Scottish Independence, yay or nay?

[Strontium]

19 hours ago, Mook said:

Here's a question for you, if Scotland is such a drain on the UK, why are the tories & Labour so desperate to keep hold of it?

 

The missus is a drain on my finances, but I'm quite keen on keeping hold of her.

[Section_31]

My uncle is into genealogy and traced us back to Clan Hannay, and apparently our family was kicked out of Scotland for "doing something unspeakable" to the Murrays. So they ended up in Appalachia making moonshine. Tremendous.

[Anubis]

10 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

My uncle is into genealogy and traced us back to Clan Hannay, and apparently our family was kicked out of Scotland for "doing something unspeakable" to the Murrays. So they ended up in Appalachia making moonshine. Tremendous.

Sounds like you’re just a bunch of marauding crooks.

http://staff.washington.edu/jhannah/HannahBook/Ch01 AncientHistory.pdf

 

Quote

The Feus With the Murrays

One of the more interesting stories of the Hannays of Sorbie is the manner in which they went into decline in the latter part of the 1500s and early 1600s. The history of the feud with the Murrays of Broughton, as well as with other families, is well described in the book The Hannays ofSorbieby Stewart Francis. Even Stewart Francis, who obviously researched the events thoroughly, can't say what the feud was about; but it went on for years and eventually cost the Hannays of Sorbie all of their extensiveproperties.

 

Byabout1640SorbieTowerwasownedbyothers. Oneexample of the feud is taken from the above book by Francis, and illustrates the sort of actions the feud provoked.

In 1602 George Murray brought charges in front of the Privy Council against a group of Hannays as follows: (paraphrased)

~ o h nHannay apparent of Sorbie, ~ o b e ritn Boghous, Andrew and Archibald Hannay (others were named) and it being Sunday appointed for devine service came armed with hagbuts and pistolets for the slaughter of said Murray of Broughton. When

 A ~ a n n a hFamily of West Virginia
Murray was approaching the parish Church of Whithorn the Hannays chased Murray back to his house where they besieged his house and attacked him and his company with pistolets and hagbuts for their slaughter.

Murray survived to bring charges! Incident after incident of the Murray/Hannay feud is described in Stewart Francis' book and in many cases it cost the Hannay family largesumsofmoneyandlossofproperty.
 

By1640,whenJohnHannaywasreportedto have been killed in a quarrel, Sorbie had passed into the hands of the Earls of Galloway. Thus the Sorbie Hannay's downfall

 

[Megadrive Man]

20 hours ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

I think the Tories and to a lesser extent Labour believe in the idea of the British Union. This is why they are hanging on to Northern Ireland as well. 

 

If Scotland became independent, the Tories would be in power for decades. They could end up holding two thirds of the seats at the next election.

 

I understand why Labour are terrified of them leaving, but the Torries should be actively encouraging them to go. 

 

if the Tories were such proud unionists, they wouldn't have negotiated the Brexit deal in the way that they did.

[Section_31]

Class, one of my best mates is called Murray yet now I feel compelled to kill him.

[Anubis]

9 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Class, one of my best mates is called Murray yet now I feel compelled to kill him.

 

 

Remember to wear the proper attire.

 

[Ranxerox]

I suspect a few on here could make a decent punchline out of "Highlander with two pistols"

 

[mattyq]

3 hours ago, Champ said:

It was a serious question

Finance £15 billion

Engineering £6 bill

Business Services £15 bill

Aerospace £4 bill

Lifesciences £2.4 bill

Oil & Gas £9 bill

Creative Industries £4.4bill

Tourism £3.9 bill

Chemicals £1.4 bill

Textiles £0.4 bill

 

[Chairman Meow]

1 hour ago, Section_31 said:

My uncle is into genealogy and traced us back to Clan Hannay, and apparently our family was kicked out of Scotland for "doing something unspeakable" to the Murrays. So they ended up in Appalachia making moonshine. Tremendous.

That certainly explains your interest in all things Mafia.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apalachin_meeting

 

 

 

 

[mattyq]

I'd echo what mgw100 said. Long term an indy Scotland would be fine, short to medium term they'd be fucked

I'd worry about the currency, my pension and mortgage and all the upheaval, bitterness and instability independence would bring. I'd also worry about the lack of transparency in the SNP and the talent after Sturgeon. Also, the brain drain going South which would be inevitable certainly initially

[Champ]

35 minutes ago, mattyq said:

Finance £15 billion

Engineering £6 bill

Business Services £15 bill

Aerospace £4 bill

Lifesciences £2.4 bill

Oil & Gas £9 bill

Creative Industries £4.4bill

Tourism £3.9 bill

Chemicals £1.4 bill

Textiles £0.4 bill

 

That may be the case now but how much of the finance and services sector would remain. And as I said before, oil and gas revenues will only recede and rightly so

[Section_31]

I think Scotland would do just fine economically, plenty of other countries with small populations do, but sacrifices would have to be made. I don't see how a country that size could fund both an NHS and a free university system.

[Strontium]

1 hour ago, Section_31 said:

My uncle is into genealogy and traced us back to Clan Hannay, and apparently our family was kicked out of Scotland for "doing something unspeakable" to the Murrays. So they ended up in Appalachia making moonshine. Tremendous.

 

My mum worked with a Campbell and a MacDonald, and they apparently wouldn't have anything to do with each other because of the Glencoe Massacre.

[mattyq]

34 minutes ago, Champ said:

That may be the case now but how much of the finance and services sector would remain. And as I said before, oil and gas revenues will only recede and rightly so

A lot of it would change mainly for the worse and Government spending on health, social services etc would fall sharply

Ironically, a lot of the young graduates who are so keen on Indy would be the first on the train down South chasing the income

But after re-joining the EU in 10 - 15 years there'd be plenty of scope to start re-building and EU capital inflows would help a lot.

A choice would need to be made as to whether they'd like to be like Ireland with very low Company taxation or like Scando with high taxes/high services 

[A Red]

13 hours ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

My point was that of the three nationalist groups; the Scots, the welsh and the irish, only the latter have killed innocent people to advance their cause. The other 2 have relied on democracy and made no progress.  

I dont think you have got this right, in fact the reverse is probably true.

 

Scotland is closer now than ever to independence due to Sturgeon trying to win people over with SNP arguments as to how Scotland would prosper. When the IRA and others were trying to bomb their way to their goals no way was the Unionist majority or UK government going to give in to them. Now, with the ceasefire, power sharing and the human rights, Sinn Fein could well end up as the largest party in Northern Ireland (Edwin Poot, i'm looking at you). 

 

This, I believe, is where Scotland and Northern Ireland become similar, both having parties in power that want to break away but with an electorate that doesnt want it to happen, they just want a party that they believe cares about them - Sinn Fein/DUP or SNP. (There have been polls that suggest most Roman Catholics would vote to stay in the UK)

 

The welsh I think are a bit more level headed about their prospects away from the union.

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Johnson and his shower of incompetent fuckwits winning hearts and minds to the unionist cause...

 

"Cop26: Leaks suggest No 10 advisers' plot to sideline Sturgeon - Glasgow Live" https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/cop26-leaks-suggest-no-10-21486267.amp

 

[Section_31]

Braveheart statue that's been unveiled at the ground of Brechin FC.

[Bjornebye]

8 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Braveheart statue that's been unveiled at the ground of Brechin FC.

"I'm Brechin ma baws here" 

[Anubis]

1 hour ago, Section_31 said:

Braveheart statue that's been unveiled at the ground of Brechin FC.

 

They’ve just moved it from by the Wallace Monument where it originally was. It’s been posted on here before. I’ve had the dubious pleasure of seeing it in real life. It’s unintentionally hilarious.

[Captain Howdy]

Les Dennis has aged 

[Mook]

There's a great Wallace monument in the Borders, 31ft tall & hidden away on a hill...

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_William_Wallace,_Bemersyde

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

13 minutes ago, Mook said:

There's a great Wallace monument in the Borders, 31ft tall & hidden away on a hill...

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_William_Wallace,_Bemersyde

 

 

It's a damn sight better than that statue of Hugh Dennis in drag stepping on a plug.

[Section_31]

Sturgeon mooting October next year for the next referendum.

[Creator Supreme]

2 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Sturgeon mooting October next year for the next referendum.

I still think it will be no but only just.

[Section_31]

Just now, Creator Supreme said:

I still think it will be no but only just.

They'd be mental to not try it, if the North West voted to up sticks I'd be out campaigning.