals are a problem.

 

Would it be better if we spread the goals around? Ideally yes.  But Real have Ronaldo get a massive bulk of their goals, Barca do with Messi.  As long as you get enough goals, that's all that matters.

[The Golden Eel]

That's one thing that always baffled me about Lucas, how bad he looks going forward. Didn't he have a fairly significant attacking game when we signed him? How could he have lost it so badly? I remember seeing clips of him going past players, looking like he had something in that sense. Now, nor a sniff, ever.

 

It's not really a criticism but it does seem strange

[stringvest]

Rafa used a cattle prod on him every time he went over the halfway line.  I actually like watching him come forward, you know, like other DMs often do.

[The Golden Eel]

If we class Moses as a midfielder our midfield have 3 goals in 11 games, 2 of these goals being penalties.

 

If there is nothing wrong with our midfield there must be something seriously wrong with our set up and tactics,

This is partly because the strikers score so many. We do score goals. Maybe we're too reliant on the forwards though, Coutinho could help but we need more from Henderson when he's in the side as he has goals in his locker, he just usually misses

[stringvest]

The time to moan about the midfielders not getting enough goals is when the attackers are not scoring.  It seems a little churlish to do so right now.

[The Golden Eel]

Rafa used a cattle prod on him every time he went over the halfway line. I actually like watching him come forward, you know, like other DMs often do.

I like the idea of it but in and around the box he's not a pretty sight

[Gnasher]

If we kept Suarez because we didn't want to sell to a rival, here's the two sides midfield players.

 

Liverpool ..

 

Gerrard

Henderson

Lucas

Allen

Moses

 

Total goals.. 3

 

Arsenal......

 

Ramsey

Ozil

Wiltshire

Arteta

Flamini

Garzola

 

Total goals... 18

 

Arsenal still have Walcott and Oxlaid Chaimbelin to come back from injury.

 

Our midfield needs strengthening, no question at all.

[Section_31]

Do you include Gerrard in that or is he exempt?

 

Rightly or wrongly, I don't see Gerrard as a long term player anymore. He's gradually going to become someone who can just do a job for us in bursts.

[The Golden Eel]

Rightly or wrongly, I don't see Gerrard as a long term player anymore. He's gradually going to become someone who can just do a job for us in bursts.

Definitely. We need to realise this. The midfielder we sign should be someone who takes over from him and ideally can play with him too. Is there such a player that springs to mind? He's still in the team on merit but we need to start looking at the long term, and it's an obvious difficulty, let's be honest

[TheHowieLama]

My problem with the midfield is really not down to goals tbh.

[Pureblood]

Rightly or wrongly, I don't see Gerrard as a long term player anymore. He's gradually going to become someone who can just do a job for us in bursts.

 

Interesting stuff, mate.  I reckon he still has two or three seasons in him if managed properly and with some luck riding the injuries. 

[TheHowieLama]

Interesting stuff, mate.  I reckon he still has two or three seasons in him if managed properly and with some luck riding the injuries. 

 

He should be playing 30% less than he is in honesty. 

[Pureblood]

Have we as Liverpool fans become fixated on the idea of "controlling the midfield", for years under Rafa I watched us control teams and look very difficult to beat, but we always struggled to put sides away. There's a balancing act here, I'm not suggesting Gerrard and Lucas are perfect, but individually they are both fantastic players, Gerrard on his day is still easily one of the world's best, his mind just is that split second ahead of the masses, he sees things that others don't and 9/10 his execution is exquisite. We appear to be quite open in the middle, opposition teams are getting too much shots off and seeing a fair share of the ball, but is this tactical by Rodgers opening the game up to expose the opposition. Could the 5 at the back be related to our relative weakness in midfield, the extra man further up the pitch may alway us to move the ball around with more fluency and direction. I've seen Gerrard and Lucas dominate Villa's for the first 45 minutes at Villa Park in a Barcelonaesque manner, so I believe they are capable of doing it. 

    Joe allen remains a mystery to me, I see something in him but I am not sure where he fits in to system and I think Rodgers is having the same reservations. I think another body is needed in midfield, Cabaye is a very good shout however I would love to test Barca's resolve with a bid for Mascherano and restore him back to his rightful position in the middle of the park but of course the chances of that are virtually nil.

 

Some good points made there. 

[Code]

He should be playing 30% less than he is in honesty. 

 

There is no need to rest Gerrard.

 

How many league games would you have him play if we were in the CL? 15?

[Gnasher]

There is no need to rest Gerrard.

 

How many league games would you have him play if we were in the CL? 15?

When Scholes and Giggs hit thirty years of age they were constantly rested by ferguson

[Gnasher]

There is no need to rest Gerrard.

 

How many league games would you have him play if we were in the CL? 15?

When Scholes and Giggs hit thirty years of age they were constantly rested by ferguson

My problem with the midfield is really not down to goals tbh.

If your midfield players fail to chip in with goals you've got a little better than zero chance of ever winning the league.

[Guest LFD]

Have we as Liverpool fans become fixated on the idea of "controlling the midfield", for years under Rafa I watched us control teams and look very difficult to beat, but we always struggled to put sides away. There's a balancing act here, I'm not suggesting Gerrard and Lucas are perfect, but individually they are both fantastic players, Gerrard on his day is still easily one of the world's best, his mind just is that split second ahead of the masses, he sees things that others don't and 9/10 his execution is exquisite. We appear to be quite open in the middle, opposition teams are getting too much shots off and seeing a fair share of the ball, but is this tactical by Rodgers opening the game up to expose the opposition. Could the 5 at the back be related to our relative weakness in midfield, the extra man further up the pitch may alway us to move the ball around with more fluency and direction. I've seen Gerrard and Lucas dominate Villa's for the first 45 minutes at Villa Park in a Barcelonaesque manner, so I believe they are capable of doing it. 

    Joe allen remains a mystery to me, I see something in him but I am not sure where he fits in to system and I think Rodgers is having the same reservations. I think another body is needed in midfield, Cabaye is a very good shout however I would love to test Barca's resolve with a bid for Mascherano and restore him back to his rightful position in the middle of the park but of course the chances of that are virtually nil.

 

Good post.

[Jose Jones]

If we kept Suarez because we didn't want to sell to a rival, here's the two sides midfield players.

 

Liverpool ..

 

Gerrard

Henderson

Lucas

Allen

Moses

 

Total goals.. 3

 

Arsenal......

 

Ramsey

Ozil

Wiltshire

Arteta

Flamini

Garzola

 

Total goals... 18

 

Arsenal still have Walcott and Oxlaid Chaimbelin to come back from injury.

 

Our midfield needs strengthening, no question at all.

 

How many goals have Arsenal's strikers scored?

[Gnasher]

How many goals have Arsenal's strikers scored?

Not sure but i think giroud has scored five. Arsenals strikers are shit, that's why they tried to sign suarez. Strengthen the weak points in the team. If they'd have got him the league would've been theirs.

[Guest LFD]

If we kept Suarez because we didn't want to sell to a rival, here's the two sides midfield players.

 

Liverpool ..

 

Gerrard

Henderson

Lucas

Allen

Moses

 

Total goals.. 3

 

Arsenal......

 

Ramsey

Ozil

Wiltshire

Arteta

Flamini

Garzola

 

Total goals... 18

 

Arsenal still have Walcott and Oxlaid Chaimbelin to come back from injury.

 

Our midfield needs strengthening, no question at all.

 

If you are including Ozil, then you include Coutinho for us (I know he hasn't scored but he is as option to return, like Ox and Walcott).

 

Arsenal probably have the best centre midfield and attacking midfielder options in the league.  Let's compare their strikers to ours.  Actually let's compare their keeper and defense as well, I wouldn't swap our squad for theirs.

 

For years we used to say our centre midfield was just as good if not better than Uniteds.  Yet they won the league as they scored more goals.  Now we might not have the best centre midfield in the league, but our back five and match winners can match any side.  That doesn't mean our centre midfield is weaker either, it is just not outstanding like Alonso, Mascherano and Gerrard were.

[Jose Jones]

Not sure but i think giroud has scored five. Arsenals strikers are shit, that's why they tried to sign suarez. Strengthen the weak points in the team. If they'd have got him the league would've been theirs.

 

Well I agree a bit on that, but it's also to do with the set up.  Arsenal's tactics are to create chances for midfielders.   Their striker is there as a focal point and they burst players forward from midfield with quick passing. 

Our set up is designed to create chances for our strikers, hence the midfield will always score less.

 

Anyway, I don’t think there’s too much wrong with our midfield, when all our best players are fit.  Our set up relies an awful lot on the full backs to provide width and an outlet for ball retention so when we had Flanno and Cissokho there against Arsenal we struggled.  We also didn’t have Coutinho who offers a lot of creativity and ball playing.

 

We could obviously try to improve the personnel by getting in a young Yaya Toure or Graeme Souness type to challenge for the Lucas position and long term take over from Gerrard.  It’s fairly clear that Brendan also looked at getting Mkhitaryan in to play the position Henderson mainly occupies.   As posted in another thread, we need a few more goals from Hendo for him to be properly effective in that position.  Likewise Coutinho needs to chip in.Anyway, I don’t think there’s too much wrong with our midfield, when all our best players are fit.  Our set up relies an awful lot on the full backs to provide width and an outlet for ball retention so when we had Flanno and Cissokho there against Arsenal we struggled.  We also didn’t have Coutinho who offers a lot of creativity and ball playing.

 

We could obviously try to improve the personnel by getting in a young Yaya Toure or Graeme Souness type to challenge for the Lucas position and long term take over from Gerrard.  It’s fairly clear that Brendan also looked at getting Mkhitaryan in to play the position Henderson mainly occupies.   As posted in another thread, we need a few more goals from Hendo for him to be properly effective in that position.  Likewise Coutinho needs to chip in.

[Code]

When Scholes and Giggs hit thirty years of age they were constantly rested by ferguson

 

Did the mancs only play 40 games a season and a game not even once a week during the season?

[Section_31]

Agree on Gerrard. At his age he should be the wisely used icing on the cake not 80% of the cake itself, which he always pretty much has been.

 

People saying you don't need to control the midfield have a point but it is where most of the games in England are won and lost. It's no coincidence arse's premiership winning sides had great midfields, none more so  than their first. First thing mourinho did when he took over Chelsea the first time was pack his midfield full of athletes.

 

If your midfield is poor you can try and hit people on the break or score from set pieces and try and snatch a cup maybe, but you won't dictate shit - and you won't win a league or have any hope of getting near doing so.

[Jairzinho]

Ramires is ace at it. Arteta is pretty good too.

 

Both play in teams that have more possession, and higher up the pitch.