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Quote from: Arcadian on Today at 06:51:57 AM

 

Has anyone mentioned that Stevie wanted to leave yet?.

 

Louis Suarez? He lights my pants on fire at the weekend, and then he pisses in my cornflakes. He's amazing, he's wasteful, he's unpredictable, he's genius and idiot combined. I love to see him with a Liverbird upon his chest but I'm sick to death of these ridiculous interviews on international breaks as well as the obvious problems.

 

It's a team sport. It's hard to remember that when Louis is nutmegging two defenders but he is actually replaceable. There comes a point when the sum total of your contribution gets weighed and his has tipped into the negative for me.

 

If the lad says tomorrow "I want to be here, I'm committed" then we should look to offload regardless. I realise that sounds foolish but it's out there now, and he put it out there. The sooner we start acting like no player is bigger than the club rather than just saying it, is the day we move on to taking back control of the situation, and other situations like it.

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From RAWK. Great post, agree with all of it.

 

Sell, sell, sell. Let's take control of this situation, and let's play Madrid off City, Monaco, Chelsea and Bayern and see if we can't make Madrid and Suarez sweat on it a bit.

 

But we need to stop this revolving door of Iberian and South American players, it's not a recruitment policy for a top British club.

United don't lag themselves in these players, their dalliance being De Gea, Anderson, Rafael, Fabio, Valencia but none of them are integral to the team or their success. They aren't the worldies.

 

Arsenal achieved success with a team built on French and English players primarily. Very seldom did they leave for Barca and Madrid.

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Clubs like Real and Barca will always pick on even the top British clubs, however every time they do, they have to let go class players.

.

 

 

It ALL depends on the player wanting to go or not.

Spanish and South American players want to go, without fail.

Northern European players don't mind as much and can be persuaded to stay without much fuss.

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He is 27 and one of the world's best players and not even playing in the Europa league, some 18 year old who's done nothing told him to fuck off losing at Oldham, awful press, foreign speaking country, not surprised at all

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It ALL depends on the player wanting to go or not.

Spanish and South American players want to go, without fail.

Northern European players don't mind as much and can be persuaded to stay without much fuss.

 

I think you just have to accept this when you buy players from abroad. They have absolutely no affection for us when we sign them, and the only way to keep them happy is to be successful on the pitch, and/or give them shit loads of money. Unfortunately for us we're not in the position to do either at the moment and haven't been for the past 3/4 seasons.

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Michael Owen had no affection for the club! And it is doubtful that McManaman ever did. This isn't about foreign players - it is just about modern footballers.

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Wait. So our policy should be sign players who were born in Northern Europe?

 

Our recruitment policy should be to look for the players who are the best at what they do in their position. Regardless of where that player comes from. There are plenty of British players who have no affinity to the clubs they play for. Rooney has wanted to transfer out of Utd for the last two season. He's one example, but there are plenty of others. Let's not limit our signing of players to a fear of where they come from and that they might leave.

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Wait. So our policy should be sign players who were born in Northern Europe?

 

Our recruitment policy should be to look for the players who are the best at what they do in their position. Regardless of where that player comes from. There are plenty of British players who have no affinity to the clubs they play for. Rooney has wanted to transfer out of Utd for the last two season. He's one example, but there are plenty of others. Let's not limit our signing of players to a fear of where they come from and that they might leave.

 

Not sure about anyone else, but I wasn't suggesting we shouldn't buy players from abroad. I was saying we should be realistic about keeping hold of them if a) we're not competitive and or b) we don't offer them what they can get elsewhere. For the record I reckon being successful on the pitch is more important in keeping hold of the majority of players.

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From RAWK. Great post, agree with all of it.

 

Sell, sell, sell. Let's take control of this situation, and let's play Madrid off City, Monaco, Chelsea and Bayern and see if we can't make Madrid and Suarez sweat on it a bit.

 

But we need to stop this revolving door of Iberian and South American players, it's not a recruitment policy for a top British club.

United don't lag themselves in these players, their dalliance being De Gea, Anderson, Rafael, Fabio, Valencia but none of them are integral to the team or their success. They aren't the worldies.

 

Arsenal achieved success with a team built on French and English players primarily. Very seldom did they leave for Barca and Madrid.

 

Hmm, Arsenal have sold all manor of players to Barcelona/Real Madrid.

 

Anelka

Petit

Overmars

Van Bronckhorst

Henry

Hleb

Fabregas

Song

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I have to agree, we have to play hard ball and get at least 30M-35M + Higuain/Benzema/di Maria or 40M + Callejon, hell they can even give us Arbeloa back for all I care. As long as we don't get bent over! There has been some good shouts on here about hypotetical incoming players in defence we could get Papadopoulos/Alderweiereld (and hopefully he is similar to Vertonghen) and a younger one (Thiago Ilori or sth), Luke Shaw is a decent shout for left-back, we should probably get Diame (p/x + cash for Carroll) or Wanyama or some other midfield monster. Regarding winger/striker positions we could consider Eriksen, Mertens, Lamela, Son,... Iago Aspas looks a done deal already, we should look into that young Colombian lad from Udinese and Atsu from Porto as younger, up and coming. Combined with what we already have (Sterling, Ibe, Wisdom), I'm pretty sure that from all these players at least a few will be world-class..

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Hmm, Arsenal have sold all manor of players to Barcelona/Real Madrid.

 

Anelka

Petit

Overmars

Van Bronckhorst

Henry

Hleb

Fabregas

Song

 

 

I'm not sure I'd class Hleb and Van Bronckhorst as key players, I think they sold Sylvinho to Barca as well? Again, not a massive loss.

 

Also, Henry's best years were at Arsenal, all 7 of them. Same with Vieira, they kept him for 9 years and sold him when he reached 29/30.

 

Petit was an odd one, having three years at Arsenal, then one season at Barca when he reached 30, and then coming back to London to play for Chelsea for three years.

 

Of that list, I think Fabregas, Song and Overmars were the sales they wish they didn't have to make but had no choice.

I think the rest of those players were sold with the club's blessing in the end.

 

I'd love to have gotten 7 to 9 years out of Mascherano or Alonso, or Suarez, and even Arbeloa.

 

It's no coincidence that United go from strength to strength through keeping a group of excellent players together for a longer period than their rivals. It was only through gritted teeth that they sold Ronaldo, again, Iberian player gravitating towards Spain's big teams.

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I just hope we don't buy loads of 'potential.' We need some players who are nearly guaranteed to be good enough this coming season.

 

If you keep buying potential, by the time you wait for them to reach their potential your best players who are genuine class will leave.

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I just hope we don't buy loads of 'potential.' We need some players who are nearly guaranteed to be good enough this coming season.

 

If you keep buying potential, by the time you wait for them to reach their potential your best players who are genuine class will leave.

 

 

But that's exactly what's going to happen. Which part of moneyball is not clear?

 

You buy players at 18-23 and you sell them around 25-27.

 

As soon as Coutinho reaches 24-25. He will be sold for profit. Regardless the gap created to the team, or the potential of keeping him, building around him and winning trophies.

 

It's the glorified Arsenal model.

 

 

Michael Owen had no affection for the club! And it is doubtful that McManaman ever did. This isn't about foreign players - it is just about modern footballers.

 

Do you ever stop spouting shite? Is this your hobby?

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I have to agree, we have to play hard ball and get at least 30M-35M + Higuain/Benzema/di Maria or 40M + Callejon..

 

No thanks, if they're any good then we'll go through the same thing with them in 2-3 years time.

 

I bet they'd love us to help them get a big wage off the books for them.

 

I'd only consider two players from them, and that's Ozil or Modric. Even then, I want £30m on top for Suarez.

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But that's exactly what's going to happen. Which part of moneyball is not clear?

 

You buy players at 18-23 and you sell them around 25-27.

 

As soon as Coutinho reaches 24-25. He will be sold for profit. Regardless the gap created to the team, or the potential of keeping him, building around him and winning trophies.

 

It's the glorified Arsenal model.

 

Do you ever stop spouting shite? Is this your hobby?

 

Fucking hell, that's a bit rich coming from you!

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I'm not sure I'd class Hleb and Van Bronckhorst as key players, I think they sold Sylvinho to Barca as well? Again, not a massive loss.

 

Also, Henry's best years were at Arsenal, all 7 of them. Same with Vieira, they kept him for 9 years and sold him when he reached 29/30.

 

Petit was an odd one, having three years at Arsenal, then one season at Barca when he reached 30, and then coming back to London to play for Chelsea for three years.

 

Of that list, I think Fabregas, Song and Overmars were the sales they wish they didn't have to make but had no choice.

I think the rest of those players were sold with the club's blessing in the end.

 

I'd love to have gotten 7 to 9 years out of Mascherano or Alonso, or Suarez, and even Arbeloa.

 

It's no coincidence that United go from strength to strength through keeping a group of excellent players together for a longer period than their rivals. It was only through gritted teeth that they sold Ronaldo, again, Iberian player gravitating towards Spain's big teams.

 

I think that given the choice, Wenger would rather have kept Vieira and Henry. At 30, Vieira still had plenty to offer, as he went on to demonstrate at Juventus and Inter, as did Henry, who scored goals for Barcelona.

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Not sure about anyone else, but I wasn't suggesting we shouldn't buy players from abroad. I was saying we should be realistic about keeping hold of them if a) we're not competitive and or b) we don't offer them what they can get elsewhere. For the record I reckon being successful on the pitch is more important in keeping hold of the majority of players.

 

We should be realistic about keeping hold of 'them'? In the context of your sentence, it makes it look like you're talking about 'them' as players from abroad. Apologies if I misread you.

 

I think we should be realistic about keeping any player, regardless of where they come from. As mentioned before, Owen and McManaman were players from this country who once played for us. Talented players are not more or less loyal - they generally go where they can compete and get paid for their work.

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this point about south american/iberian players is bullshit. they leave because they are going to a better team. in some cases they go because they are going to get paid a shed load more than we offer.

 

of all the names bandied about, players like mascherano and alonso and torres didn't leave to move home, they moved to play for teams that were in the champions league or were clearly better teams than ours. we can hate chelsea all we want but there is a reason they've been in the CL the last X number of years. unlimited funds means they will always compete.

 

real madrid is one of the top 5 clubs in the world every year. same with barca.

 

if suarez was leaving us to play for atletico madrid or marseille or benefica, then i could understand the outrage, but he's not. its just the way football is nowadays.

 

and many a player left their club to come play for us when Rafa was here because we had a great squad and were very successful in the champions league. its always the CL that attracts players along with big wages.

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The only players you can rely on to stay at this club are the scousers that have been brought through the academy, thats it. Strangely the childhood bluenoses are historically the most loyal to the club.

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No thanks, if they're any good then we'll go through the same thing with them in 2-3 years time.

 

I bet they'd love us to help them get a big wage off the books for them.

 

I'd only consider two players from them, and that's Ozil or Modric. Even then, I want £30m on top for Suarez.

 

If those are 2 or 3 of their best years and then we sell them? I'd take Benz or Higuain if they score 80-90 goals for us in 3 seasons.. Who would you buy to make the team stronger?

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DETAILS: You filmed a lot of your new movie, Now You See Me, in New Orleans, and you're here again, making a detective series for HBO with Matthew McConaughey. Seems like the odds are 80/20 that you two free spirits will get arrested in this city at some point.

Woody Harrelson: That does seem likely, doesn't it? I imagine it will be for multiple charges: Drunk and disorderly would be at the top of the list, probably, and resisting arrest, no doubt. The good news is, we're playing cops, so maybe the New Orleans police will be more forgiving.

 

DETAILS: You've said that playing a cop has made you more sympathetic toward the police. Did playing Steve Schmidt in Game Change make you sympathetic to Republicans?

Woody Harrelson: I like Steve Schmidt. But I tend to not like politicians, because it's a subtle form of prostitution. Or maybe not so subtle.

 

DETAILS: So you dislike Democrats as much as you dislike the GOP?

Woody Harrelson: It's all synchronized swimming to me. They all kneel and kiss the ring. Who's going to take on the oil industry or the medical industry? People compare Obama to Lyndon Johnson, but I think a better comparison is between Obama and Nixon. Because Nixon came into office saying he was going to pull out of Vietnam, and then he escalated the war. A lot of us were led to believe that Obama was the peace president, but there are still, I think, 70,000 troops in Afghanistan. Corporations like Grumman are so powerful that—I don't know, is this the kind of shit we want to talk about? It's making me depressed.

 

DETAILS: Do you see similarities between Natural Born Killers and the Hunger Games films? Both look at how TV uses spectacle to keep people passive.

Woody Harrelson: With Hunger Games, it's about people rising up to fight against a corrupt government that controls them.

 

DETAILS: Now that you've wrapped Catching Fire, the Hunger Games sequel, can you tell us one plot point, something so small the studio won't care?

Woody Harrelson: They're probably going to be pissed about what I already said. They don't like you talking about this shit.

 

DETAILS: Your character, Haymitch, has long blond hair. As a bald guy, did you feel like keeping the wig?

Woody Harrelson: You know, it feels like the whole conversation is devolving.

 

DETAILS: Okay. You were raised in a very religious family. What were your twenties like, after Cheers made you a star?

Woody Harrelson: It was the time I shook off the yoke of organized religion and became a hedonist. I won't paint a sensationalistic picture for you, but you can imagine. I was famous, I was wealthy. I was an idiot. An absolute moron. I've done it with the best of them, and I've got no—well, I probably have one or two regrets. Honestly, I was lost.

 

DETAILS: You had a bad temper, too. How is it now?

Woody Harrelson: Pretty good. We don't get the greatest tools to deal with anger. It's like, "Hey, count to 10." When someone really upsets me, how do I respond? I don't usually start counting to 10 and breathing deeply. But, for example, I don't think you'll ever see me get into it with the paparazzi again.

 

DETAILS: If you could spend a weekend with any of the characters you've played, who would it be?

Woody Harrelson: Larry Flynt. I love that guy. He's one of the few people who's always 100 percent honest and doesn't give a shit if he offends people. I don't agree with all the porn stuff he publishes, but I shouldn't judge. It's like hanging with Steve Schmidt—I don't focus on the politics. With Larry, I don't focus on the porn.

 

DETAILS: You're an advocate for legalizing marijuana. Do you think recent events make it more likely?

Woody Harrelson: I can't imagine that it's going to happen, no. The deeper issue is, what does it mean to live in a free country? In the U.S., something like 80 percent of people in prison are there for "consensual crimes." The government may change faces from time to time, but it's not like we fight wars for democracy—we fight wars for capitalism and for oil. I keep coming back to the same goddamn subject. I guess because it's what really bugs me the most.

 

DETAILS: Do you want to get more involved in politics?

Woody Harrelson: No. I don't believe in politics. I'm an anarchist, I guess you could say. I think people could be just fine looking after themselves.

 

DETAILS: You might have a lot of free time on your hands soon, because you've talked about taking a break from acting.

Woody Harrelson: I like the idea of writing and directing my own projects. But I'm a lazy bastard. [Laughs] I know I could do more, let's put it that way. Instead, I just put on Game of Thrones.

 

 

Read More Q&A: Woody Harrelson: Movies + TV : Details

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The only players you can rely on to stay at this club are the scousers that have been brought through the academy, thats it. Strangely the childhood bluenoses are historically the most loyal to the club.

 

McManaman.

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Unfortunately, the only way to stop our best players leaving is to be owned by a Billionaire. You don't see Real or Barca trying to swipe players from Chelsea or City.

 

Arsenal have practically all their best players taken by Real, Barca, Chelsea, City (and the Mancs) in recent years. Even the Mancs could not hold on to Ronaldo.

 

The Mancs are lucky IMO, for having one generation of Giggs, Scholes, Beckham, Butt and the Neville bros that has been around practically since Fergie started winning.

 

All their world class players have come and gone, like Ronaldo, Van Nistlerooy, Staam, and now perhaps even Rooney.

 

Our closest to them are Gerrard and Carra. Unfortunately, we're nearing the tail end of even Gerrard's career.

 

Without a Billionaire, the best we can do is what we are doing now, buying young and selling high. At least we are in the "mid" tear of top clubs, where we buy from other "lower" top clubs such as Ajax, Porto etc and selling to "higher" top clubs like Real, Barca, and unfortunately City and Chelsea (and perhaps PSG). Money talks.

 

However, these clubs all play fantasy football, and will have to sell cheap those who don't fit. But just because they don't fit doesn't mean they aren't class.

 

So we buy young, sell high, and try to get world class hand me downs. That is the way to sustainability until we can afford similar wages as those clubs.

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