Mkhitaryan

[Barrington Womble 10,987]

 

Spot on Barry.

 

Like I said last night' date=' my hunch is we've tried to be clever and do this on the cheap, screwing Shakhtar out of a few million. It's all well and good playing the waiting game when you're signing an Aspas with little competition for the signature, however with our current standing in the game and with Champions League clubs also sniffing around, the only way to do the deal is to get in quickly, pay the asking price and tie it up. The club now seem to be suggesting this was unexpected and they were expecting this to drag on for weeks, in that case I wonder if this deal was always totally dependent on them getting money for Suarez. Either way it's backfired. I find this idea that we were always willing to pay the asking price a little bit hard to swallow.[/quote']

 

It just seems to me we can do deals in willing seller markets (sturridge, coutinho, Alberto) or if there's a release clause (like Allen and Aspas), we just seem fucking hopeless when a club don't want to sell or want a good fee. I don't mind us not wanting to get ripped off, but are we that poor at negotiating that we can't tell if we're talking to someone who's bluffing us or is actually steadfast in they want their dough? The secret to good negotiating is quickly identifying when a deal can be done and if it looks like it can't, move onto the next one. We seem incapable of achieving this, it's almost like we think we can hypnotise people into accepting our shit offer. That or we're happy to play the dance to fool the fans.

[Gym Beglin 1,429]

However you look at it, Doetmund basically swapped Gotze for Mkhitaryan. Fail.

[Lee909 13,013]

However you look at it' date=' Doetmund basically swapped Gotze for Mkhitaryan. Fail.[/quote']

 

What you mean is they have swapped Gotze and 8ml or so for Mkhitaryan,Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang and Sokratis

[elvis 317]

It just seems to me we can do deals in willing seller markets (sturridge, coutinho, Alberto) or if there's a release clause (like Allen and Aspas), we just seem fucking hopeless when a club don't want to sell or want a good fee. I don't mind us not wanting to get ripped off, but are we that poor at negotiating that we can't tell if we're talking to someone who's bluffing us or is actually steadfast in they want their dough? The secret to good negotiating is quickly identifying when a deal can be done and if it looks like it can't, move onto the next one. We seem incapable of achieving this, it's almost like we think we can hypnotise people into accepting our shit offer. That or we're happy to play the dance to fool the fans.

 

No disrespect , but this is all guesswork - my guess is that he was stringing us along hoping a more glamorous club came in for him . They didn't so he chose Dortmund over us and when your heart isn't ruling your head its a simple choice.

[Randy Marsh 15]

No disrespect , but this is all guesswork - my guess is that he was stringing us along hoping a more glamorous club came in for him . They didn't so he chose Dortmund over us and when your heart isn't ruling your head its a simple choice.

 

Shakhtar said they only ever received a bid from Dortmund. If, as the Echo and the rest are reporting, we were willing to match the fee then why didn't we do it? We could have met the price and had a bid accepted weeks ago if we were willing to match Dortmund. It doesn't add up for me. You're right in that all of this is guesswork, but I certainly think the club's version of events leaked to a few of the papers this morning seems a bit weak.

[coop 12]

We could have told Shakhtar we would pay them £40m but unless we agreed a fee with the third party owners then the player was going nowhere.

 

We already know that Shakhtar want £25m as they have been briefing the press about it all summer so we needed to agree a deal with the third party owners before moving on to the actual selling club.

 

In Germany third party ownership is allowed therefore as long as Dortmund can agree a fee with Shakhtar then they can allow Mkhitaryan to remain under third party ownership meaning it is a much simpler deal for them to conclude, even though it has hit a stumbling block over valuation.

[Guest San Don]

Shakhtar said they only ever received a bid from Dortmund. If, as the Echo and the rest are reporting, we were willing to match the fee then why didn't we do it? We could have met the price and had a bid accepted weeks ago if we were willing to match Dortmund. It doesn't add up for me. You're right in that all of this is guesswork, but I certainly think the club's version of events leaked to a few of the papers this morning seems a bit weak.

 

I think we should step back a little and look at it in a bit more detail. Shakhtar said they only received one bid. Didnt they say they wanted 30m euros for this player? Didnt they say he's going nowhere?

 

In my humble experience, I'd be sceptical about actual events rather than believing what they said.

 

We also need to look at the timeline here. They player clearly wanted a move hence him not reporting to the training camp with the club. I presume we spoke directly or indirectly to his agent about a move and probably got encouragement.

 

I understood we did start negotiations with shakhtar but then found this player is owned by more than just his club?

 

Despite all this, dortmund then came on the scene. They obviously sold themselves to the player on the basis of CL football (last season's beaten finalists) and challenging for the CL.

 

It wouldnt surprise me in the least if they pointed out Liverpool were neither in Europe never mind the CL nor challenging for the PL.

 

Obviously everyone has a take on this but, mine is just the player weighed up his options and decided dortmund were the better bet.

 

All the papers I read said this signing would have been a coup for us given the the player's profile and where we are at.

 

Being out of Europe is hurting us. Being out of the CL is hurting us and being out of contention for the PL is hurting us. I know people point to us signing suarez when we werent in the CL. He's allegedly looking to leave for a club in the CL.

 

Think that speaks volumes.

[Barrington Womble 10,987]

 

Shakhtar said they only ever received a bid from Dortmund. If' date=' as the Echo and the rest are reporting, we were willing to match the fee then why didn't we do it? We could have met the price and had a bid accepted weeks ago if we were willing to match Dortmund. It doesn't add up for me. You're right in that all of this is guesswork, but I certainly think the club's version of events leaked to a few of the papers this morning seems a bit weak.[/quote']

 

Spot on.

[coop 12]

Ok then what if we bid £25m to Shakhtar, then what.

 

We still have to agree a fee with the third party owners who we don't know how much they wanted or if they were even willing sellers.

 

We know the fee Shakhtar wanted so why even bother making a bid, does it not make sense to try and agree a fee with the more troublesome third party owners first.

[PaulMcC 13]

But being out of Europe is a blessing. Remember? A poll on the official site said so, too.

[elvis 317]

But being out of Europe is a blessing. Remember? A poll on the official site said so, too.

 

 

Positives and negatives obviously , if we can keep Suarez and get a couple more quality players in then we can have a good crack at the top four and the pitiful Europa league wont be a distraction

[Johnny Cougar 345]

We obviously never got a chance to tell him that we won the League Cup 16 months ago.

 

That could have been the clincher aswell.

 

Instead the fool decides to join those no marks Dortmund who are in the Champions League.

[Johnny Cougar 345]

We obviously never got a chance to tell him that we won the League Cup 16 months ago.

 

That could have been the clincher aswell.

 

Instead the fool decides to join those no marks Dortmund who are in the Champions League.

[PaulMcC 13]

Positives and negatives obviously , if we can keep Suarez and get a couple more quality players in then we can have a good crack at the top four and the pitiful Europa league wont be a distraction

 

No negatives at all about being in europe. We're pitiful in the league so might as well try to win something. Or, manage the squad and prioritise the league while still trying to win cups. We've done it in the past. We're nowhere near winning the league and should never think winning cups is beneath us.

[Bobby Hundreds 10,445]

Sick of the champions league bollocks we won it 8 years ago and got to another final a couple of years later all of a sudden we weren't in it for a few years so now we are an insignificant shit club. My arse. Players need to wise up and see there's more to it, like helping a side achieve the status they want. Little fucktards want it all on a plate. Its a damn annual competition it happens every single year many teams who are in it have little chance of being in it for long. Fuck players and the media and this constant champions league spiff, its all about money and nothing else the champions league just gives them a footballing excuse.

[Bellflower 130]

Estate Agent " Well, are you going to make an offer ? "

Alan Partridge " yes I am, ermm, how much is it ? "

EA " It's on at three hundred and twenty five. "

AP " would you take three hundred and twenty................four ? "

EA " yeah ! "

AP " result "

 

That's the way to do it Ian lad.

Oh' you already do........................

[elvis 317]

No negatives at all about being in europe. We're pitiful in the league so might as well try to win something. Or, manage the squad and prioritise the league while still trying to win cups. We've done it in the past. We're nowhere near winning the league and should never think winning cups is beneath us.

 

 

Really ? , if you are talking about the Champions league yes , but the europa league is a long hard slog with little reward in my opinion.

[xerxes 1,314]

my hunch is we've tried to be clever and do this on the cheap, screwing Shakhtar out of a few million. It's all well and good playing the waiting game when you're signing an Aspas with little competition for the signature, however with our current standing in the game and with Champions League clubs also sniffing around, the only way to do the deal is to get in quickly, pay the asking price and tie it up. The club now seem to be suggesting this was unexpected and they were expecting this to drag on for weeks, in that case I wonder if this deal was always totally dependent on them getting money for Suarez. Either way it's backfired. I find this idea that we were always willing to pay the asking price a little bit hard to swallow.

 

The Times is saying that there was never any formal contact between ourselves and Shakhtar, only with some of the player's representatives.

 

The odds were stacked against this deal. East Europeans are high risk culturally ,and we can't offer European, let alone CL football.

 

His agents will have been happy to ramp up the terms and price by courting us.

 

There will be other targets, more realistic ones, which we can tie up.

[MajesticSuarez 2]

I can see only one thing...smokescreen.

 

Liverpool are just after doing what they did in January. I read somewhere in early may that Liverpools 1st choice midfield target was Christian Eriksen. Mkhitayran was an alternative target.

 

Are Liverpool after clearing the way for themselves to sign Eriksen who was a one-time target for Borussia Dortmund? There is no chance of Spurs going in for Eriksen now seeing as they've signed Paulinho.

 

Have Liverpool bamboozled Borussia Dortmund and the media? If Liverpool end up signing Christian Eriksen, it will mean that they actually have.

[dickie mint 751]

The Times is saying that there was never any formal contact between ourselves and Shakhtar, only with some of the player's representatives.

 

The odds were stacked against this deal. East Europeans are high risk culturally ,and we can't offer European, let alone CL football.

 

His agents will have been happy to ramp up the terms and price by courting us.

 

There will be other targets, more realistic ones, which we can tie up.

 

 

Does that mean cheaper and not as good targets mate.

[MajesticSuarez 2]

Does that mean cheaper and not as good targets mate.

 

 

Cheaper doesn't not necessarily mean lower quality. Let's take Christian Benteke and Andy Carroll as an example £7 million vs £35 million. Or Yohan Cabaye and Michael Carrick £3.5 million vs £18.6 millon.

 

Rumour has it, not sure if it's fact or speculation. Liverpool could sign Toby Alderwield and Christian Eriksen for the same amount as it would have cost to sign Mkhitayran.

[Barzini 287]

I can see only one thing...smokescreen.

 

Liverpool are just after doing what they did in January. I read somewhere in early may that Liverpools 1st choice midfield target was Christian Eriksen. Mkhitayran was an alternative target.

 

Are Liverpool after clearing the way for themselves to sign Eriksen who was a one-time target for Borussia Dortmund? There is no chance of Spurs going in for Eriksen now seeing as they've signed Paulinho.

 

Have Liverpool bamboozled Borussia Dortmund and the media? If Liverpool end up signing Christian Eriksen, it will mean that they actually have.

 

[MajesticSuarez 2]

 

You're actually supposed to leave a comment after quoting :wallbutt:

[SCOUSE TAPAS 521]

Cheaper doesn't not necessarily mean lower quality. Let's take Christian Benteke and Andy Carroll as an example £7 million vs £35 million. Or Yohan Cabaye and Michael Carrick £3.5 million vs £18.6 millon.

 

Rumour has it, not sure if it's fact or speculation. Liverpool could sign Toby Alderwield and Christian Eriksen for the same amount as it would have cost to sign Mkhitayran.

Theres one pretty major flaw in your non stop where signing him or no we not signing mind changing ramblings.

Eriksen has said he aint he coming here, he isn't interested in joining us. But don't let that stop the madness going on inside your head.

[polymerpunkah 1,447]

The one thing I still don't understand is why they would tell anyone who our transfer targets are? I can't see it helping. It only puts them in the position of having egg on face if things don't work out.