Scottish Independence, yay or nay?

[Mudface]

6 minutes ago, Mook said:

I'm no Scottish Nationalist but I have to laugh at English people saying we'd be bankrupt when the current UK national debt is over two thousand billion.

 

The stuff about the army and the navy is equally laughable, oh no we wouldn't have a load of fucking neds to protect us against... erm... all those countries who want to attack Scotland all the time.

 

It's not going to happen anyway so no need to get out your prams some of you.

I think the country would do fine on its own, especially if it got back into the EU, it's certainly better placed than other small countries would appear to be. The currency would be a big problem though and I don't think it's ever been satisfactorily covered by the SNP. I'd be happy to go independent to get away from the Tories and the increasingly brutish nature of England, but very few of my friends up here want it and most are quite vehemently against it.

 

Funny though, if Scotland is such a drag on the UK economy then you'd think the current gang of Tories would be happy to see it go.

[mgw100]

As another Scottish resident, I am also sure that it would prosper in the medium to long term. However, I reckon the short term would be bumpy and so I don't much fancy it for that reason.

 

I am English so the benefit of being Tory free is neutralised somewhat by sadness at the impact to the rest of the UK political landscape.

 

If I was Scottish, my priorities might be different.

 

 

[Mook]

18 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

Here are the facts. Scotland spends 9.2% of UK public spending (despite having only 8% of the population) and only contributes 8% of total tax so would have to implement massive spending cuts to support its own currency. The nationalists never answer the question as to what the currency would be and how they would fund the deficit. The £ has increased in value despite the deficit because the money markets believe in the future of the UK economy. 

Scotland: Public spending and revenue - House of Commons Library (parliament.uk)

Here's a question for you, if Scotland is such a drain on the UK, why are the tories & Labour so desperate to keep hold of it?

 

I agree on the currency by the way & Salmond's inability to answer that question in 2014 was the main reason I abstained.

[Mook]

3 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

I think the Tories and to a lesser extent Labour believe in the idea of the British Union. This is why they are hanging on to Northern Ireland as well. 

The tories, known throughout the land for their philanthropy & love of the Scots.

[Mook]

*sniggers

 

 

[mgw100]

Is the Colonel actually arguing with himself above? Take it to PM mate

[Champ]

3 hours ago, mgw100 said:

As another Scottish resident, I am also sure that it would prosper in the medium to long term. However, I reckon the short term would be bumpy and so I don't much fancy it for that reason.

 

I am English so the benefit of being Tory free is neutralised somewhat by sadness at the impact to the rest of the UK political landscape.

 

If I was Scottish, my priorities might be different.

 

 

Am I being dim but where will Scotland derive its income from now that oil is literally dead in the water? The climate landscape feels entirely different in just the short time since the last referendum 

[Bobby Hundreds]

I want them to do it just to see the flag shaggers reactions in this country but then the tories would just create some utter bullshit nationalist flag that wouod probably look like japan's but of Winston Churchills arsehole. 

[mattyq]

24 minutes ago, Champ said:

Am I being dim but where will Scotland derive its income from now that oil is literally dead in the water? The climate landscape feels entirely different in just the short time since the last referendum 

Tourism

Whisky

Finance

Engineering

Heroin

[Ranxerox]

4 hours ago, Mook said:

 

I agree on the currency by the way & Salmond's inability to answer that question in 2014 was the main reason I abstained.

The currency question is the without a doubt the biggest obstacle. I saw one poll where only 18% of Scots would accept adoption of the Euro. I've come across a number of articles and analysis about potential EU membership and the consensus is that Scotland would be admitted after a period of 3-8 years following independence, almost all however placed a high importance on Scotland adopting the Euro. 

 

Fear of what would happen with currency has always been a major stumbling block for the Quebec independence advocates here. After all most us can get pretty damn sensitive about our stash.  

 

I don't think independence will happen, but with Johnson in charge there is always the possibility of him mucking it up. 

[Bjornebye]

50 minutes ago, mattyq said:

Tourism

Whisky

Finance

Engineering

Heroin

 

Irn Bru 

[Champ]

Who gets the royal family?

[VladimirIlyich]

15 hours ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

There is a good PhD to be written comparing the tactics and successes of the different European nationalist groups. The Irish and Spanish seem more willing to kill innocent people in pursuit of their aims than the Welsh or the Scots. That said, the Irish have had the most success in getting what they want (or at least a  form of power sharing) so maybe killing women and children works after all. 

If you want to go there,there is an argument that Irish women and children were killed a long time before the British were. But we are talking about Scottish Independence here and not the Battle of Mboto Gorge.

[Bjornebye]

6 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

My point was that of the three nationalist groups; the Scots, the welsh and the irish, only the latter have killed innocent people to advance their cause. The other 2 have relied on democracy and made no progress. Maybe sturgeon should authorise the killing of little children out shopping in Warrington today to get what she wants. 

What a fucking cunt. That’s a truly horrible thing to say. 

[Vincent Vega]

Another thread where Kurtz professes to be an expert but clearly knows fuck all.

[Mudface]

16 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

My point was that of the three nationalist groups; the Scots, the welsh and the irish, only the latter have killed innocent people to advance their cause. The other 2 have relied on democracy and made no progress. Maybe sturgeon should authorise the killing of little children out shopping in Warrington today to get what she wants. 

You need to add 'in recent memory' to that. And even there, it wasn't for the want of trying on Meibion Glyndwr's part- they firebombed hundreds of English-owned holiday homes in the '70s and '80s. 

[deiseach]

21 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

My point was that of the three nationalist groups; the Scots, the welsh and the irish, only the latter have killed innocent people to advance their cause. The other 2 have relied on democracy and made no progress. Maybe sturgeon should authorise the killing of little children out shopping in Warrington today to get what she wants. 

What national cause was motivating those who killed 10 innocent people in Ballymurphy in 1971?

[Champ]

13 hours ago, mattyq said:

Tourism

Whisky

Finance

Engineering

Heroin

It was a serious question

[Bjornebye]

5 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

Well I was living there at the time and it was a truly fucking vile act by the IRA  which has been largely forgotten about. 

Again you have no idea what you are on about. It hasn’t been forgotten about at all. For you to bring it up and suggest Sturgeon should do the same even in jest is bad form. 

[deiseach]

1 minute ago, Bjornebye said:

Again you have no idea what you are on about. It hasn’t been forgotten about at all. 

The Tories certainly hoped people had forgotten about it when they gave a peerage to arch-Brexiteer Claire Fox whose party at the time of the Warrington bombing said it was an expression of "the right of the Irish people to take whatever measures necessary in their struggle for freedom".

[Bjornebye]

Just now, Colonel Kurtz said:

I was making the point that of the 3 nationalist groups in the union, only 1has used violence against civilians to advance their cause and arguably they have been the most successful in getting what they want. That was my only point and I think it’s indisputable. 
 

You’ve been banging on for weeks in the Israel forum about the IDF killing children (and I’ve largely agreed with you), why is such an affront to point out that the IRA did the same and in our country ? I don’t see the difference but accept it was in poor taste and for that I apologise, 

Show me the scots and Welsh in recent history being persecuted for being Catholic , show me the black & tans pillaging villages there, show me all the evils the British empire committed in Ireland since 1800 in Scotland and Wales and yeah I’d show you the Scots and Welsh fighting back to defend themselves. Clown 

[deiseach]

The most successful nationalism in these islands at using violence against civilians is British nationalism. Over and over again it has been demonstrated that agents of British nationalism can commit murder and get away with it, thus giving an incentive to those willing to commit such acts of violence in the future and pour encourager les autres those who might wish to resist British nationalism. Yet you will have people spouting off on the subject who are incapable of seeing that British nationalism even exists, and we all know what the greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was.

[Captain Turdseye]

14 hours ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

I want them to do it just to see the flag shaggers reactions in this country but then the tories would just create some utter bullshit nationalist flag that wouod probably look like japan's but of Winston Churchills arsehole. 

Surely the public would have some input into the new flag. Flaggy McFlagface would make us proud to be British again. 

[Bjornebye]

28 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

I don’t want to fall out over this but given how animated you have been in the Israel thread about the deaths of children, surely you are not now claiming the Warrington bombing was a legitimate act of self defence ? 

It was an abhorrent terrorist attack by a splinter group. Where have I claimed it was self defence? You brought the Warrington bomb into your argument after you began it in vile fashion. I abhor anybody who acts violently towards innocent people be you Hamas, the British government , The IDF or the IRA. You use these atrocities as a sound bite. 
 

Now respond to the actual points being made by me and others. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 hour ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

I was making the point that of the 3 nationalist groups in the union, only 1has used violence against civilians to advance their cause and arguably they have been the most successful in getting what they want. That was my only point and I think it’s indisputable. 
 

You’ve been banging on for weeks in the Israel forum about the IDF killing children (and I’ve largely agreed with you), why is such an affront to point out that the IRA did the same and in our country ? I don’t see the difference but accept it was in poor taste and for that I apologise, 

Negged for apologising.