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Scottish Independence, yay or nay?

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43 minutes ago, Captain Howdy said:

To be honest If I was Scottish I’m sure I’d want independence and I genuinely wish  them well, I’m just sick to fucking death of hearing about it. I mean what’s the point of a referendum if you keep asking for another one untill you get the decision you want? There’s no chance for stability or long term planning. I think it needs to happen, just get the fuck on with it.

Yeah that's where I'm at with it. If the North West was to go it alone we'd probably be fucked but you get to the point where the whole gig is nosediving and you might as well spin the wheel. 

 

That being said, these "once in a generation" votes are coming along too often and it seems cynical to just keep asking the question until you get the answer you want. Between votes there'll he increased activism designed no doubt to wear dissenting voters down.

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I think it's fair to ask the question again considering the UK voted to leave the EU a year after the last vote. Especially as two thirds of Scotland voted to remain.

 

"Hi guys, wanna stay in my team?"

 

"Er, I guess"

 

"Sweet, going to chop all our legs off now"

 

"Hang on a sec..."

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3 hours ago, Section_31 said:

The defence stuff is interesting, presumably Scotland would still want and need to be part of Nato and the yanks used to have bases all over the shop, dunno if they still do, but there was an intelligence base at Stornoway I think for monitoring Soviet subs passing between Scotland and Iceland.

 

The angst over navy subs being based up there is probably more about propagating the idea that England treats it as a nuclear dumping ground, rather than the fact its coasts lend themselves to naval shenanigans. 

 

Besides which you'd assume shipbuilding and the likes have sustained many a Scottish job over the years, as has the military for that matter.

They released some shit a good few years ago and they wanted all Nukes and Military operations out of their country and then they’ll take over the bases. They want to join NATO and the plan is to ‘inherit’ military hardware from the UK. 
 

 

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25 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

I think it's fair to ask the question again considering the UK voted to leave the EU a year after the last vote. Especially as two thirds of Scotland voted to remain.

 

"Hi guys, wanna stay in my team?"

 

"Er, I guess"

 

"Sweet, going to chop all our legs off now"

 

"Hang on a sec..."

Yeah it would have been interesting if the two referendums were the opposite way round. 

 

One of the pro union arguments was that if Scotland became independent they wouldn't be able to remain in the EU. That worked out well for them!

 

My Mrs is a Scot and their family are very divided over it. 

 

The Scots have had two referendums and three elections since 2014. I don't understand how they aren't just sick to the back teeth of the whole thing? 

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1 minute ago, MegadriveMan said:

Yeah it would have been interesting if the two referendums were the opposite way round. 

 

One of the pro union arguments was that if Scotland became independent they wouldn't be able to remain in the EU. That worked out well for them!

 

My Mrs is a Scot and their family are very divided over it. 

 

The Scots have had two referendums and three elections since 2014. I don't understand how they aren't just sick to the back teeth of the whole thing? 

Yeah, it must be difficult. 

 

Part of me wants them to stay as without them it'll be decades of Tory rule. However, if people in England continue to vote for a very, very right wing party, and voted to make their lives much worse by leaving Europe, how fair is to stick the consequences on Scotland which doesn't vote Tory and didn't vote to leave the EU. It's a fucking huge gamble obviously. If I were Scottish, I would probably roll the dice. 

 

Also, selfishly, it would be nice to have somewhere in the UK to visit (or live briefly) that wasn't run by sociopathic plutocrats. 

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12 minutes ago, MegadriveMan said:

Yeah it would have been interesting if the two referendums were the opposite way round. 

 

One of the pro union arguments was that if Scotland became independent they wouldn't be able to remain in the EU. That worked out well for them!

 

My Mrs is a Scot and their family are very divided over it. 

 

The Scots have had two referendums and three elections since 2014. I don't understand how they aren't just sick to the back teeth of the whole thing? 

Some of us are.

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1 hour ago, Section_31 said:

That being said, these "once in a generation" votes are coming along too often and it seems cynical to just keep asking the question until you get the answer you want. Between votes there'll he increased activism designed no doubt to wear dissenting voters down.

My gut feeling is that is that the SNP have used independence to grow their party and vote share, but in reality they would struggle with the consequences that it would actually bring.

 

It was the same with the EU membership though. If Remain had won 52% to 48% Farage and the like would still be pushing for a second referendum at the earliest opportunity. 

 

Referendums are just bad ideas. They divide families, they waste money and spread lies and misinformation. Simply asking a yes, no question to the general public over a complex set of ideas and systems that the majority won't fully understand is madness! 

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22 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

Yeah, it must be difficult. 

 

Part of me wants them to stay as without them it'll be decades of Tory rule. However, if people in England continue to vote for a very, very right wing party, and voted to make their lives much worse by leaving Europe, how fair is to stick the consequences on Scotland which doesn't vote Tory and didn't vote to leave the EU. It's a fucking huge gamble obviously. If I were Scottish, I would probably roll the dice. 

 

Also, selfishly, it would be nice to have somewhere in the UK to visit (or live briefly) that wasn't run by sociopathic plutocrats. 

 

I think that's the key, Scottish voters pre SNP would have predominantly been Labour I imagine, they're not going to get a labour UK government so the straight choice is between Johnson’s crowd and trying something else. Which is fair enough.

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2 hours ago, Captain Howdy said:

To be honest If I was Scottish I’m sure I’d want independence and I genuinely wish  them well, I’m just sick to fucking death of hearing about it. I mean what’s the point of a referendum if you keep asking for another one untill you get the decision you want? There’s no chance for stability or long term planning. I think it needs to happen, just get the fuck on with it.

It's hardly as if they've had multiple votes on the matter. Granted, it's in the news a lot but I think after the 2014 vote, those that voted to leave the union begrudgingly accepted they'd lost and had to move on. (I'm sure our native Scots will correct me if I'm wrong.)

 

I wish them well too and I do think they deserve another vote. In the grand scheme of things, not much time had passed since the Scottish indy vote when there was a seismic change in the UK's relationship with the rest of Europe.

 

Maybe someone should have had the foresight ask for the right to a second vote should the UK vote to leave the UK. 

 

  

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I saw some banter on twitter about the "British army" being in Scotland with the vaccines, like they were an occupation force.

 

Must be heartbreaking for any ex forces Scots that, their regiments are among some of the very proudest and best in military history.

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4 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

I saw some banter on twitter about the "British army" being in Scotland with the vaccines, like they were an occupation force.

 

Must be heartbreaking for any ex forces Scots that, their regiments are among some of the very proudest and best in military history.

 

Okay, that explains this Early Day Motion I saw the other day, which I thought seemed a bit random. But if they've been getting grief off separatists for saving people's lives...

 

https://edm.parliament.uk/early-day-motion/57984

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19 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

I saw some banter on twitter about the "British army" being in Scotland with the vaccines, like they were an occupation force.

 

Must be heartbreaking for any ex forces Scots that, their regiments are among some of the very proudest and best in military history.

Anybody heartbroken by that is just pandering to these fannys.

 

Scottish independence is much the same as Brexit in that it's provided a cause for thousands of complete & utter morons (on both sides). Look at that Tweet in Sugar Ape's post for example, it's not even written correctly.

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This made me chuckle though, what a time to be alive.

 

the revolutionary grassroots campaign of marches and rallies across Scotland for independence. During Covid: regular zoom meets and static-rallies.

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Couldnt give a fuck really.

 

My stance is, if a majority of people in Scotland want independence, let them have it and forge their own destiny. Same for Wales and Northern Ireland although Im not sure the economies of either would enable either to maintain livings standards, health care etc for their populations as idependent nations. In Northern Ireland's case, unification with the Republic would probably be the most likely outcome.

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3 hours ago, Section_31 said:

This made me chuckle though, what a time to be alive.

 

the revolutionary grassroots campaign of marches and rallies across Scotland for independence. During Covid: regular zoom meets and static-rallies.

At least the Irish actually tried 

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6 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

At least the Irish actually tried 

Only a hundred odd years, centuries of violence, a Worldwide pandemic & the fact that the majority of Scots don't want independence separating the two issues.

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