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There was a ref on the radio the other day, talking about how he'd 'help' the refs.... calling them up after a game to 'encourage' them after a bad game etc.

 

He (the ref) then went on to say that he'd asked Fergie to come along to referee training and offer his advice and experience if he REALLY wanted to help refs (but surprise surprise, he never took up the offer).

 

But all the same, it cannot be right that ANY manager is calling a referee for personal chats etc.

 

This same (retired) ref, then went onto to say that he knew of a current ref who was just starting out, and he was due to ref at Old Trafford. The young ref joked 'I could do with an early goal for United, and a 3-1 win for them' - meaning that would be the best scenario to avoid any hassle from Ferguson, but the retired ref said he still felt concerned that a ref could even joke about something like that, and that such 'thoughts' weren't healthy.

 

What the hell do OTHER refs think in private it makes you wonder?

 

No matter how 'nice' a guy someone might be whilst calling a ref for a private chat, it's just open to all sorts of misinterpretation. It doesn't feel right at all... not one little bit.

 

And how long has Moyes suspected he might be in line for the United job? is it a genuine surprise to him? (didn't seem to be a surprise to the media for the last 5 years or so), so what if he had a whisper he was in with a shout?

 

I know Everton caused a huge dent in United's campaign last season, but still, that's not the point... it's the principle... has he been 'groomed / earmarked' for the United job over a period of time? and has that influenced transfer dealings or other matters?

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Good poster you fanchester. Never got why you came here first but I enjoy reading most of them. Very honest guy, fair play to you.

 

Negged though for having a rich team.

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I don't think Everton and Man U operate at the same levels when it comes to transfers. Other than Everton selling a top player to the mancs and buying their outcasts, that is.

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It's a loss for the league and we will probably never see another manager like him, my whole life watching football he has been managing them.

 

I've never hated him as some have and felt he has always shown Liverpool respect and recognised us as a big club while others tried to put us down.

 

As I say my whole time watching football he has been there manager and part of the dream of Liverpool winning the title was us being able to get one over on him, this will not happen now and this is why I'm kind of sad about him retireing, we never managed to get the league and stop him overtaking our record.

 

I take that as an attempt at irony.

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I admire your level headedness but I find it a bit perplexing that as a City fan you still do not consider yourself part of the Big league. And that after quite a few years and tons of cash. I believe you guys would have done a lot better with another manager (Mourinho, Pelligrini... even Rafa). I wonder if there is such a recognition among the majority of the fans over there.

 

Depends... if you're a young City fan, then yes, you're easily suckered into "we're big time now"... but I think older City fans are a bit more cynical / pessimistic.

 

We're talking about clubs that have won multiple European titles, played in Europe for 50 years and would appear in anybody's list if you said "name me 10 clubs from 5 countries".

City are a long way from that level.

 

That's not to say we're small... we've had a seriously shit 30 years, but still in the top 10 supported English clubs of all time, so it's hardly Accrington Stanley material either. But all in all, we've a long way to go before having the stature of those mighty clubs.

 

It can be gained... all those clubs gained it!... and it can be lost too... but it takes a long time either way. We've only been in CL twice!... absolute novices.

 

We'd be kidding ourselves not to acknowledge the lack of experience as an entire club, not just on the pitch.

Liverpool stumbled across Shankly. It changed everything.

United stumbled across Busby (former City player). It changed everything.

Most other clubs just stumbled.

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I admire your level headedness but I find it a bit perplexing that as a City fan you still do not consider yourself part of the Big league. And that after quite a few years and tons of cash. I believe you guys would have done a lot better with another manager (Mourinho, Pelligrini... even Rafa). I wonder if there is such a recognition among the majority of the fans over there.

the big league..

there's us and the dung.. only a couple of trophies difference between us...

then arsenal, a good way behind.. after that, all the rest ... this isn't about the "premiership" years but about football history...

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Guest davelfc

But there are genuine and legitimate concerns about the appointment of Moyes. True, Moyes has kept Everton comfortably in the top flight for a decade, and has even earned European qualification four times.

 

But all four of those European campaigns came to ignominious ends, particularly the disastrous appearance in the Champions League qualifying rounds in 2005. Everton were unlucky to draw Villarreal, but the way they capitulated to the Spaniards was horrifying to fans.

 

And indeed Everton's consistency in the league has generally come at the expense of any notable cup runs. The Toffees have made only one Wembley final in the Moyes era - that was the 2009 FA Cup final, which they lost - with just two other semi-final spots.

 

Compare that to Alex Ferguson, who came to Manchester United in 1986 as the man who had made Aberdeen smash the Old Firm dominance in Scotland and masterminded a UEFA Cup Winners' Cup final victory over Real Madrid. In addition, Ferguson did not take over a strong and mighty Manchester United. Back in the mid-'80s, United were a mid-table club whose glory days were a generation behind them, and the Scot dragged them to the top of the game not just in Britain but also in Europe.

 

Moyes, meanwhile, has taken a club who had been surviving in the bottom half of the Premier League and helped them survive in the top half of the Premier League. Not bad, but not exactly groundshaking - and no more impressive than, say, the achievements of Tony Pulis at Stoke City.

 

Frankly, if Moyes had not been a straight-talking Glaswegian you could be forgiven for thinking he may never have had a hope of landing the Manchester United job. It's almost as though he's been brought in simply on the basis that he is the best-available Fergie-alike in the game today.

 

Why #MoyesOut is trending on Twitter – and why the trolls might be right | World of Sport - Yahoo! Eurosport UK

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But there are genuine and legitimate concerns about the appointment of Moyes. True, Moyes has kept Everton comfortably in the top flight for a decade, and has even earned European qualification four times.

 

But all four of those European campaigns came to ignominious ends, particularly the disastrous appearance in the Champions League qualifying rounds in 2005. Everton were unlucky to draw Villarreal, but the way they capitulated to the Spaniards was horrifying to fans.

 

And indeed Everton's consistency in the league has generally come at the expense of any notable cup runs. The Toffees have made only one Wembley final in the Moyes era - that was the 2009 FA Cup final, which they lost - with just two other semi-final spots.

 

Compare that to Alex Ferguson, who came to Manchester United in 1986 as the man who had made Aberdeen smash the Old Firm dominance in Scotland and masterminded a UEFA Cup Winners' Cup final victory over Real Madrid. In addition, Ferguson did not take over a strong and mighty Manchester United. Back in the mid-'80s, United were a mid-table club whose glory days were a generation behind them, and the Scot dragged them to the top of the game not just in Britain but also in Europe.

 

Moyes, meanwhile, has taken a club who had been surviving in the bottom half of the Premier League and helped them survive in the top half of the Premier League. Not bad, but not exactly groundshaking - and no more impressive than, say, the achievements of Tony Pulis at Stoke City.

 

Frankly, if Moyes had not been a straight-talking Glaswegian you could be forgiven for thinking he may never have had a hope of landing the Manchester United job. It's almost as though he's been brought in simply on the basis that he is the best-available Fergie-alike in the game today.

 

Why #MoyesOut is trending on Twitter – and why the trolls might be right | World of Sport - Yahoo! Eurosport UK

 

What are you suggesting Dave?.

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I'm just throwing it in the mix.

 

I see Moyes as a fairly innocuous appointment for them.A middle of the road manager who has been successful in keeping a club with little ambition in the Premiership without actually winning anything.The difference being that he has managed to quell expectation for over a decade when other clubs of a similar level would have binned him years ago,more often than not to the detriment of the club.Going to them will undoubtedly improve his win ratio as a Manager.The rest is pure speculation.Personally I am hoping for a slow,beautiful slide into underachievement.

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Thinking about it... if Moyes doesn't start off well, United will be in a tricky situation...

 

on the one hand, they've preached about stability and longevity, plus the merits of giving a manager time etc, but on the other hand, they'll not want to allow any dip in performance to take a hold.

 

It will be quite interesting to see how they react if things don't got well.

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when the rumours came out about the cunt retiring I was trying not to believe it to not get let down, if you'd have told me at the start of the week he'd be gone and Moyes would be scum manager I'd have asked for some of your happy pills!

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There was a ref on the radio the other day, talking about how he'd 'help' the refs.... calling them up after a game to 'encourage' them after a bad game etc.

 

He (the ref) then went on to say that he'd asked Fergie to come along to referee training and offer his advice and experience if he REALLY wanted to help refs (but surprise surprise, he never took up the offer).

 

But all the same, it cannot be right that ANY manager is calling a referee for personal chats etc.

 

This same (retired) ref, then went onto to say that he knew of a current ref who was just starting out, and he was due to ref at Old Trafford. The young ref joked 'I could do with an early goal for United, and a 3-1 win for them' - meaning that would be the best scenario to avoid any hassle from Ferguson, but the retired ref said he still felt concerned that a ref could even joke about something like that, and that such 'thoughts' weren't healthy.

 

What the hell do OTHER refs think in private it makes you wonder?

 

No matter how 'nice' a guy someone might be whilst calling a ref for a private chat, it's just open to all sorts of misinterpretation. It doesn't feel right at all... not one little bit.

 

And how long has Moyes suspected he might be in line for the United job? is it a genuine surprise to him? (didn't seem to be a surprise to the media for the last 5 years or so), so what if he had a whisper he was in with a shout?

 

I know Everton caused a huge dent in United's campaign last season, but still, that's not the point... it's the principle... has he been 'groomed / earmarked' for the United job over a period of time? and has that influenced transfer dealings or other matters?

 

Think that's a cracking post, most would treat it seriously if you hadn't gained that rep for being a bit 'unhinged' ;) .

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Thinking about it... if Moyes doesn't start off well, United will be in a tricky situation...

 

on the one hand, they've preached about stability and longevity, plus the merits of giving a manager time etc, but on the other hand, they'll not want to allow any dip in performance to take a hold.

 

It will be quite interesting to see how they react if things don't got well.

 

Be interesting to see what their first 5/6 games of season are.

 

If they get a tricky start, like we did, will we see the media being hyper critical on him or will they give him a bit a leeway?

 

The glazers haven't had to much to deal with since buying the club (apart from a few protest), they haven't had to deal with much "managing" of football matters. Yeah, I know David gill is the man for that, but they knew when they bought the club the manager was never going to be an issue. What happens if utd are 10 points behind the leaders after 15 games, could they panic and have doubts?

 

Going to be strange seeing another man in charge of them though, I'm 24 so i have only ever seen him as their manager.

 

Anyway, fuck them and lets hope they begin to crumble now he has left.

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Well it's certainly all much better than it's ever been in our history that's for sure, with players much better than we've ever had (including all the former greats). Definitely more credible than 2-3 years ago, but still upstarts in the grand scheme of things.

 

Tevez is probably the best player we've ever had (attitude aside). Watching him week in week out, he's just a class apart (stuff you don't see on MOTD).

 

The money helps, no doubt about it, but (say) a player like Lewandoski can pretty much name his club, and it wouldn't be us. Same for Ronaldo et al. For all the great players we do have, we still lack what United have... the work ethic and never say die attitude. They're not quite the bunch of lazy arses some claim, but it's not at the level it needs to be to actually be a GREAT team... and that's down to Mancini plus the lack of a Gerrard / Keane / Viera type player in midfield bossing the game (Toure's not in the same league as that lot at their peak).

 

We'll see what happens in the summer... it's going to be a very good summer for drama I think, with the managerial changes and rehauls.

 

I wouldn't put it past City to put a bid in for Suarez (having failed to get Cavani), but as good as he is, we need a more physical striker.

Dzeko to Liverpool maybe?

 

Lewandowski is just one player. Maybe he'll be shit at Real Madrid? What I'm saying is you'll have your own "Lewandowski". Somebody else will step up and become a great player with Man City because you have the resources to buy the best players and play in the best competitions every season. Why did David Silva choose Man City? Toure? I'm sure guys like that could take their pick, they're world class players.

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If we're talking about Moyes overachieving at a club - one that has been an ever-present in the top flight of English football - then by the same measure, Pulis has also overachieved -far more so, in comparison - in keeping a ragtag bunch of cloggers in the league on much less money. Notwithstanding their perilous position in recent matches, it seems that Stoke are also generally hovering mid-table through most seasons, unlike Wigan, who habitually find themselves in the relegation places most of the season.

 

This then serves to portray Martinez as an end of season 'miracle worker', but, the question must be asked, if he's such a great manager at the end of the season, why are they in the relegation danger zone in the first place?

 

The perception is that Martinez has his teams, Wigan - and previous to them, Swansea - playing 'proper attractive football'. It seems, though, that Wigan's 'fighting spirit/luck' may have run out this season. Bad luck or bad management?

 

Which of these managers is performing the better with the resources they have?

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It would be interesting to see if Moyes was the first and only choice. Was he 'earmarked' years ago by Ferguson? We probably won't know that. But Ferguson had that dinner not too long ago in Manchester with Moyes and Martinez. There was one other, but I can't remember. So maybe the anointed one was selected back then? It's just that he didn't seem too surprised in his statement that Ferguson handed him the job.

 

But it appeared to have come as a great shock to Kenwright when Moyes came to see him to tell him he was off to Utd. Or maybe he was acting for the cameras?

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Pulis has spent roughly 50M in the time that he's kept Stoke in the premier league. That's more than I expected him to have spent for what that club puts out on the pitch every week and they end up in the bottom half of the table every year. Something isn't quite right there.

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the big league..

there's us and the dung.. only a couple of trophies difference between us...

then arsenal, a good way behind.. after that, all the rest ... this isn't about

the "premiership" years but about football history...

 

Oh us and the Scum, of course, lead the big league. We should in fact be ahead of the Scum, by virtue of all our European crowns. Just wanted to point out to our friend that most fans of these nouveau riches clubs, unlike Fanchester, already regard themselves as part of the elite. They are delusional, specially those Chelski fans are.

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It would be interesting to see if Moyes was the first and only choice. Was he 'earmarked' years ago by Ferguson? We probably won't know that. But Ferguson had that dinner not too long ago in Manchester with Moyes and Martinez. There was one other, but I can't remember. So maybe the anointed one was selected back then? It's just that he didn't seem too surprised in his statement that Ferguson handed him the job.

 

But it appeared to have come as a great shock to Kenwright when Moyes came to see him to tell him he was off to Utd. Or maybe he was acting for the cameras?

 

Allegedly, Sven was in line for the job (think it was just before he got the England job).

 

But the media's had Moyes in the list of candidates for a good 5 years. Perhaps a simple process of deduction.... seemingly decent acquaintances, the Scottish connection, the longevity, the British aspect.... probably ticked a lot of boxes, with a few omissions from his CV, but very few negatives.

 

I find it a real struggle to imagine Moyes didn't have any notion of this... it's a hell of a bombshell if he didn't, and a huge risk for United to announce Ferguson's retirement, go after Moyes and he didn't accept. They knew he'd accept, I'm sure of it, and whilst Moyes probably didn't know the actual timing, I'm sure he knew it was likely to come his way. Almost as though Fergie had said "Bide your time at Everton son, bide your time...."

 

In the early days there was talk of Robson being the natural successor, but off the field issues with him scuppered that. Similar with Roy Keane I expect.... could start a fight in an empty room.

 

I expect we'll find out when United sell the rights to the movie and make another 100 million in the process.

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Thinking about it... if Moyes doesn't start off well, United will be in a tricky situation...

 

on the one hand, they've preached about stability and longevity, plus the merits of giving a manager time etc, but on the other hand, they'll not want to allow any dip in performance to take a hold.

 

It will be quite interesting to see how they react if things don't got well.

 

Would anyone be surprised if they played nobody from Liverpool up in the first half-dozen games? I fucking wouldn't.

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Why did Moyes let his contract run down at Everton, if he didn´t have another job in sight already ? I mean, Everton surely would have liked to keep such a miracle worker. Also, the timing of the Ferguson retirement suggests that they were just waiting for the season to practically end for Everton and Manure (Manu had already won the crown and Everton didn´t lose to Liverpool), to be able to make the announcements. I think it was planned a long time ago that Moyes would go there at the end of the season, even if Paddy Credand hadn´t heard about it.

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