Suarez: Sell or Keep?

[Jack the Sipper]

Haven't read back, but are we discussing Suarez's (alleged) racism because we (may) have reason not to like him anymore?

 

I only mentioned it because it was already being discussed, with a couple of falsehoods and assumptions being stated as fact.

 

As I said, today, and at the time of the report, he should never have been convicted of the charges (minus one) on the evidence and, even that one charge that I think he was guilty of, I don't hold against him, no more than I do any of the other stupid things he's done to try and get an edge in a game.

[Josef Svejk]

Nah, because jsims is being a 'tard.

 

Ok, missed that (this time).

 

I call him JizzSims. For good reason.

[Josef Svejk]

I only mentioned it because it was already being discussed, with a couple of falsehoods and assumptions being stated as fact.

 

As I said, today, and at the time of the report, he should never have been convicted of the charges (minus one) on the evidence and, even that one charge that I think he was guilty of, I don't hold against him, no more than I do any of the other stupid things he's done to try and get an edge in a game.

 

As Roy Keane once put it - in his usual eloquent manner - "I'm not arguin' wit'cha"...

[Section_31]

Arsenal are so good at utilising strikers that RVP became a top goalscorer when he left, because for the first time he was actually getting crosses and was in a team that was playing to his strengths.

 

If you gave Arsenal a golf club, they'd probably try and fuck it.

[Josef Svejk]

Arsenal are so good at utilising strikers that RVP became a top goalscorer when he left, because for the first time he was actually getting crosses and was in a team that was playing to his strengths.

 

If you gave Arsenal a golf club, they'd probably try and fuck it.

 

In fairness to Wenger, both Henry and Van Persie were recognised wingers when he bought them...

[Section_31]

In fairness to Wenger, both Henry and Van Persie were recognised wingers when he bought them...

 

Wasn't Henry always a striker but was put out on the wing because he was a shite finisher? Used to watch a lot of the French league and him and Trezeguet were the main up and coming strikers in the league if I remember right, but as I say Henry was always nearly there but not quite - Andy Cole style.

[Josef Svejk]

Wasn't Henry always a striker but was put out on the wing because he was a shite finisher? Used to watch a lot of the French league and him and Trezeguet were the main up and coming strikers in the league if I remember right, but as I say Henry was always nearly there but not quite - Andy Cole style.

 

I only remember him playing on the left in France. Could be a false memory, though...

[Bobby Hundreds]

We can't become the stepping stone to the ultimate stepping stone club.

 

For what its worth I think he'll be brilliant for them which is why I don't want it to happen, he goes there and il fucking curse Ayre and FSG, ill be rolling dem bones.

[FrenchEyeGlass]

You're carrying on as if we were looking at this incident as if it came out of nowhere, with no background or context, and we can only guess at Suarez's motives. This wasn't the case. It followed an altercation between the two. That's when Suarez called Evra a 'negro'. To my mind, it seems more reasonable to deduce that he did mean it in an offensive rather than an affectionate way.

 

And then, looking at Suarez's character on the field as whole, supports the idea that he was baiting Evra. He's had plenty of form for it since. He bit that Russian, FFS! Now, that doesn't make him a cannibal (just as him calling someone a racist term doesn't make him racist) but, by the same token, you'd have a hard job convincing anyone that he was giving him a love bite. It seems obvious to me that he was trying to put Evra off his stride (as he does with others) and knowingly resorted to racial abuse in this instance.

And how do you know that 'negro' isn't an offensive term in his mind? it might not be where he comes from (although, as I understand it, even there it can be depending on the context), but who's to say he hadn't learnt at some point, say his time in Europe, that it is considered offensive. Are you ruling out that possibility? That would be odd. even odder when we look at the Evra incident and accept (as anyone with common sense surely must) that he wasn't being affectionate when he used that term to him.

 

As for whether or not the FA should have jurisdiction over such matters is another issue. I would probably agree, but when I said he should've been punished for that remark I was referring to the fact that he was judged (for better or worse) by an FA appointed panel with their balance of probability criteria. And, on balance, I think he did mean it offensively.

 

And, now you mention the Terry case, he was found not guilty because Terry's defence (that he was only repeating back what he thought Ferdinand said) couldn't be found to be false beyond reasonable doubt. Do you believe that was the case, that what Terry said was true?

 

Everything is bold doesn't matter. You're confusing opinion, conjecture, speculation with fact.

 

To briefly respond to the stuff thats not bolded (briefly because I've discussed it at length so often in the past)...

 

1. I didn't say I knew it wasn't offensive in his mind. But you can't prove it and certainly, on the balance of probability I would suggest he didn't. It would be insane and inane to suggest that because dives, argues, bites, 'cheats' on the pitch that he would also happily racially abuse somebody. I find it astounding that you and so many others put these in the same category of offence. Racism is abhorrent and one of the most disgusting things an individual can display, in my opinion. I certainly haven't seen a single thing that suggest Suarez is likely to display it.

 

2. Sure he could have learnt that it was offensive in Europe - though, again, I don't think it's as likely as you suggest. Whilst he was at Ajax he openly called his black teammates negro on the training ground, suggesting that nobody was telling him it was wrong in that instance.

 

3. 'Balance of probability' is fucking bollocks and shouldn't determine anybody's punishment, ever. I fucking despise John Terry but I found it pathetic, rotten and moronic that the FA charged him for something the legal system cleared him off. It was disgusting. When you start nominating kangaroo courts to serve arbitrary, high-handed justice then the punishment is always going to be wrong, no matter the offender, the offence or the punishment.

 

4. No, I think what Terry said was a load of bollocks. What I think doesn't matter, though. He still shouldn't have been charged by the FA.

 

Edit: Lets stop this now, it happened ages ago and I can't be bothered to discuss it any more.

[xerxes]

 

Do I think Suarez is a racist? Nah. Do I think he'd say just about anything to anybody on the pitch? Fuck yeah. That doesn't mean the FA didn't call it wrong, it doesn't mean it wouldn't be thrown out of court (I mean, John Terry called somebody a 'fucking black cunt', clear as day, and got fuck all).

 

 

A fair summary.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

There were microphones located all around the pitch that picked up what he said.

 

You think our lawyers would have gone to trial without that eveidence?

 

Fucking hell your abit of a thick bastard arent you?

 

You want it to be some big conspiracy and some big thing against Suarez and Liverpool?

 

Sorry to burst your bubble but its not, the man referred to a player by his skin colour and he got caught doing it

 

The fucking End

 

Another stupid post from another stupid person.

 

Jizzbag, read this before posting on this subject again.

http://www.bakchich.info/sites/bakchich.info/files/article_files/fa_v_suarez_written_reasons_of_regulatory_commission_0.pdf

 

If you can find a single word of credible evidence against Suarez, you'll win my Kingdom and my daughter's hand in marriage.

 

With regard to two specific "thick bastard" points from your post:

1. There doesn't need to be a conspiracy against LFC and/or Suarez. The FA most likely wanted to be seen to be "tough on racism" and lost sight of the fact that their job was to determine what actually happened. The FA (as is now widely acknowledged) are fucking incompetent when it comes to dealing with the subject of racism. I believe this was just another example of that.

 

2. Referring to a player by his skin colour is not an offence. Using "abusive and/or insulting words and/or behaviour" is an offence; it is aggravated if the insulting words/behaviour "include a reference to ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race". Suarez never "got caught" doing anything. Evra made five implausible, inconsistent and utterly unsubstantiated allegations. The FA added one for the pot (which neither Suarez nor Evra claimed happened). Suarez admitted to one use of the word "negro", which the Spanish language and culture experts called by the FA both agreed "would not be interpreted as either offensive or offensive in racial terms".

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Shit, your arguement got so weak you had to resort to picking on grammar. Hahahahaha

 

Thats pretty funny

 

The fact you think multimillion pound lawyers would go to trial without evidence is also pretty funny.

 

Get some rest, you sound like you need it. Don't draw the curtains though you might get the wrong idea when you wake up in a dark room

 

;)

What fucking trial, Cockwash?

[Tony Moanero]

Give it a rest, you fucking farts. He's going!

[Bobby Hundreds]

Well arsenal couldn't even win their own little tournament.

[xerxes]

If you can find a single word of credible evidence against Suarez, you'll win my Kingdom and my daughter's hand in marriage.

 

Suarez himself admitted to using the word negro.The Charge against Suarez was that he used insulting words which ( he admitted) included a reference to Mr Evra's colour.

 

He claimed that he was being friendly:P

 

Can I have your Kingdom now, and is your daughter fit?

[Tony Moanero]

Suarez himself admitted to using the word negro.The Charge against Suarez was that he used insulting words which ( he admitted) included a reference to Mr Evra's colour.

 

He claimed that he was being friendly:P

 

Can I have your Kingdom now, and is your daughter fit?

 

Fit women are attracted to men, not pussies, xerxes.

[xerxes]

Fit women are attracted to men, not pussies, xerxes.

As a lesbian it appears you are out of the running in judgement, and gender then;)

[Tony Moanero]

As a lesbian it appears you are out of the running in judgement, and gender then;)

 

Ha Ha

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Suarez himself admitted to using the word negro.The Charge against Suarez was that he used insulting words which ( he admitted) included a reference to Mr Evra's colour.

 

He claimed that he was being friendly:P

 

Can I have your Kingdom now, and is your daughter fit?

You think negro is an insulting word? (What are you, some kind of racist?)

 

The entire population of South America - plus the FA's hired language experts - disagree with you.

 

Read the report. The FA twisted the language experts' opinions so that they would only accept a friendly or conciliatory use of the word: the FA decided that they would call anything else racist. Bollocks, of course. There are a million shades of meaning between "friendly or conciliatory" and "insulting". Suarez has consistently described the following exchange

- Evra (in English) "Don't touch me, South American!"

- Suarez (in Spanish) "Porque, negro?"

 

If we accept that Suarez's reference to ethnic origin was not in a friendly or conciliatory manner - and is therefore racist, in the FA's terms - then surely Evra is at least as guilty of racism.

[Section_31]

We can't become the stepping stone to the ultimate stepping stone club.

 

For what its worth I think he'll be brilliant for them which is why I don't want it to happen, he goes there and il fucking curse Ayre and FSG, ill be rolling dem bones.

 

I'm not so sure. He does tend to slow the play I find and arse have always been based on quick passing and having strikers who run through on goal, that is actually Suarez's weakest trait - there's probably about 100 posts on here of people doing their nut because Suarez was through on goal and fucked it up. He's nowhere near the finisher that Torres was in those situations, IMO. He's a genius though no doubt, but obviously a troubled one - how Arsenals predominantly foreign squad would take to his weird shit remains to be seen.

[jsims]

 

2. Referring to a player by his skin colour is not an offence.

 

Stopped reading after that

[MLB]

I don't think Suarez would be that great in Arsenal's set up either.

[PaulMcC]

Suarez would be brilliant in any team.

[Bjornebye]

Suarez would be brilliant in any team.

 

Yep.

[Dan Vito Corleone]

I think he'd do well but I can understand what people are saying. Suarez isn't the quickest, that's not what his game is about. But he is a better player than anything Arsenal have currently, that's why it's so important we keep him out of their grasping hands.