Lucas

[Jairzinho]

I think Aspas is a squad player. I think that's the quality of Lucas. Rotation for cup games, and cover for injury. So squad and back-up. Yeah. That's pretty much the level I think he is.

 

Yeah. Thankfully, in my opinion, Rodgers doesn't.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

So I post a video of his abilities

 

You posted a short montage of his best bits. Has anybody ever said he does nothing good ever?

 

some stats to go along with it, a link further up that shows what he done last year and instead of talking about his stats you decide to take things out of context just to try and water down what Lucas is doing for the team?

 

Come on man....

 

You posted a link to who scored. I asked you a question about the players to put it into context. Of course, it's a pretty meaningless list. I think he's a decent player. He does well at some things - putting in tackles - and poorly at other things, like tacking players and players waltzing past him. Would you say he wins us a lot of points? I'd say he's a decent team member, but one of the first spots in the 'best 11' that we can upgrade.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Yeah. Thankfully, in my opinion, Rodgers doesn't.

 

Rodgers was extolling the virtues of Downing a little while ago. Then fucking him off. I wouldn't expect Lucas to last too much longer as the number one if he continues losing his man.

[WhiskeyJar]

You posted a short montage of his best bits. Has anybody ever said he does nothing good ever?

 

 

 

You posted a link to who scored. I asked you a question about the players to put it into context. Of course, it's a pretty meaningless list. I think he's a decent player. He does well at some things - putting in tackles - and poorly at other things, like tacking players and players waltzing past him. Would you say he wins us a lot of points? I'd say he's a decent team member, but one of the first spots in the 'best 11' that we can upgrade.

 

I do not think that you will not find anyone better that has his high passing rate or tackling rate.

 

I can post more stats but I fear they will be lost on you....what the hell, I will give it one more try:

 

 

Like I said, too good to be a back up.

[rubble-rouser]

That Nigel Spackman was fucking shit - we should've improved on him. And Kevin McDonald?! You're never going to win anything with players like ....

 

Oh.

 

When Lucas was at his peak under Kenny he was given more freedom to get forward and didn't sit as deep. The 0-0 v City at Anfield he was all over the park, chasing players down and playing in a more rounded CM role. I've long thought that he is not and never will be an out and out top-quality DM. As others have noted, he lacks the pace and defensive qualities of Mascherano and the technical and tactical acumen of Didi.

 

I thought hsi performance against Villa wa svery interesting - in the first half absolutely everythig we did went through him. Villa gave him space and - without doing anything spectacular - he dictated the play in an Alonso style (not of the smae quality, but the same role - deep-lying midfielder staring moves off rather than breaking them up).

 

In the second half when we sat off he struggled as I'm convinced that is not his role.

 

Against the Mancs he did the nasty stuff brilliantly well - snapping away at their attackers and midfielders and hardly ever giving the ball away.

 

I'd like to think against 'weaker' sides at home we can give our entire midfield the chance to get forward more, but having Lucas there should enable Gerrard to push on when teams come to Anfield to park the bus. In those games he should be there to take the ball off the keeper/centre backs and spread it. Allen could maybe do that role at home.

 

A good player who gives us something we otherwise lack at present. The idea that we need to upgrade is naive - water carriers have often had their place in winning teams - even Brazilian ones.

[rubble-rouser]

As for Code's argument about us reacching two finals without him - look at our league form at the same time! He'd played in most of our League Cup run before being injured at Chelsea.

 

Without a solid cenrtral midfielder we lost at home to Wigan and West Brom and threw away a 2-0 lead against QPR.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I do not think that you will not find anyone better that has his high passing rate or tackling rate.

 

I can post more stats but I fear they will be lost on you....what the hell, I will give it one more try:

 

 

Like I said, too good to be a back up.

 

No, sorry, they're lost on me. I can't understand such basic tables of contextless data. I'm just too stupid. Proof of this can be found in the fact I don't agree with you.

 

Shockingly, the stats back up what I said. That he tackles well, but is waltzed past way, way, way too easily. It's good putting a tackle in, but it's not the only marker of a good player. Actually, Lucas put in around double the tackles of Javi Martinez of Bayern last season. Is Lucas a better DM than Javi Martinez? Mark Noble and Yacob from WBA put many more tackles in per game than Javi Martinez. Are they better? Are Steve Sidwell and Mikele Leigertwood?

[Jairzinho]

Good post, rr.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

To want to upgrade is naive. I guess that's one argument.

[The Guest]

If you were to look at the quality of the players we have in a 4-3-3 line up he is definitely the easiest to replace alongside Henderson.

 

Whether we could get an improvement on him, though, is questionable. That's because players that play this role are failed midfielders. They can't do anything else so they look to specialise in the easiest role on the pitch. It's become the fashion to rave on about them so you look clever to everyone else.

 

Just look at that table above. Look at the fucking names on that list. That player at the bottom with the star next to his name, his name sums up the whole list. Never have I seen a more mediocre bunch of players. Putting this up and expecting everyone to fall at the feet of Lucas because of it is fucking hysterical. There are two players on that list I would have a Liverpool and neither of them are defensive midfielders but aren't pretty much cop at what they do either. At least they have actually made it in the game for what they came into as though.

 

Gerrard has gone back there for 3 games and absolutely embarrassed Lucas in my opinion. This argument that he's too good to be back up is hilarious as well. Who the fuck is too good to be back up unless they are the best player in the world? Liverpool doesn't exist to look after Lucas best interests you fucking cranks. If we have got a better player than him and Lucas is still contracted to the club then he goes on the fucking bench as back up.

[Pureblood]

I see that young player Joe Allen with huge potential is 24 years old in March.

[Pureblood]

If you were to look at the quality of the players we have in a 4-3-3 line up he is definitely the easiest to replace alongside Henderson.

 

Whether we could get an improvement on him, though, is questionable. That's because players that play this role are failed midfielders. They can't do anything else so they look to specialise in the easiest role on the pitch. It's become the fashion to rave on about them so you look clever to everyone else.

 

Just look at that table above. Look at the fucking names on that list. That player at the bottom with the star next to his name, his name sums up the whole list. Never have I seen a more mediocre bunch of players. Putting this up and expecting everyone to fall at the feet of Lucas because of it is fucking hysterical. There are two players on that list I would have a Liverpool and neither of them are defensive midfielders but aren't pretty much cop at what they do either. At least they have actually made it in the game for what they came into as though.

 

Gerrard has gone back there for 3 games and absolutely embarrassed Lucas in my opinion. This argument that he's too good to be back up is hilarious as well. Who the fuck is too good to be back up unless they are the best player in the world? Liverpool doesn't exist to look after Lucas best interests you fucking cranks. If we have got a better player than him and Lucas is still contracted to the club then he goes on the fucking bench as back up.

 

This is the worst post ever.

[Delmar]

To want to upgrade is naive. I guess that's one argument.

 

Your argument is really with Rodgers, and the way he wants the team to play. There is a strong possibility that Lucas does exactly what Rodgers wants him to do. He could possibly please your way of thinking by playing differently, but I guess he thinks that what Rodgers says means more.

 

Anyway, we have always had players like Lucas, just doing their job, and been very happy with them. Then there's another point that could well be a positive for Lucas. Team chemistry. Maybe something to think about, especially given the way Rodgers talks about "the group".

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Your argument is really with Rodgers, and the way he wants the team to play. There is a strong possibility that Lucas does exactly what Rodgers wants him to do. He could possibly please your way of thinking by playing differently, but I guess he thinks that what Rodgers says means more.

 

Anyway, we have always had players like Lucas, just doing their job, and been very happy with them. Then there's another point that could well be a positive for Lucas. Team chemistry. Maybe something to think about, especially given the way Rodgers talks about "the group".

 

For me, Lucas is good when everything is compact, like against the Mancs. He can get his foot in and tackle. Lovely. However, he has looked sorely out of place with a more expansive game. If we're pushing up and he has to cover a lot of ground - surely this is what Rodgers is going towards? - then he does seem to get caught.

 

Maybe with more pace in defence, with Sakho having the ability to cover some of that ground behind Lucas and the the left and right of him, it might not be such an issue?

[Delmar]

For me, Lucas is good when everything is compact, like against the Mancs. He can get his foot in and tackle. Lovely. However, he has looked sorely out of place with a more expansive game. If we're pushing up and he has to cover a lot of ground - surely this is what Rodgers is going towards? - then he does seem to get caught.

 

Maybe with more pace in defence, with Sakho having the ability to cover some of that ground behind Lucas and the the left and right of him, it might not be such an issue?

 

Yes, I'd agree, if we play like last year with CBs deep, Lucas is not the midfielder for that system. This year we have played compact in two different ways, attacking first 45 minutes with high line, still compact, and parking the bus for the second 45 minutes, remaining compact. Very pragmatic, Mourinho like stuff, with a bit more flair.

 

And yes, we have needed fast CBs for a long time, but there's not a single DM, that I know of, that can sort out a slow defense. Lucas most definitely cannot, there I agree with you.

[The Guest]

This is the worst post ever.

 

You take it too personal mate. Some of us just don't think he's good enough. You are getting that angry you are now sarcastically slagging off Joe Allen who nobody has even brought up to try and back "your man."

 

When we see him giving the ball away in a dangerous area, getting walked past or giving a stupid foul away round the box, you've got the blinkers on. You don't want to see it so you never will.

 

He's been hit and miss this season so far. When he has good games I will call it. When he has bad games I will call it. You can't. It's what makes your opinion on the subject worthless. For whatever reason he cannot do a single bad thing in your eyes. I bet you haven't criticised one thing he has done in his whole time here. He could have the worst performance of any Liverpool player ever and you would just ignore it. It makes it impossible to ahve any sort of reasoned discussion with you on the subject.

 

The really odd thing is, it isn't just you. There's loads of fucking loons like you.

 

(Ignore the context of this post though, on how you cant' criticise anything he does making your arguments invalid, and just go at the "loons" bit and how there being loads of you means you're all right. It will bring me a chuckle)

[Pureblood]

You take it too personal mate. Some of us just don't think he's good enough. You are getting that angry you are now sarcastically slagging off Joe Allen who nobody has even brought up to try and back "your man."

 

When we see him giving the ball away in a dangerous area, getting walked past or giving a stupid foul away round the box, you've got the blinkers on. You don't want to see it so you never will.

 

He's been hit and miss this season so far. When he has good games I will call it. When he has bad games I will call it. You can't. It's what makes your opinion on the subject worthless. For whatever reason he cannot do a single bad thing in your eyes. I bet you haven't criticised one thing he has done in his whole time here. He could have the worst performance of any Liverpool player ever and you would just ignore it. It makes it impossible to ahve any sort of reasoned discussion with you on the subject.

 

The really odd thing is, it isn't just you. There's loads of fucking loons like you.

 

(Ignore the context of this post though, on how you cant' criticise anything he does making your arguments invalid, and just go at the "loons" bit and how there being loads of you means you're all right. It will bring me a chuckle)

 

I like Joe Allen but he's not a young player anymore. He needs to sort his fitness out and establish himself otherwise his Liverpool career will pass him by.

 

As for Lucas? I guess a succession of managers for club and country are wrong and TLW forumite The Guest is correct in everything he says. Yeah, that seems highly likely...

[The Guest]

I like Joe Allen but he's not a young player anymore. He needs to sort his fitness out and establish himself otherwise his Liverpool career will pass him by.

 

As for Lucas? I guess a succession of managers for club and country are wrong and TLW forumite The Guest is correct in everything he says. Yeah, that seems highly likely...

 

It's just an opinion. A bit like yours except mines more rounded because I canm see the good things he does as well as the bad. I like the way you don't even argue that you won't accept any mistake he makes.

 

As I say all opinion. Here's a few facts though.

 

1. Since he's been getting picked the club has won the league cup, once. Even then, he was injured when that happened. We've also been terrible in the league.

 

2. All those successive managers who have selected him have been sacked for not being good enough.

 

3. He hasn't been picked for a while now at international level. People love bringing up getting picked by Dunga. They don't tend to tell you about him getting fucked off by Dunga once he'd watched him a couple of times though.

[Whelan]

There is a fair argument that you could 'upgrade' on most of our first 11! We finished outside the top six for 4 seasons for a reason, so yes Lucas can be 'upgraded'.

 

But - he is still a very good player, and one of the best defensive/deep midfielders in the league. And more than good enough to play in a team winning the league, that argument is absolute nonsense.

 

The simple fact is that we are a much better team with Lucas in it. He is better than Barry, De Jong, Tracy Chapman, Cleverly, and quite a few others who have won the league.

[Whelan]

There is a fair argument that you could 'upgrade' on most of our first 11! We finished outside the top six for 4 seasons for a reason, so yes Lucas can be 'upgraded'.

 

But - he is still a very good player, and one of the best defensive/deep midfielders in the league. And more than good enough to play in a team winning the league, that argument is absolute nonsense.

 

The simple fact is that we are a much better team with Lucas in it. He is better than Barry, De Jong, Tracy Chapman, Cleverly, and quite a few others who have won the league.

[Spy Bee]

*looks what he started

 

**Walks away

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Yes, I'd agree, if we play like last year with CBs deep, Lucas is not the midfielder for that system. This year we have played compact in two different ways, attacking first 45 minutes with high line, still compact, and parking the bus for the second 45 minutes, remaining compact. Very pragmatic, Mourinho like stuff, with a bit more flair.

 

And yes, we have needed fast CBs for a long time, but there's not a single DM, that I know of, that can sort out a slow defense. Lucas most definitely cannot, there I agree with you.

 

Yeah, with you there. The space he needs to cover is big. However, even if we close that gap, we'll still need somebody with the mobility to cover ground when we get Coutinho inside - him joining the attack means gaps.

 

I guess we'll see, but for me his is the second position I'd address next window. Two big signings required, in my opinion. First, a left sided inside forward. Second is DM.

[Razoray]

Yeah, with you there. The space he needs to cover is big. However, even if we close that gap, we'll still need somebody with the mobility to cover ground when we get Coutinho inside - him joining the attack means gaps.

 

I guess we'll see, but for me his is the second position I'd address next window. Two big signings required, in my opinion. First, a left sided inside forward. Second is DM.

 

Isn't that exactly what Suarez is?

[moof]

Before we signed Lucas we won the league 18 times and the European cup 5 times. He's clearly the main problem and needs to be dealt with.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Isn't that exactly what Suarez is?

 

I assume he'll play right with Moses left. If not, we'll want somebody on the right or who can play either side. Going off Diego Costa and Willian, he looked like he wanted somebody coming in from the left.