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Same old South Yorkshire Police


Paco
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BBC News - Police chief email accuses Hillsborough group of lying

 

South Yorkshire's chief constable accused a group representing Hillsborough Disaster victims and their families of lying, it has emerged.

 

David Crompton made the comments in an email days before the publication of the Hillsborough report in September.

 

He said the families' "version of certain events has become 'the truth' even though it isn't".

 

Mr Crompton apologised for any offence caused but has not specified what falsehoods he was referring to.

 

Mr Crompton emailed the force's Assistant Chief Constable Andy Holt and head of media Mark Thompson on 8 September, four days before the Hillsborough Independent Panel Report was released.

 

The email has been released by the county's police and crime commissioner, Shaun Wright, following a Freedom of Information request.

 

'We'll be roadkill'

In the email, Mr Crompton asked for a meeting with Mr Holt and Mr Thompson to discuss launching a web page about Hillsborough with links to documents including previous apologies and memos.

 

He said: "We then publicise it on Twitter. In effect it amounts to the case for the defence.

 

"One thing is certain - the Hillsborough Campaign for Justice will be doing their version... in fact their version of certain events has become 'the truth' even though it isn't.

 

"I just have the feeling that the media 'machine' favours the families and not us, so we need to be a bit more innovative in our response to have a fighting chance otherwise we will just be roadkill."

 

 

The email was released by the new police and crime commissioner

Police Commissioner Wright said he had informed the Independent Police Complaints Commission and the home secretary of the existence of the email and was "disappointed at the use of such language".

 

In a statement, Mr Crompton said: "It was never intended to cause any offence and I apologise if it has done so.

 

"Nor was it intended to challenge the integrity and views of those who lost loved ones in the Hillsborough disaster.

 

"Following the publication of the panel's report I said in the most forthright terms that I supported the findings and that is still my position."

 

The BBC asked South Yorkshire Police what Mr Crompton's intentions were at the time he wrote the email and what he thought the families had been untruthful about, but was told he was unavailable for further comment.

 

Margaret Aspinall, who lost her son James at Hillsborough, said: "I think it's an absolute disgrace.

 

"We have been used to nasty comments in the past anyway so it doesn't surprise me whatsoever."

 

She said she did not accept Mr Crompton's apology.

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He said the families' "version of certain events has become 'the truth' even though it isn't"....

 

 

 

"Nor was it intended to challenge the integrity and views of those who lost loved ones in the Hillsborough disaster.

 

Quite. Meet the new landlords, same as the old landlords.

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This is fucking disgusting. This cunt mentions the media machine and it just fucking shows you what these bastards are all about. Absolute Fucking cunts' date=' I hope this cunts chestnuts get roasted over an open fire.

Anyone for some roasted Possum?[/quote']

 

The same media machine they manipulated in 1989 and kept manipulating for over 20 years, the cunt understands the power alright, the democratisation of power by new media obviously scares the shit out of these people, however they reckon a few tweets will get people back onside. May do for the gullible few and others who find the HIP report doesn't paint the picture they have enjoyed since 1989. Why the cunts find honesty so hard is difficult to fathom, there should never be such a battle between the public and public servants with regards to an incident like this, if they had held their hands up at the beginning they would not have anything to fear now. Fucking protectionist snakes even in the here an now, still unwilling to serve justice- which I thought was what they supposedly went into the job for.

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Hillsborough has threatened to become an end in itself for some time now. Prospects for a resolution are pretty much nil, mainly because there can never be agreement on what “justice” looks like.

 

The leaked e mail in the OP betrays an adversarial, conspiratorial and defensive mind set which has beset the Establishment from day one, and the disaster is riven by paradox.

 

The Police quite clearly lied and perverted the course of justice in handling the fallout from that day. The guilty parties should have been prosecuted decades ago. Yet the cover-up was unnecessary. The Police calls on that day were made without malice. The opening of the gates was a judgement of Solomon, the management teetered on the incompetent, but probably fell short of negligence by the standards of the day, and could have been dealt with as such. The FA, the clubs (including LFC and SWFC), the safety authorities and local councils all played a part in creating the context for disaster that day, and have often been craven (the FA in particular) in denying their own sins of omission ( to varying degrees).

 

I have seen little leadership on where we go from here. There are two families groups, numerous sets of lawyers, several hundreds of bereaved relatives and several thousands who were directly touched by that day. “The truth” ( as much as anything approaching it is ever likely to surface) is pretty well known now. The professionals directly involved are almost all retired. Some relatives would like to move on now, some don’t, that’s the nature of grief. Trying to judge Hillsborough in 2013 becomes increasingly difficult as each year passes. So much that all of us accepted as the norm then is far from it now.

 

I see little prospect of any broadly accepted resolution to the Disaster, just the erosion of the years taking the detail and sharp edges off the day.

 

Like many, I was dismayed ( but not surprised) by this most recent story. It just seems that the tragedy is condemned to be on “repeat” forever. The biggest victory was won a long time ago, and that is that stadia were modernised in this country such that the disaster as played out on that day could not be repeated. Their subsequent safety record bearing that out. But it was a hell of a price to pay.

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Hillsborough has threatened to become an end in itself for some time now. Prospects for a resolution are pretty much nil, mainly because there can never be agreement on what “justice” looks like.

 

The leaked e mail in the OP betrays an adversarial, conspiratorial and defensive mind set which has beset the Establishment from day one, and the disaster is riven by paradox.

 

The Police quite clearly lied and perverted the course of justice in handling the fallout from that day. The guilty parties should have been prosecuted decades ago. Yet the cover-up was unnecessary. The Police calls on that day were made without malice. The opening of the gates was a judgement of Solomon, the management teetered on the incompetent, but probably fell short of negligence by the standards of the day, and could have been dealt with as such. The FA, the clubs (including LFC and SWFC), the safety authorities and local councils all played a part in creating the context for disaster that day, and have often been craven (the FA in particular) in denying their own sins of omission ( to varying degrees).

 

I have seen little leadership on where we go from here. There are two families groups, numerous sets of lawyers, several hundreds of bereaved relatives and several thousands who were directly touched by that day. “The truth” ( as much as anything approaching it is ever likely to surface) is pretty well known now. The professionals directly involved are almost all retired. Some relatives would like to move on now, some don’t, that’s the nature of grief. Trying to judge Hillsborough in 2013 becomes increasingly difficult as each year passes. So much that all of us accepted as the norm then is far from it now.

 

I see little prospect of any broadly accepted resolution to the Disaster, just the erosion of the years taking the detail and sharp edges off the day.

 

Like many, I was dismayed ( but not surprised) by this most recent story. It just seems that the tragedy is condemned to be on “repeat” forever. The biggest victory was won a long time ago, and that is that stadia were modernised in this country such that the disaster as played out on that day could not be repeated. Their subsequent safety record bearing that out. But it was a hell of a price to pay.

 

Justice = prosecutions

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Justice = prosecutions

 

Does it?

 

I think the liklihood of successful prosecutions for the events leading up to the disaster is pretty much nil.

 

The post-disaster falsification of records is much tighter and more cut and dried, and more serious. Pre-disaster what was negligent would be very difficult to prove. Post disaster, what was falsified, when and by whom, a more relatively straightforwards task.

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Justice is down to the individual, Now I am not for one minute saying I know what constitutes as justice for Anne Williams but her fight is all about getting the cause of death changed and a fresh inquest for her son.

 

For others it's prison sentences, and I fear we're not going to get as far as that.

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Justice is a process as much as an outcome. I think most people would be happy to see the process of justice properly applied. It might be very difficult to successfully prosecute those involved in the disaster for criminal negligence, but I hope the authorities can now at least investigate the possibility in the full light of the facts.

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Does it?

 

I think the liklihood of successful prosecutions for the events leading up to the disaster is pretty much nil.

 

The post-disaster falsification of records is much tighter and more cut and dried, and more serious. Pre-disaster what was negligent would be very difficult to prove. Post disaster, what was falsified, when and by whom, a more relatively straightforwards task.

 

Completely agree. I have always said that every decision,pre crush, was made in good faith, no matter how poor the decisions were, no one set out to kill anybody.

The conscious choice NOT to take responsibility for those decisions and to lie and blame others to protect oneself is the crime...in my opinion obviously. And it's this cover up that the investigation should focus on in the main.

I never lost a friend or family member but I was on the Leppings Lane terrace that day.

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The Police quite clearly lied and perverted the course of justice in handling the fallout from that day. The guilty parties should have been prosecuted decades ago. Yet the cover-up was unnecessary. The Police calls on that day were made without malice. The opening of the gates was a judgement of Solomon, the management teetered on the incompetent, but probably fell short of negligence by the standards of the day, and could have been dealt with as such. The FA, the clubs (including LFC and SWFC), the safety authorities and local councils all played a part in creating the context for disaster that day, and have often been craven (the FA in particular) in denying their own sins of omission ( to varying degrees).

 

Sorry but that's far too flippant not to highlight, have a word with yourself.

 

Like many, I was dismayed ( but not surprised) by this most recent story. It just seems that the tragedy is condemned to be on “repeat” forever. The biggest victory was won a long time ago, and that is that stadia were modernised in this country such that the disaster as played out on that day could not be repeated. Their subsequent safety record bearing that out. But it was a hell of a price to pay.

 

You sure about that? How many stadiums are there throughout the UK, and how many have been modernised as you call it? How many of them have good management, trained stewards, effective policing?

 

You say you are dismayed by this most recent story, but given the context of your post overall, what part of this most recent story are you dismayed about exactly? The sentence following your expression of dismay seems to be an indicator.

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Not setting out to kill someone is no defence in the case of criminal negligence, which it is my belief was the direct cause of the disaster.

 

Try not maintaining the brakes on your car for a while and then running someone over for instance.

 

That's how I see it as well. There were acts of negligence in many areas, the decision to appoint Duckenfield, the decision to open the gates, the omission to steward the pens, not taking any action when they could see what was happening right in front of them and on the cameras, stopping the emergency services from entering the stadium, the list goes on.

 

Certain people were criminally culpable and should be prosecuted

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Not setting out to kill someone is no defence in the case of criminal negligence, which it is my belief was the direct cause of the disaster.

 

Try not maintaining the brakes on your car for a while and then running someone over for instance.

 

Criminal negligence pre-disaster would be very difficult to prove. There is a big difference between mistakes, decisions made in good faith, and criminal negligence.

 

The difference between what was the norm, acceptable and reasonable then and now is considerable. Some who may have been able to offer expert testimony in that regard will be dead too. Some of the lawyers who may be involved would not even have been at junior school then. Pinning responsibility on individuals will be extraordinarily difficult, and individuals, organisations and clubs who have previously hidden behind the Police would be uncomfortably exposed.

 

The Police did not set out to kill anyone that day, nor did they reasonably believe that the actions they took would do so.

 

Your brakes analogy is flawed. A better one would be that the MOT test which was acceptable then, is no longer acceptable now.

 

For me the cleaner target is, and always has been, the falsification of notebook evidence. Conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. Who ordered this?

 

If the Police had simply said ;“We acted as we had done many times before, this time our luck ran out”, that would have been a pretty defensible position. It was the default closing of ranks and falsification of evidence which has been their undoing, not done in the heat of the moment, but in a cold calculating manner. That is what is unacceptable.

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