Does Rodgers deserve another season.

[Trumo]

The threads about Balotelli and Lallana have got me thinking about something that has bugged me about Rodgers this season.

 

To my mind, Rodgers is falling into the classic trap of a manager persisting with certain under-performing players to try and get them into some form. The problem with that is the manager can end up under-utilising other players, only to suddenly give them a place in the starting XI when they aren't ready in the sense of not being at their sharpest. It usually ends up with a completely disjointed team where players lacking match-sharpness are mixed with players out of form, and can drag down the performances of the few players who have been doing well.

 

Rodgers was doing this in his first season, but part of it could be put down to having a squad seriously lacking in depth, and part of it could be put down to Rodgers feeling his way into the job. Last season, he kept the under-performers on the bench and only gave them sporadic appearances for the most part, so the team looked settled and found its form collectively. Having longer to train between games probably helped too.

 

Whether he likes it or not, when the club has invested so much money on new players, that money really needs to be out on the pitch more often than not. We are not paupers but neither are we like the clubs built on external wealth, who can afford to invest large sums to in theory 'strengthen' their bench.

[Mcfaggen]

Thinking back to last season's start, after ten games we'd won six, drawn two and lost two. Some of those performances were, frankly flat (and some of those wins were plucked from the air by Suarez and Sturridge). It probably wasn't really until December that the team hit their straps and started flying. 

 

I'm prepared to give a bit of patience on the performance side of thing and see if perhaps the regime is designed for second half of the season uplift, but the reality is that if it does not, then serious questions will be asked. 

 

The recruitment strategy (being generous) up front was abysmal - to come out of it with just Balotelli and Lambert added is tragic. I'm OK with Lambert being in & around the squad (low cost, motivated), but failure to add a quality striker (or two) to support Sturridge is costing dear right now. Failure to add up top in January will be, in my eyes, criminal. 

 

Of course Sturridge's injury is regrettable, but it's not like it couldn't be foreseen. He gets injured quite a bit (he needs to follow club instructions on his programme religiously. If someone demands something different of him, he has to have the balls to say no) but it's not his fault the club weren't ready for it. 

 

Watching the team this season, the big things that have stuck out has been the lack of willingness to go straight at the opposition's defence. We're playing sideways and backways mostly... in the early season (I think against Villa) we won the ball from one of their corners and Sterling was on his way... and then, he stopped, turned and played it back to the full back... why? Last season he'd have gone forward, probably lost it but he would have had them backing off into their box. 

 

This perhaps isn't helped by Balotelli hugging the touchlines like they're his mamma. Call me old fashioned, but I prefer my strikers in the middle of the pitch. There are times when there is literally no one in the box because he's got the ball on the wing... I believe this is a bit of his natural style, but bloody hell, someone have a word please. 

 

Is there a crumb of comfort? Well, the position isn't totally lost... only a few points behind fourth despite the poor start. Sturridge on the verge of returning. If we can get performance levels up, become a bit more direct and start playing the 'in-form' players again (rather than based on reputation), then we could end up in the top four by Christmas... add some actual quality in January and top three / four is possible. 

 

And ultimately where he finishes will be the determining factor for me. Top four means yes, he stays. Fifth I'd perhaps consider it if performances are better and the tactics are looking effective... below that and I'd have to say no. 

 

In terms of the cups... League Cup is progressing OK... getting through is what matters, despite the poor performances, but things will be tougher from here on in... so performances need to rise to match it. We could win it, or we could get dumped in the next round (though if that happens the post match interview had better contain expletives). I don't see too much confidence at present though. Winning the thing would help him enormously I think in terms of self belief (rather than bravado). 

 

In the Champions League, it was always a race for second... Basel away wasn't pretty, the pressure is now on... performances need to improve dramatically to ensure qualification for the next round. Going out in the Group phase isn't a sackable offence in my eyes - finishing bottom of the Group might suggest that even if we do finish fourth in the league this year, he's not the man for the job. 

[Paco]

we ll know by 1st January what we have left to play for.

 

could be all of getting in top 4, league cup and champions league knock out or we could be in some or none with only the fa cup to look forward to.

 

season saving run of 12 games in 40 days coming up that brendan will need to get right because he has got very little right so far this season unfortunately.

[Paco]

Miles out of position for the winner today though. Left it to little Phil.

no excuse. coutinho should have done better it was the left back after all not hazard.

[Horus]

Give him another season, you nobber.

[Paco]

 

'Liverpool football club isn't the place to learn how to manage, because we're not made of money, and every year we're shit our reputation is eroded still further.

 

We need what we've needed for years, a top class football administrator and an experienced top class manager, everything else is jeeking off into the footballing Kleenex of life'

 

 

not one manager of this football club whether he had managed before or was promoted from playing or coaching, not one of them didnt have to learn how to manage on the job.

 

every season has a new challenge. you have to get top 4 then you have to challenge for title, you have to get out of group in CL. you have to win a trophy.

 

I ll bet shankly had similar problems when he first had to juggle league and European football.

 

even mourinho with all the riches chelsea have couldn't immediately turn them around last season.

 

you re looking for someone to come in and instantly make us great again with a fraction of the money city and chelsea have? even city cant qualify for group stages with a billion pound squad.

 

what you want isnt possible.

[SlugTrail]

I have just read the interview with Rodgers from yesterday, the most teling thing for me was his acknowledgement that he put Henderson in a marking role on fabregas. Last season it was all about let them worry about us, we need to get back to that.

[Section_31]

'Liverpool football club isn't the place to learn how to manage, because we're not made of money, and every year we're shit our reputation is eroded still further.

 

We need what we've needed for years, a top class football administrator and an experienced top class manager, everything else is jeeking off into the footballing Kleenex of life'

 

 

not one manager of this football club whether he had managed before or was promoted from playing or coaching, not one of them didnt have to learn how to manage on the job.

 

every season has a new challenge. you have to get top 4 then you have to challenge for title, you have to get out of group in CL. you have to win a trophy.

 

I ll bet shankly had similar problems when he first had to juggle league and European football.

 

even mourinho with all the riches chelsea have couldn't immediately turn them around last season.

 

you re looking for someone to come in and instantly make us great again with a fraction of the money city and chelsea have? even city cant qualify for group stages with a billion pound squad.

 

what you want isnt possible.

Hate this kind of patronising bollocks, it's like the crap that if you think Balotelli's shit you're somehow naive for wanting a striker who can actually play football 'we're not the draw we used to be :-(' etc etc blah blah blah.

 

I don't want any of those things in a manager you mention at all, I want someome with a pedigree beyond being sacked by Reading and playing fancy football with Swansea at the helm of one of the world's greatest football clubs, someone who doesn't embark on one transfer disaster after another.

 

You talk of Mourinho turning Chelsea around, what is Rodgers now being expected to 'turn around'? His own fuckups, that's what. This isn't a team he inherited, it's a team he's built at quite considerable expense and it's shit, let's just keep giving him money to spend on players and hope one of them sticks.

 

Bringing Shanks into the discussion is frankly madness as be quite literally built a football club from the ground up.

[Paco]

Hate this kind of patronising bollocks, it's like the crap that if you think Balotelli's shit you're somehow naive for wanting a striker who can actually play football 'we're not the draw we used to be :-(' etc etc blah blah blah.

 

I don't want any of those things in a manager you mention at all, I want someome with a pedigree beyond being sacked by Reading and playing fancy football with Swansea at the helm of one of the world's greatest football clubs, someone who doesn't embark on one transfer disaster after another.

 

You talk of Mourinho turning Chelsea around, what is Rodgers now being expected to 'turn around'? His own fuckups, that's what. This isn't a team he inherited, it's a team he's built at quite considerable expense and it's shit, let's just keep giving him money to spend on players and hope one of them sticks.

 

Bringing Shanks into the discussion is frankly madness as be quite literally built a football club from the ground up.

25 years without a league title, somebody is going to have to build it from the ground again. Might be Rodgers if he gets his act together very quickly. if he goes we re starting again with someone else who may get lucky with this squad and a few additions but will ultimately be looking to build his own squad.

 

im sorry you feel patronised as thats not my intention.

[SlugTrail]

Problem being that without Suarez no one is worried!

no one is worried because at the moment we are lethargic in getting the ball forward, its all play around between the back 4and Gerrard, then a long punt to nobody, when we do have teams pinned back it all very aresenal 2008, absolutely no substance.

 

as someone alluded to earlier, we are no longer direct we don't go for the jugular anymore, last season we were ruthless killers we would slit thier throat without them knowing about it, this year we slap someone with a glove and ask for a duel.

 

i know loosing Suarez was a big deal but why change the principles that your game is built on, every player looks a shadow of their former selves.

[Aldonose]

25 years without a league title, somebody is going to have to build it from the ground again. Might be Rodgers if he gets his act together very quickly. if he goes we re starting again with someone else who may get lucky with this squad and a few additions but will ultimately be looking to build his own squad.

 

im sorry you feel patronised as thats not my intention.

I'm really starting to feel like we're starting over again anyway mate. This season is on a par with his first season. I would actually say it's fucking worse, and considering this is his 3rd season, I'm worried to say the least.

[RobbieOR]

Hate this kind of patronising bollocks, it's like the crap that if you think Balotelli's shit you're somehow naive for wanting a striker who can actually play football 'we're not the draw we used to be :-(' etc etc blah blah blah.

 

I don't want any of those things in a manager you mention at all, I want someome with a pedigree beyond being sacked by Reading and playing fancy football with Swansea at the helm of one of the world's greatest football clubs, someone who doesn't embark on one transfer disaster after another.

 

You talk of Mourinho turning Chelsea around, what is Rodgers now being expected to 'turn around'? His own fuckups, that's what. This isn't a team he inherited, it's a team he's built at quite considerable expense and it's shit, let's just keep giving him money to spend on players and hope one of them sticks.

 

Bringing Shanks into the discussion is frankly madness as be quite literally built a football club from the ground up.

 

We've only ever hired one maybe two managers in our history with that sort of pedigree. Benitez and Houllier. 

[ratcatcher]

25 years without a league title, somebody is going to have to build it from the ground again. Might be Rodgers if he gets his act together very quickly. if he goes we re starting again with someone else who may get lucky with this squad and a few additions but will ultimately be looking to build his own squad.

 

im sorry you feel patronised as thats not my intention.

 

I've been saying this from about 4 r 5 games into the season when it became clear just how much we depended on Suarez and to a lesser extent, the likes of sturridge, sterling, coutinho and a few others.

 

Oppos were shit scared of facing us in the latter half of the season with suarez and sturridge up front, the pressing game we played, the incisive one touch passing football.

 

But, its all gone tits up. I see rodgers getting criticism for changing formation in games this season but this is what he did last season and didnt see anyone complaining.

 

I think we've regressed to the point when rodgers first took over. We look to have no game plan, no idea how to defend and perhaps more importantly, fuck all confidence.

 

People may rightly or wrongly complain about spunking £100m this transfer window but, the plain fact remains to build a title winning side, you need to spend in the region of £500m and still there's no guarantee of winning it.

[Section_31]

We've only ever hired one maybe two managers in our history with that sort of pedigree. Benitez and Houllier.

It was a different game then Robbie, we've got a family photograph of John Barnes and John Aldridge at my cousin's birthday at a social club and they're both holding a pint of John Smith's.

 

Is it any coincidence that Houllier and Rafa as you mention were both successful? The last boot room manager was Evans and the players took the piss out of him. They were the first of the new breed of overpaid, spoiled Premiership player and they couldn't be trusted to conduct themselves properly without a tight leesh, Evans probably thought they could because - quite frankly - he was from a different era.

 

Also, all of our bootroom managers served apprenticeships under more experienced men, that's what they wanted with Rodgers and a DOf but he understandably bucked.

[Tony Moanero]

I have just read the interview with Rodgers from yesterday, the most teling thing for me was his acknowledgement that he put Henderson in a marking role on fabregas. Last season it was all about let them worry about us, we need to get back to that.

Most telling?

 

Suarez plays for Barcelona and Daniel Sturridge is injured. Teams aren't worried about us anymore.

[Aldonose]

Most telling?

 

Suarez plays for Barcelona and Daniel Sturridge is injured. Teams aren't worried about us anymore.

That in itself is worrying. Our entire success last season was based on a player who was probably the best in the world, and his strike partner. We've taken them both out of the equation and have gone to absolute shite. It's not as if you could even make a case that we're still creating chances, or we've improved at the back. The past few months have made it look like he's built fuck all in the past few years.

[Section_31]

25 years without a league title, somebody is going to have to build it from the ground again. Might be Rodgers if he gets his act together very quickly. if he goes we re starting again with someone else who may get lucky with this squad and a few additions but will ultimately be looking to build his own squad.

 

im sorry you feel patronised as thats not my intention.

No worries mate.

 

I don't think the club does need rebuilding, the club itself is in reasonable shape, financially sound and with a productive youth system. We also still have our reputation.

 

The problem is the first team squad and that's because we've made a succession of bad manager appointment decisions.

 

Rodgers had to undo the damage done by Dalglish's expensive transfer disasters, and now he's going to have to undo his own - or someone else will.

 

If AC Milan or Real Madrid were in the same situation and had made the same kind of management appointments - a manager from the past who'd been out of the game for years, and an inexperienced manager who'd been sacked from a serie B side and done okay with a Serie A minow, we'd be baffled and wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised at the situation they found themselves in.

[Tony Moanero]

I'd like to see a list of strikers/forwards, in preferential order, that Brendan Rodgers would have liked to have replace Suarez with. Then for someone at the club to explain, why we ended up getting Balotelli. We know about Sanchez and Remy, were there no others?

[RobbieOR]

It was a different game then Robbie, we've got a family photograph of John Barnes and John Aldridge at my cousin's birthday at a social club and they're both holding a pint of John Smith's.

 

Is it any coincidence that Houllier and Rafa as you mention were both successful? The last boot room manager was Evans and the players took the piss out of him. They were the first of the new breed of overpaid, spoiled Premiership player and they couldn't be trusted to conduct themselves properly without a tight leesh, Evans probably thought they could because - quite frankly - he was from a different era.

 

Also, all of our bootroom managers served apprenticeships under more experienced men, that's what they wanted with Rodgers and a DOf but he understandably bucked.

 

Different game, yes, but it's still part of the club that we've never done it. 

 

We took a gamble appointing Rodgers and Ive seen enough in his first two seasons to suggest that his experience is not a problem. The guy is one of the best young managers on the planet and if we're going down the route of replacing a manager after one bad season (if this year continues) on the same path then we'll never be successful. Only teams who have unlimited funds can afford to sack managers willy nilly. We have to build something, like last season. It's not going to happen overnight especially when you lose your best player. 

[SlugTrail]

Most telling?

Suarez plays for Barcelona and Daniel Sturridge is injured. Teams aren't worried about us anymore.

But it also goes tI show he has compromised his principles, maybe coming so close last season has affected Brendan more than we thought. For me if we were still playing the same way but lack of a decent strike meant we weren't scoring goals, I wouldn be happy but at least I would understand, but we are not even approaching a 10th of the intensity we had. One player cannot be the difference between a midflield and attack hassling everyone on the pitch to no one even wanting to close down.

 

I get so frustrated at the amount of attacks that break down when we have had 20 passes got everyone forward bar the cb's and gerrard, then we stop moving loose possession and teams counter attack and score.

 

Loosing Suarez and Sturbridge is a big deal but if the principle of the team were the same then we might not be having all these doom and gloom threads, as we would be able to see that when sturridge is back it would change, but I just can't see that on current form and formation.

[lamai]

The biggest mistake this season was replacing Suarez with Balotelli, not our defence.  

 

No tactics will work with Balotelli, Borini and Lambert as your forward line.

 

None of this shit would be happening now if we signed a decent forward

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

The biggest mistake this season was replacing Suarez with Balotelli, not our defence.  

 

No tactics will work with Balotelli, Borini and Lambert as your forward line.

 

None of this shit would be happening now if we signed a decent forward

Balotelli not doing well has been massively detrimental, losing Suarez and Sturridge has hit us hard. I'd say not buying a top quality DM has hurt us too.

[Torvald Utne]

The way we play is to hope a forward picks up the ball in his own half and takes on the opposition all by himself, creating and scoring himself then when we lose the ball we cross our fingers and hope that the opposition fucks up their chances to score and hand the ball back to us. So yes, in a way replacing a forward capable of doing that with one that can't has cost us this season

[Denny Crane]

 

Neil Scott ‏@66zimbo

We've less points after 11 games than we had at the same stage of Dalglish, Hodgson, Benitez, Houllier, Evans & Souness's last seasons.

 

Rodgers got to buck the trend that has started.

 

 

[lamai]

 

 

Neil Scott ‏@66zimbo

We've less points after 11 games than we had at the same stage of Dalglish, Hodgson, Benitez, Houllier, Evans & Souness's last seasons.

 

Rodgers got to buck the trend that has started.

 

 

 

 

It will change when Sturridge comes back. If it doesn't then I am lost