Scottish Independence, yay or nay?

[Stouffer]

Fuckin' bottlers.

[Moctezuma]

Scotland back to get bummed by Tories? and rightly so, if I may add.

 

 

Perhaps you meant this post in jest but I'm sure you'll be happy with everywhere in the UK getting a good rodgering from the Eton saliva dripping, Thatcher faeces flecked tumuscent member of the conservative party, including a city in the northwest which this forum is closely affiliated with?

 

[Nightcat]

You've probably missed my previous days posts Moctezuma. I agree with what you are saying. Scottish people had their chance though. When Scotland's capital votes 61% No to independence, there is not much to say. Glasgow on the other hand... 53% yes, only Glasgow, Dundee and a couple of other areas voted yes. 

[Anubis]

Well, that wasn't as exciting as it could have been. And predictably it looks like the Coalition are going to refuse Devo Max. Scotland back to getting bummed by Tories then

 

Not wishing to have a go, but you do realise the rest of us (particularly Northern England) are getting bummed by the Tories to a far worse degree than the poor wee bairns north of the border?

[PestiRed]

Not wishing to have a go, but you do realise the rest of us (particularly Northern England) are getting bummed by the Tories to a far worse degree than the poor wee bairns north of the border?

Yes and one of the reasons that I'm unlikely to be coming back anytime soon. All parts of the UK can start campaigning for regional devolution if they like. I seem to remember the North East having a go a few years ago. I'd recommend it because the country is going to remain London-centric for a long, long time

[Gnasher]

If the tories get back in they will probably let Duncan Smith try another poll tax on the Scots as a reward.

[xerxes]

Phew, at last that’s over.

 

I was surprised by the size of the No majority, but not in the result.

 

The highlight in the campaign is the 84% turnout. People are talking politics again, and that is a good thing. Also, after his lost years as PM, Gordon Brown rediscovered what he is good at. Strong on detail, as well as passion for his homeland. He may well prove to be a significant force north of the border now. And not only has Scotland won more powers, and rightly so, 45% cannot be ignored, but also the demand for reshaping representation in the rest of the UK will prove irresistible. Cameron’s high stakes “Yes/No” option has also come off for him. An independence referendum will not happen again for a long time.

 

Salmond personally has won. He can claim a valiant defeat, increased support for independence, and more powers for Scotland. But he also lost the argument. Blaming the media, as some are doing, is the losers lament. No responsible journalist could claim that Salmond had a coherent, costed plan for independence- his fault, not theirs. The campaign was more expenditure, no costs, and prosperity. Your average Scot can see the flaw in that. Also the “kick the Tories out” message was unwise, when 500,000 voted Tory north of the border at the last General Election, if you want to send out a unifying independence message. An independent assembly would have looked nothing like King Salmond’s cosy vision

 

Cameron’s “victory” is a fragile one. Probably the best thing that happened to the No campaign was when the poll came in showing they were behind, from that moment their campaign was energised and they never looked back. Will the Tory party trust Cameron to lead a EU referendum on the back of this? There will be grave doubts. The Eurosceptics will be a lot smarter and sharper than Salmond in getting their sums right.

 

But when the smoke clears, Clegg may take the most satisfaction out of this. Narrow nationalism has been voted out, representative democracy is in. That is good news for the Libdems. Labour? They keep their MP’s for the next general Election and beyond. A good result.

[PestiRed]

Cameron very vague on what he might give Scotland but very clear on what should be done about the West Lothian question. Funny that

[lifetime fan]

Cameron very vague on what he might give Scotland but very clear on what should be done about the West Lothian question. Funny that

 

And Clegg thinks there's a workable solution.

 

I bet he does, lining up his next coalition already the slimey fucker.

[Moctezuma]

You've probably missed my previous days posts Moctezuma. I agree with what you are saying. Scottish people had their chance though. When Scotland's capital votes 61% No to independence, there is not much to say. Glasgow on the other hand... 53% yes, only Glasgow, Dundee and a couple of other areas voted yes. 

 

Fair enough, my dad remarked that the vote appeared to him to be a spilt in part between those with assesst and modest and higher wealth and those who have little, he reckons a significant amount of the yes campaigns support came/comes from the poorer sections of society for whom a move towards independence is less of a gamble. This would reflect itself in the disparity between Edinburgh and Glasgows vote, the fact that financial services (maily Edinburgh based) also made noises about moving probably increased this disparity between the two cities.

[Gnasher]

That result leaves the north of England well and truly fucked.

 

Cameron has already raised the prospect of only English mps voting on things like tax, nhs welfare etc. without the jocks and the Welsh it's an open goal for the Eton elite for a generation. The tories have sensed an opportunity and i expect them to seize it.

[Jose Jones]

That result leaves the north of England well and truly fucked.

 

Cameron has already raised the prospect of only English mps voting on things like tax, nhs welfare etc. without the jocks and the Welsh it's an open goal for the Eton elite for a generation. The tories have sensed an opportunity and i expect them to seize it.

 

The tories are ruthless bastards so will now take the chance to certainly lower the influence of Scotland and Scottish MPs in Westminster (under the guise of devolving powers to the Scottish parliament) whilst Scotland remains part of the UK.  Everything they could have hoped for.

[xerxes]

Scotland back to get bummed by Tories?

This has been one of the most misrepresented elements of the campaign.

 

None of the past four governments, over a period of 17 years have been Tory, three labour, one coalition. A Yes vote was voting out Labour , not Tories , and Labour support in Scotland remains strong.

[Moctezuma]

 Will the Tory party trust Cameron to lead a EU referendum on the back of this? There will be grave doubts. The Eurosceptics will be a lot smarter and sharper than Salmond in getting their sums right.

 

 

I would have though Xeres that for a sizeable chunk of the conservative party having someone who is poor at leading a no vote at referendums would suite them down to the ground re staying in the European Union.

[Moctezuma]

This has been one of the most misrepresented elements of the campaign.

 

None of the past four governments, over a period of 17 years have been Tory, three labour, one coalition. A Yes vote was voting out Labour , not Tories , and Labour support in Scotland remains strong.

 

Given the Labour party’s tracking toward the centre right under Blair your assertion be challenged there, though the Keynesian economic model Brown and Darling followed initially after the crash was more to the left. The loss of the Scottish block of Labour MPs and a potential swing from the Lib Dems to UKIP could potentially install and even more neo-liberal Conservative fronted government in Westminster next time round.

[Dougie Do'ins]

I didnt understand that either but was chatting to one of His Lanky Mate's friends and he was saying all of his family apart from one aunt had voted by post. Dunno why

were the ballots returned by free post ? That might explain it.

[Gnasher]

were the ballots returned by free post ? That might explain it.

Or they knew they'd be too pissed up to walk to the polling station?

[J-V]

Fuck sake I was hoping we were going to be rid of cunting Labour for good....

[xerxes]

I would have though Xerxes that for a sizeable chunk of the conservative party having someone who is poor at leading a no vote at referendums would suite them down to the ground re staying in the European Union.

I think you may be right.

 

Whether the Eurosceptics want to win on the incompetence of Cameron is another question.

[xerxes]

Given the Labour party’s tracking toward the centre right under Blair your assertion be challenged there, though the Keynesian economic model Brown and Darling followed initially after the crash was more to the left. The loss of the Scottish block of Labour MPs and a potential swing from the Lib Dems to UKIP could potentially install and even more neo-liberal Conservative fronted government in Westminster next time round. [/size]

Labour is Labour.

 

I don't think that the Scots MP's are going any time soon, nor do I think the Libdems are vulnerable to UKIP.

[Paulie Dangerously]

,

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Not wishing to have a go, but you do realise the rest of us (particularly Northern England) are getting bummed by the Tories to a far worse degree than the poor wee bairns north of the border?

I negged this in error. Can someone address the balance please.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Done didly done, neighbour.

[Nightcat]

Horsey Samantha. She looks like a female sex tourist in Africa.

[Jairzinho]

Fucking shithouses.