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Champions League return a must (ESPN article)


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Why did Valencia appoint a novice in 2001? Why did Dortmund appoint a novice in 2008?

 

I don't know. Maybe they had people on the board who knew a lot about football and spotted potential.

 

Do you disagree that looking at a manager's track record is the best way to see what they might achieve in the future?

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I don't know. Maybe they had people on the board who knew a lot about football and spotted potential.

 

Do you disagree that looking at a manager's track record is the best way to see what they might achieve in the future?

 

No, I don't disagree with you. I think only a retard would.

 

But I also think you have to weigh things up.

 

Even though we're a bigger club than Valencia or Dortmund, we're not in too dissimilar a position than they were when they appointed their 'novices'. That's the reality of things. When coming back from the cup final against Chelsea, even though I said I was in favour of giving Kenny another year, I said I'd rather we go down the young manager route if we were to change gaffers because I was of the opinion the club needed a root and branch job; someone who'd be into the long haul to see it through.

 

Admittedly, Rodgers wasn't my first choice, but, to be honest, I like the fella. I think small improvements have been made (position, points, goal difference, goals scored), even if it hasn't exactly been spectacular, but, in my opinion, enough has been done to warrant another season.

 

And, to be honest, although Van Gaal is a great manager, I'm not sure he would have been the best of fits. Stability was a priority for me, and I'm not sure he would have offered it when he has a history of kicking off and unsettling things. After three managers in less than three years, the last we needed was having that uncertainty. As WaltonRed says, you're dreaming if you think he'd have gotten us CL with the exact same tools Rodgers had to work with. And as the bloke's in his 60s, who's to say he wouldn't have spewed it after a year or two anyway?

 

I admit it's not ideal that we're taking punts on managers, but isn't that what Valencia did when they appointed Benitez or Dortmund when they appointed Klopp? Ultimately, they took gambles and they paid off. Is there no reason why the same couldn't happen of Rodgers?

 

It's all well and good going on about CVs and yeah, I agree they're a good barometer, but at the end of the day, you never know. At the same age as Rodgers, Rafa's CV was pretty much identical to Rodgers' and Klopp's was even worse with a relegation and fuck all else on there.

 

Paul, you're right that it's not ideal, but to be honest, it's a route I'd have rather we gone down. The fella could have been backed better by FSG 100% to do the job, but that's another discussion for another thread altogether.

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The biggest difference between the last 20 years and our great teams of the past is not CL or money it's the crap scouting system. Clemence, Grobbellaar, Neal, Hughes, Hansen, Yeats, Nicol, Whelan, Keegan, Heighway, Rush, St John and numerous other previously anonymous players were signed for peanuts and became legends. It's not happening now and hasn't for a long time.

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I don't know. Maybe they had people on the board who knew a lot about football and spotted potential.

 

Do you disagree that looking at a manager's track record is the best way to see what they might achieve in the future?

 

I don't think anyone believes it to be irrelevant but i honestly hope we dig a bit deeper than that when we're appointing the most important person at the club.

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I don’t see how we get back in unless FFP is properly implemented.

City are apparently likely to add Pepe to Fernandinho, Navas, Negredo and Jovetic, taking their outlay to over £100 million this summer. Their spending is beyond ridiculous, no sanely run club can compete.

 

The only way I see the PL doing anying about financial “doping” is if it really starts to impact on the Mancs, the jewel in their global TV rights crown. If the league turns into a 2 horse race between City and Chelsea over the next few seasons the Mancs could fall away badly. They’re already struggling to attract players that would improve them.

 

The PL “product” has survived one of its 2 biggest global TV draws, us, dropping out of contention. I’d be surprised if they stood by and let the same thing happen to the other.

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I don’t see how we get back in unless FFP is properly implemented.

City are apparently likely to add Pepe to Fernandinho, Navas, Negredo and Jovetic, taking their outlay to over £100 million this summer. Their spending is beyond ridiculous, no sanely run club can compete.

 

The only way I see the PL doing anying about financial “doping” is if it really starts to impact on the Mancs, the jewel in their global TV rights crown. If the league turns into a 2 horse race between City and Chelsea over the next few seasons the Mancs could fall away badly. They’re already struggling to attract players that would improve them.

 

The PL “product” has survived one of its 2 biggest global TV draws, us, dropping out of contention. I’d be surprised if they stood by and let the same thing happen to the other.

 

FFP is a busted flush already, it has had a limited effect of causing clubs like City to hesitate but it hasn't prevented their spending. They're getting around it by inflating sponsorship deals and buying as many assets for the club as possible.

 

FFP is a flawed concept anyway, it's intention is not to create a level playing field but rather to protect the interests of the established elite against new money upstarts.

 

It'll end up in the courts and go the way of Bosman if UEFA every really try to implement it.

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Guest davelfc

The PL “product” has survived one of its 2 biggest global TV draws, us, dropping out of contention. I’d be surprised if they stood by and let the same thing happen to the other.

 

Sam_tyler_strange_face.jpg

 

Sam, Sam, come back Sam.

 

Talk about living in the past. How the fuck did the PL product survive Blackburn dropping out of contention?

 

The biggest draws are the current top teams, no matter who they are. A lot of fans overseas have several shirts, they just wear the one that is winning this year. I've never seen a citeh top worn in Singapore for example, but then I've not been there for three years, I bet they're common now.

 

We are so important in our own heads, which is fine but please lets not get carried away, we've not been a top team for a very long time and this is usually the part where I'd go off into some destructive rant, however I really don't give a shit.

 

If the mancs drop out then the PL product embraces the next team to take their place, if you don't understand that then there's really no point me explaining further.

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I don't know. Maybe they had people on the board who knew a lot about football and spotted potential.

 

Do you disagree that looking at a manager's track record is the best way to see what they might achieve in the future?

ask the dung about gollum then...

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Hermes has a very good point. When was the last time an unknown came from lower leagues and became a regular? Doesn't seem to happen all across the PL at all.

 

I suspect it's more to do with premier league clubs hoovering up talent at 13,14,15 etc then anything to do with scouting.

 

There's some crazy money spent on kids these days that just wouldn't have happened back in the day.

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I live in Brazil, most of the time, where PL games are mostly shown on ESPN Brazil; Fox Sports shows one occasionally, too. ESPN usually shows 2 matches - the mancs, Chelsea, the usual. But I saw lots of our games, too. We're still a draw, even if we're not competing for the league or in the CL.

 

ESPN has also shown the friendlies in Indonesia and Australian, and will show the one in Thailand, too, I believe.

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A good' date=' well argued piece Dave.

 

Unfortunately, with an MD and manager on work experience, and ownesr committed to no extraordinary net investment, our chances of a CL return in the near future are slim.[/quote']

 

How do you know that the owners are not committed?

 

I don't even know why I'm bothering asking you, you trot out the same boring shit time and time again.

 

Great piece as usual Dave.

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This piece should be pinned to the forum. Hits nail on head.

 

If this were footy manager, 50 million would be brilliant, but it's not, and the best players will join teams with more pulling power than us right now. Unearth a gem? S heard to do, scouting networks are global, and the best players generally get picked up by the best clubs. And the richest clubs stockpile the talent these days.

 

If we sell Suarez to Arsenal, we sell them 4th place, simple as that. And after that, we accept our place as a mid table team.

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No. But he has a proven record as a manager. Why not appoint someone with a proven record instead of a novice?

 

FSG don't like people working with them who will challenge them, they favour placemen who owe their jobs and careers to them.

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I don’t see how we get back in unless FFP is properly implemented.

 

We need to spend more wisely. We have the 9th biggest turnover in the world even without Champions League football. But we continually blow our financial resource on the wrong players.

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carragher_gerrard460.jpg

Between 2005-09 Liverpool FC were arguably the most consistent team in the Champions League. In that five year period under Rafa Benitez, the Reds reached two finals; winning one they should have lost and losing one they should have won. In addition to those finals, there was also a narrow semifinal defeat to Chelsea, while the following year saw a loss to the same opposition at the quarterfinal stage. The lone 'failure' was a loss to Benfica in the 'Last 16' stage in 2006.

 

For that five year period, Liverpool were genuinely big time again. Maybe not top dogs in their own country, but around Europe the Reds' reputation was sky high and attracting players was relatively easy for the most part. When you combined the name and rich tradition of 'Liverpool FC' with 'Champions League Football' and those incredible European nights at Anfield, there were very few players who didn't fancy experiencing a bit of that.

 

Sadly, things have changed now. The name and rich tradition is still there but Champions League football is no longer on offer and it's beginning to have an impact when it comes to attracting -- and indeed keepi

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Most great managers had a period where they had not yet been great. The amount of times it is said despite Klopp virtually tapping the point of the view on the shoulder and winking at it is painful.

 

The fact that I can probably watch Dortmund's reserves online somewhere if I want to probably tells you what you need to know about why the flow of unknowns for pennies has dried up.

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The biggest difference between the last 20 years and our great teams of the past is not CL or money it's the crap scouting system. Clemence, Grobbellaar, Neal, Hughes, Hansen, Yeats, Nicol, Whelan, Keegan, Heighway, Rush, St John and numerous other previously anonymous players were signed for peanuts and became legends. It's not happening now and hasn't for a long time.

 

Tbf, it's hard almost to the point of being impossible to get those kind of players now, simply because EVERYONE'S scouting system is so good in comparison to what it used to be.

Those sort of players will still exist, but they'll hardly ever be found at the likes of Scunthorpe, Blackpool, Chester, Northampton or lower league Scottish teams any more. Because players that good will have already been hoovered up, sometimes at a ridiculously young age by whichever big club takes them to their academy.

Of course there is no reason why we shouldn't be one of those big teams doing the hoovering but, there is intense competition from both Manc clubs, the big London clubs, even Everton when it comes to local kids and, Rangers and Celtic in Scotland. To some extent even the likes of Leeds, Newcastle and Villa, depending on the whereabouts of the young player involved will provide competition for us if we are trying to sign players at a young age.

It's all just so much more complicated and difficult now compared to when you could miraculously find not one, but two world class players at the likes of Scunthorpe.

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