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Summer 2013 Transfer Thread


Bjornebye
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So our only choices are pushing high up or sitting deep. Is there no middle ground?

 

Well, given this level of analysis, no wonder you are struggling to see Rodgers' tactical frailties. It's pretty simple, if you want to have your attacking and midfield line pressing the opposition high up the pitch to win the ball back, then you don't have much of a choice than to push your defensive line higher up as well and deploying an offside trap system. Otherwise, keeping you defensive line deep will only leave an enormous gap between the midfield and defense. And, we've seen countless examples last season of attacking midfielders or strikers dropping back finding space in between our midfield and defense, and that's one of the worst place you want the opposition to have the ball. So, in essence you indeed don't have much of a choice if you want to press high up. Keeping the defensive line deep is just idiotic in such an instance.

 

And, you could clearly see that in action with Mourinho against Villa and Hull, or even in our Rafa years. Chelsea had their front line pressing high and their defense pushing up accordingly. Eventually, they then dropped the defense line deeper with the font line also standing off and stopping the high pressing. But, you'll never see Mourinho or Rafa using the two extremes (high pressing and deep defense) at the same time.

 

So, as you'll see, your question is indeed a very poor one. Pushing up or defending deep are largely based upon how you set up the attacking and midfield line. The real two choices, if you want to phrase it as such, are between pressing high and pushing up the defense, or standing off with a low defensive line, certainly not as simply as you put it. And, of course, there's a middle ground, never suggested otherwise. But, it's utterly irrelevant to how Rodgers set us up, isn't it, given his intent in having us play the Barca/Spain way with a high pressing. But, if he does that, then he should go the full way with us defending higher with an offside trap system just like they do.

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If Suarez is linked with Madrid I expect to hear the Echo to be telling us Liverpool are confident of getting Ozil as part of any deal and he is the number 10 Rodgers has been looking for all summer etc etc, followed by a sale and no player, but we were ambitious...

 

...or we'll end up with Madrid's new equivalent of Antonio Nunez.

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My problem is we got lucky with Coutinho and if the owners and fans expect that to be a normal occurrence then they are deluded. I would also say it is far easier to get players to buy into City's plans with a bag full of money for wages etc. It's also worth mentioning Coutinho was good enough to be starting games for Inter in the c/l at 17/18 and even scoring a winner against Bayern.

 

The reality is Liverpool owners and fans are obsessed with value, a player is rarely a bargain when you buy him. Take Ferdinand, Carrick, Ronaldo, Lampard, Drogba etc, people laughed at their fees but in the long-term they have proved their value several times over. I think Dave wrote something on Bale and ultimately that he stayed at spurs and became a success was as much luck than any great plan by them.

 

I hope Rodgers is breaking balls and telling them this.

 

How about giving the scouts and Rodgers credit for saying they got lucky with Couthino?

Does that mean they just got unlucky with the dross?

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Jesus!

 

Fans who have been telling everyone and anyone that we won't sign anyone, its all a ruse, we won't spend any money - are now criticising the club for attempting to sign a player for £18m who is now crocked! Just cherry picking rumours that suit 'Yeah that looks shit, i'll believe that one'.

 

Lets ignore the argument that the reason why Liverpool wouldn't meet the fee is because they felt this knee needed further scrutiny, in fact Liverpool wanted him on loan to make sure - Shalke wanted a fee, so we didn't buy him and that was it - since then Sakho, Ilori, Alderwield and others have been looked at.

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Jesus!

 

Fans who have been telling everyone and anyone that we won't sign anyone, its all a ruse, we won't spend any money - are now criticising the club for attempting to sign a player for £18m who is now crocked! Just cherry picking rumours that suit 'Yeah that looks shit, i'll believe that one'.

 

Who has?

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How about giving the scouts and Rodgers credit for saying they got lucky with Couthino?

Does that mean they just got unlucky with the dross?

 

Meh I give Rafa the credit and Comolli left his files for them to peruse and Rocky is better than Rambo.

 

This was when Liverpool first showed an interest in the player. Benitez had told their director of football, Damian Comolli, that Coutinho was the best young player at Inter and capable of being a big success in the Premier League.

 

BBC Sport - Philippe Coutinho transfer a gamble for Liverpool

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Arsenal are supposed to be after Di Maria and Benzema, if they sell even Benzema maybe Suarez could then go to Real along with Bale? Not sure how any teams are supposed to defend against Ronaldo, Bale and Suarez in the same attack if so. It's too mental to think about, surely that won't happen.

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Guest Numero Veinticinco
We haven't been "chasing him" though, that's just silly.

 

Our entire recruitment team has been following him around with a pen all summer. Nothing else has happened and it's all because of that.

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Well, given this level of analysis, no wonder you are struggling to see Rodgers' tactical frailties.

 

No offence, but if we're trading insults, bringing up an in match thread as evidence is Nightcat levels of dumb, so let's keep this civil shall we?

 

It's pretty simple, if you want to have your attacking and midfield line pressing the opposition high up the pitch to win the ball back, then you don't have much of a choice than to push your defensive line higher up as well and deploying an offside trap system. Otherwise, keeping you defensive line deep will only leave an enormous gap between the midfield and defense. And, we've seen countless examples last season of attacking midfielders or strikers dropping back finding space in between our midfield and defense, and that's one of the worst place you want the opposition to have the ball. So, in essence you indeed don't have much of a choice if you want to press high up. Keeping the defensive line deep is just idiotic in such an instance.

 

And, you could clearly see that in action with Mourinho against Villa and Hull, or even in our Rafa years. Chelsea had their front line pressing high and their defense pushing up accordingly. Eventually, they then dropped the defense line deeper with the font line also standing off and stopping the high pressing. But, you'll never see Mourinho or Rafa using the two extremes (high pressing and deep defense) at the same time.

 

So, as you'll see, your question is indeed a very poor one. Pushing up or defending deep are largely based upon how you set up the attacking and midfield line. The real two choices, if you want to phrase it as such, are between pressing high and pushing up the defense, or standing off with a low defensive line, certainly not as simply as you put it. And, of course, there's a middle ground, never suggested otherwise. But, it's utterly irrelevant to how Rodgers set us up, isn't it, given his intent in having us play the Barca/Spain way with a high pressing. But, if he does that, then he should go the full way with us defending higher with an offside trap system just like they do.

 

I'm sorry, but my question was clearly based on your over simplification of the options open to Rodgers, it was you who failed to highlight any of the finer details or prop up your own argument by stating "Either he plays the high pressing game and push the defenders higher up as well with an offside trap. Or we just sit back and play the deep defensive line."

 

Now that you've gone into some detail there isn't much i'd disagree with as your logic is reasonably sound, although by highlighting Mourinho and Benitez it arguably ignores the single most important factor - quality of players available to the manager.

 

Either way, it doesn't hide the fact that you've based all of this thinking on a falsehood: that Rodgers inherited a solid defensive system (or as you put it, one of the best in the league).

 

He inherited one that let in 40 goals. He took that and turned it into one that let in 43. He did so whilst adding a further 21 goals scored.

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