Scottish Independence, yay or nay?

[mattyq]

I'm not sure how a Scotland in the EU would be any worse off than a Scotland tied to England.  Having an EU member on the British mainland would benefit not only Scotland but England.  Scotland would probably be a net beneficiary in Europe, and on more favourable terms that it currently receives from England.  Can you imagine the potential for new car factories to be opened up in the Borders region?  Maybe Hadrian's wall will be diverted to encapsulate Sunderland within Scotland.  

Scotland's a lot more integrated into the UK than the UK is in the EU 

It's going to damage us badly when we leave but England alone is bigger than 18 of the 26 EU countries so we'll be able to deal with it better,

85% of Scotland's trade is with the rest of the UK and it;s 9% of the size...it'll be raped for several generations

In the long run both Scotland the UK will recover and thrive, probably, bus as Keynes said, in the long run we're all dead

[clangers]

Yup, I agree with all of that.

I'd be very tempted if I lived in Scotland

Always, for me, the bottom line...I wouldn't want to see the value of my house, pension, wage etc fall dramatically 

Now with the UK exiting the EU all our Sterling assets have depreciated 20%,,,if Scotland left the UK thee'y fall a lot more than that

 

They need to be realistic about the economic impact of independence this time around. In reality with a £14.8 billion annual deficit or 9% plus oil revenue of £60 million last year it's going to be painful in the short to medium term. Against that is being tied to a potential disaster long term of being part of a rUK outside of the EU and being under the rule of Tories for years to come. The impact of Brexit negotiations are critical, the poorer the deal or no deal at all strengthens the SNP's position.

 

It looks like a choice between two very difficult, less than ideal options for Scotland. This ultimately will be an advantage for the SNP this time around as last time their position came under scrutiny as the vote for change against the status quo where as now both options will result in massive change.

 

If I had a vote I'd still be tempted to get out now whatever the immediate cost.

[Delmar]

I'm with Stringy here.

 

The Scots should do much better independent and in the EU.  A vote for independence would weaken the English position, as any businesses would prefer move up north (same language, similar culture) to moving to mainland Europe.  Scotland can, being independent, give same tax benefits to banks, and provide an option with less hassle.  

 

Logistics with Europe would be pretty much the same, e.g. car parts can be shipped to Aberdeen the same as to ports in England.   There are two big cities in Scotland, one already a great place to be in, one to be rebuilt.  To younger people these places are much preferable to post Brexit London, which is even now overpriced and will lose with Brexit much of the business to the mainland Europe.  Easier to move to Edinburgh or Glasgow than to Frankfurt, both for businesses and people.

 

Then the next logical step is that NI will join Ireland.  And May can have the rest when the likes of Tusk get seriously snotty.  

[Kevin D]

I voted for independence last time and I will vote for independence, again.

[Champ]

I'm with Stringy here.

 

The Scots should do much better independent and in the EU. A vote for independence would weaken the English position, as any businesses would prefer move up north (same language, similar culture) to moving to mainland Europe. Scotland can, being independent, give same tax benefits to banks, and provide an option with less hassle.

 

Logistics with Europe would be pretty much the same, e.g. car parts can be shipped to Aberdeen the same as to ports in England. There are two big cities in Scotland, one already a great place to be in, one to be rebuilt. To younger people these places are much preferable to post Brexit London, which is even now overpriced and will lose with Brexit much of the business to the mainland Europe. Easier to move to Edinburgh or Glasgow than to Frankfurt, both for businesses and people.

 

Then the next logical step is that NI will join Ireland. And May can have the rest when the likes of Tusk get seriously snotty.

As I said earlier, the EU were none too keen on having Scotland in the EU then; why would it be any different now?

 

It feels like a vote for shit or shit to me. Where are you now, Cameron, you great coward

[stringvest]

As I said earlier, the EU were none too keen on having Scotland in the EU then; why would it be any different now?

 

It feels like a vote for shit or shit to me. Where are you now, Cameron, you great coward

I must admit I don't recall the EU saying they weren't keen.

[Champ]

I must admit I don't recall the EU saying they weren't keen.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/scottish-independence-eu-bid-extremely-difficult-says-jose-manuel-barroso-9131925.html

[Alan Sex]

Available answers on the ballot...

 

1. Och Aye

2. Whit are ye like

3. A Dinnae Ken

[Mendoza]

[Section_31]

As I said earlier, the EU were none too keen on having Scotland in the EU then; why would it be any different now?

 

It feels like a vote for shit or shit to me. Where are you now, Cameron, you great coward

 

He's at home, washing his tights. 

[Delmar]

As I said earlier, the EU were none too keen on having Scotland in the EU then; why would it be any different now?

 

It feels like a vote for shit or shit to me. Where are you now, Cameron, you great coward

 

Look at it a bit different way then.

 

Post Brexit Scotland, not independent, has less options than today.  

 

Brexit UK will be more London based (May will do everything to keep the banks there), there will be shitloads of money to be paid to Brussels just for existing projects and programs, estimates 25-50 billion.  Money that has already been spent, loans to pay back.  And no EU money coming in necessarily.  No money going from London to Scotland, but to Brussels, as loans need to be paid back.  If Scotland were part of the EU, the money would at least partially move to Scotland's way.

 

The Scots could have an option of offering business opportunities and especially banking, on the same terms as London and rest of England today, with access to Europe easier than through Brexit UK.

 

Was the Brexit decided when the previous vote for independence was held?  I think not.  For EU Scotland would be a scoop.  And united Ireland would render England/Wales powerless.  

[Neil G]

As I said earlier, the EU were none too keen on having Scotland in the EU then; why would it be any different now?

In a word, Brexit. Scotland joining would be a huge vote of confidence in the EU, to counteract the knock it's taken from Brexit and the rise of anti-EU movements in other member states. They'd be welcomed with open arms.

[Evelyn Tentions]

Not only should Scotland be Independent but the border should be moved south to the Mersey. The fucking tories can have London and the south which are all they care about anyway.

[A Red]

Scotland's a lot more integrated into the UK than the UK is in the EU 

It's going to damage us badly when we leave but England alone is bigger than 18 of the 26 EU countries so we'll be able to deal with it better,

85% of Scotland's trade is with the rest of the UK and it;s 9% of the size...it'll be raped for several generations

In the long run both Scotland the UK will recover and thrive, probably, bus as Keynes said, in the long run we're all dead

I think you are mixing up geographical, economic and population size.

 

I see your point though.

[Section_31]

Not only should Scotland be Independent but the border should be moved south to the Mersey. The fucking tories can have London and the south which are all they care about anyway.

 

Amen. It's always felt like the North is another country. The Tories care as much for me and mine as the Germans did for the French. 

[Champ]

Not only should Scotland be Independent but the border should be moved south to the Mersey. The fucking tories can have London and the south which are all they care about anyway.

I'd vote for that

[lifetime fan]

Should have said yes the first time!

[stringvest]

Liverpool will be in the same boat as Scotland after brexit. No European funding to prop it up. So it would be nice to give Liverpool the opportunity to opt out of UK sovereignty

[Rick Sanchez C-137]

Liverpool will be in the same boat as Scotland after brexit. No European funding to prop it up. So it would be nice to give Liverpool the opportunity to opt out of UK sovereignty

[Dougie Do'ins]

Scotland would be fine if they went independent, you'd make gazillions from other countries wanting to base their military in your country to piss the English off. 

I posted something similar to that a while ago. Putin will be all over the Jocks with offers of cheap gas in exchange for permission to park his naval ships in their ports.

 

 

Liverpool will be in the same boat as Scotland after brexit. No European funding to prop it up. So it would be nice to give Liverpool the opportunity to opt out of UK sovereignty

I think that's a little OTT mate. Has EU money for Liverpool not dried up anyway ? 

[Guest Pistonbroke]

I posted something similar to that a while ago. Putin will be all over the Jocks with offers of cheap gas in exchange for permission to park his naval ships in their ports.

 

 

 

It would end up as a bidding war between the Yanks, Russians and English. 

[Dougie Do'ins]

It would end up as a bidding war between the Yanks, Russians and English. 

I'm not sure what the yanks or us could offer them. The jocks would probably sell the gas on to us with a nice little mark up.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

I'm not sure what the yanks or us could offer them. The jocks would probably sell the gas on to us with a nice little mark up.

 

Money/trade deals, at the expense of the US/English tax payer and the poor becoming desperate or homeless. Let's be honest, those stuffed shirt wealthy Tory cunts don't give a shit about Scotland apart from the obvious. 

[Champ]

I was out with a group of friends earlier. We were chatting away but at some point someone was going to have to mention the elephant in the room. Last time round 2 of them had been massive independence supporters but to a woman the response was a coĺlective groan of anguish and 'not again, please.' It feels as if people/friends/families had just about been reconciled to the outcome of the last vote and had been able to heal those relationships only to be forced to revisit those old wounds again and it's only just begun

[Furmedge]

 

 

I think that's a little OTT mate. Has EU money for Liverpool not dried up anyway ?

There's still a shit load of European money being pumped into Liverpool. Education wise a lot of qualifications are benefited from the European Social Fund (I'm a former tutor and had to have the ESF funding sign on show at every lesson up until I left 12 months ago) and I think that makeover of the offices that was formerly The Golf Bar on Tithebarn Street was funded with European investment too.