Scottish Independence, yay or nay?

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

Down?  Where are you at the mo?  Are you Father Christmas?

Sorry. Up. I was standing on my head when I wrote that.

[Jairzinho]

Nick Robinson

 

On the morning after the poll before, "Vote No and get something better" summed up George Osborne's message. It's a tried and trusted message which worked in the independence referendum in Quebec when a last minute poll lead for Yes was transformed into a narrow No. It is, though, a message with a difficult history in Scotland.

 

Thirty five years ago it was precisely what Scots were told when they were voting in a referendum on a much more modest proposal - to create a Scottish Parliament with some devolved powers. What they got soon afterwards was 18 years of Margaret Thatcher's government and no devolution at all (until, that is, Labour were re-elected in 1997).

 

That is just one reason why Osborne's promise of a plan to transfer new powers to Holyrood - covering tax raising, spending and benefits - caused such confusion yesterday. It is why Alex Salmond felt able to attack it as a sign of "panic" on the No side.

 

The other reason is that the three rival Westminster parties - the Conservatives, Labour and Liberal Democrats - have not agreed a plan for which precise powers to devolve. Each party has published its own set of proposals which overlap in the areas Osborne listed.

[Champ]

Yeah. Good money but crazy money if you get what I mean.

Oh, I know but you couldn't pay me enough to live that far north and that was before I remembered about the reduced daylight in the winter

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

Oh, I know but you couldn't pay me enough to live that far north and that was before I remembered about the reduced daylight in the winter

Lovely in the summer but what about the other 50 weeks.

[stringvest]

And its Aberdeen

 

Look!  It's Granite City vs Granola City smackdown!

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

Look!  It's Granite City vs Granola City smackdown!

Until I started reading this thread I thought a Saltire was a cracker

[mgw100]

If they vote no they will get further devolution of powers. Will you get everything you want? No. Will you be better off than if you go it alone? That's the question.

Will they? The Devo Max option wasn't permitted on the ballot paper. It's only recently, with them running scared that it appears it may be formalised.

 

There's something really wrong about a government with virtually no representation in a major part of the state. It's wrong on many levels, but it doesn't augur well for that part of the state and it's interests being represented. That will be the case whether there is further devolution or not.

[Sugar Ape]

Will they? The Devo Max option wasn't permitted on the ballot paper. It's only recently, with them running scared that it appears it may be formalised.

 

There's something really wrong about a government with virtually no representation in a major part of the state. It's wrong on many levels, but it doesn't augur well for that part of the state and it's interests being represented. That will be the case whether there is further devolution or not.

I'm not saying you will get Devo Max. You'll probably get something in between what you have now and Devo Max.

 

They're clearly offering that because they're panicking. That doesn't mean it's not better accepting further devolution and remaining in the union than going it on your own with all the uncertainly that will entail.

[Moctezuma]

If I was living in a conurbation in the north of England I'd be shitting myself about the graphic below, if you think Thatcher’s use of Scotland as a guinea pig in the past was bad then I reckon this current incarnation of the Neo-liberal dream will be salivating over the prospect of teaching those pesky Labour voters a lesson.

 

 

 

I'm looking forward to the prospect of the entire system down here becoming some glorified right-wing America where you have to individually pay for your healthcare, schooling and other public services but privatised policing and the armed forces seem to mysteriously retain sizeable chunks of the public purse.

 

 

 

[Section_31]

Probably why the Tories haven't been arsed trying to fight the yes campaign and why the most vocal voices in the no campaign are Labour or ex Labour.

[Spy Bee]

If the Yes vote wins and it goes ahead the UK voting public will respond accordingly. It's not like they are going to be waiting long for a general election.

[Section_31]

If the Yes vote wins and it goes ahead the UK voting public will respond accordingly. It's not like they are going to be waiting long for a general election.

They're on about postponing it until 2016 aren't they if it's a yes vote?

[Section_31]

Wonder what the yes vote count will be in Miami Dade?

[stringvest]

Any argument against a "yes" vote is essentially trivial when compared with the prize. Controlling your own destiny trumps anything. Fuck the pound as well. Scotland needs none of it.

[Jairzinho]

Any argument against a "yes" vote is essentially trivial when compared with the prize. Controlling your own destiny trumps anything. Fuck the pound as well. Scotland needs none of it.

 

Yep. Hope over fear. Fuck Mark Carney. The fucking cunt.

[jonnybastard]

I keep hearing this word 'negotiate'. Negotiate what exactly? My idea of negotiation means both parties bringing something to the table, and as the Scots have made it clear that they don't want to share the oil, what do they have to negotiate with? Is it independence they want or a divorce? Because there's a fucking big difference. Independence means they keep the oil and fuck off and do their own thing. Divorce means they get that, plus the house, the car, a lump sum, maintenance payments and the bank accounts; and we get to keep the debts and pay the legal bills. The more I think about this, the more I suspect we're going to get bum fucked so hard we'll be picking ginger pubes from our arse for a long time to come.

[Bobby Hundreds]

If it ends up being a case of an almost permanent Tory government I'm joining a resistance.

 

To be honest this country is so bone idle we would let the Tories arse to mouth us as long as we don't have to get off the settee.

[Nunavut Patrick]

Yep. Hope over fear. Fuck Mark Carney. The fucking cunt.

Easy now, don't drag Canada into this.

 

His wife is a grade A twat.

[Spy Bee]

They're on about postponing it until 2016 aren't they if it's a yes vote?

I don't know, but in relative terms even 5 years wouldn't be a long time. For a long time people have been voting based on what the media tell them to vote, and also voting for a status quo. Voting to ensure things don't change much because things could always be worse. I would love to think that a Yes vote is a vote for change, for hope and a positive change in our democracy. That is until UKIP get in like.

[Nunavut Patrick]

I keep hearing this word 'negotiate'. Negotiate what exactly? My idea of negotiation means both parties bringing something to the table, and as the Scots have made it clear that they don't want to share the oil, what do they have to negotiate with? Is it independence they want or a divorce? Because there's a fucking big difference. Independence means they keep the oil and fuck off and do their own thing. Divorce means they get that, plus the house, the car, a lump sum, maintenance payments and the bank accounts; and we get to keep the debts and pay the legal bills. The more I think about this, the more I suspect we're going to get bum fucked so hard we'll be picking ginger pubes from our arse for a long time to come.

They'll want some of the 310 tonnes of bullion (not Bovril, gold). But I would imagine England would want some of the debt shifted over, to which Scotland could say give us back some of that oil money that Thatcher snatched.

 

I also reckon there will be a lot of Catalans, Basques, those Brittany French that want their own country, Corsica, Laplanders, Greenlanders, Flanders, Ned Sanders, etc.

[Fugitive]

If Scotland leave, can we give them Wales as a going away present?

 

Kill two birds with one stone.

[Anubis]

If Scotland gets independence I'd like to think that in 10 years time it'll be walled off and populated by small roving bands of Mad Max-like cannibals, like in the film Doomsday.

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

If Scotland gets independence I'd like to think that in 10 years time it'll be walled off and populated by small roving bands of Mad Max-like cannibals, like in the film Doomsday.

Jimmy Krankie will end up like the kid from Mad Max 2. 

[mattyq]

If Scotland gets independence I'd like to think that in 10 years time it'll be walled off and populated by small roving bands of Mad Max-like cannibals, like in the film Doomsday.

I thought it was already like that...

I don't get this currency thing at all

It's what you're paid in, what you spend, what your mortgage is in and pension...pretty big stuff

I'd be terrified,,, any fuckups and you've just lost 30% of your pension, your house has lost value etc

[jonnybastard]

They'll want some of the 310 tonnes of bullion (not Bovril, gold). But I would imagine England would want some of the debt shifted over, to which Scotland could say give us back some of that oil money that Thatcher snatched.

 

 

[/e]

 

They can want all they like, but this no mutual consent situation. If they want to leave a 300 year old union they should leave with the clothes on their back and nothing more.

 

And is really independence they want? How do we know they've not been up to their old shit stirring tricks again? Sneaking off behind our back and sucking the garlic flavoured cock of their old fuck buddy France, then whispering in their ear "Ken that englind? They cunts hate you by the way. Telt the scheme theys gonna gi yous a tannin"