Is Rodgers becoming a laughing stock?

[Champ]

Dear oh dear, just as I've posted on Dave's match report (I'm blaming you for reading that too!) I wasnt going to let it do this to me again...Woke up Tuesday morning with one of those post match hangovers. I kept away from here because I didnt want to re-live it all again and just as I was starting to shake it off my brother, who'd been at the game with my nephew, texted me and I'm off again

[KopOut]

An argument could be made for giving Rodgers his full term, based on the signing of a contract. However FSG will have their get out clauses. After the treatment of Dalglish for 'poor performance' , I think that if BR can only get us up to 6th or 7th with early exits in the domestic cups, a lot hinges on just how well we do in the Europa. Personally, I believe a second season will make or break Rodgers. Our suspicions will either be confirmed, or proved to be wrong.

[s(k)aturation]

An argument could be made for giving Rodgers his full term, based on the signing of a contract. However FSG will have their get out clauses. After the treatment of Dalglish for 'poor performance' , I think that if BR can only get us up to 6th or 7th with early exits in the domestic cups, a lot hinges on just how well we do in the Europa. Personally, I believe a second season will make or break Rodgers. Our suspicions will either be confirmed, or proved to be wrong.

 

... but apparently, even 2 Cups wouldn't have made any difference to last May's decision, so they'll be changing the criteria?

 

By the way, I agree a second full season will confirm or refute suspicions, just as it should have been allowed to do last year.

[Champ]

Presumably, targets were set for this season, which we have understood to be the league given what happened to the last manager and the earlier talk about CL football. Although Big Cheese phrased it differently, we're just deafened by silence now

[s(k)aturation]

Presumably, targets were set for this season, which we have understood to be the league given what happened to the last manager and the earlier talk about CL football. Although Big Cheese phrased it differently, we're just deafened by silence now

 

That's because they only tell Big Cheese what they're thinking.

[Champ]

That's because they only tell Big Cheese what they're thinking.

 

ITK but not ATK?

[s(k)aturation]

ITK but not ATK?

 

REM, it gives me.

[A_S]

Whilst I understand that Kenny is an LFC legend, so any issues relating to him, not the least of which his seemingly harsh sacking, are going to evoke a fairly emotive response.

 

That said, can people please take a step back and stop using Kenny's results in all competitions and simply applying a +/- approach for everything from league position / points, placings in the cups, etc. when looking at Rodgers' results so far. At least not without looking at some of the key issues that each manager had to deal with.

 

In short, they didn't have the same preparation time before their first full seasons respectively, didn't have the same money to spend (up front, ie to get ready for said full season), didn't have the same players at their disposal and weren't/aren't even in the exact same competitions to make a direct comparison. And I'm not entirely sure that Rodgers is actually on the more favourable side of any of those differences.

 

Rodgers should be judged on a set of criteria based on a reasonable amount of time in the job for him to allow his ideas to come to fruition, by way of both players and tactics. It should have nothing to do with what the previous manager did or didn't do.

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

The club will become (or continue to be) a laughing stock if we keep sacking managers once a year.

[s(k)aturation]

Whilst I understand that Kenny is an LFC legend and so any issues relating to him, not the least of which his seemingly harsh sacking, are going to evoke a fairly emotive response.

 

That said, can people please take a step back and stop using Kenny's results in all competitions and simply applying a +/- approach for everything from league position / points, placings in the cups, etc. when looking at Rodgers' results so far. At least not without looking at some of the key issues that each manager had to deal with.

 

In short, they didn't have the same preparation time before their first full seasons respectively, didn't have the same money to spend (up front, ie to get ready for said full season), didn't have the same players at their disposal and weren't/aren't even in the exact same competitions to make a direct comparison. And I'm not entirely sure that Rodgers is actually on the more favourable side of any of those differences.

 

Rodgers should be judged on a set of criteria based on a reasonable amount of time in the job for him to allow his ideas to come to fruition, by way of both players and tactics. It should have nothing to do with what the previous manager did or didn't do.

 

No probs.

My main point (beyond emotive predispositions to Kenny) is: what they decided on and did with the previous manager might have a disproportionate/compromising influence on their judging the next manager as "reasonably" as they can.

That's the rock and hard place I think they've put themselves in.

And I think it involves a "Dalglish factor/spectre".

And that's also completely putting to one side, whether they're good or reasonable judges at all.

To me, that makes this something of a mess.

[Champ]

I dont know if any of that was directed at me, AS. I am trying to judge Rodgers on his own merits and while I confess to having had my reservations about his appointment I have seen little so far to suggest that those anxieties were ill founded.

 

Equally, I can fully understand that from their own perspective, having been burned once the owners will not be keen to see that happen again

[BCM]

The kicker against Rodgers is the fact that the league position we are told was all that mattered, that the cups werent a priority ( my god how that angers me when i read that).

In which case he is in a very precarious position considering where we are in the league, miles away from champions league qualification.

Zenit and Swansea games could be pivotal.

[Guest ShoePiss]

Whilst I understand that Kenny is an LFC legend, so any issues relating to him, not the least of which his seemingly harsh sacking, are going to evoke a fairly emotive response.

 

That said, can people please take a step back and stop using Kenny's results in all competitions and simply applying a +/- approach for everything from league position / points, placings in the cups, etc. when looking at Rodgers' results so far. At least not without looking at some of the key issues that each manager had to deal with.

 

In short, they didn't have the same preparation time before their first full seasons respectively, didn't have the same money to spend (up front, ie to get ready for said full season), didn't have the same players at their disposal and weren't/aren't even in the exact same competitions to make a direct comparison. And I'm not entirely sure that Rodgers is actually on the more favourable side of any of those differences.

 

Rodgers should be judged on a set of criteria based on a reasonable amount of time in the job for him to allow his ideas to come to fruition, by way of both players and tactics. It should have nothing to do with what the previous manager did or didn't do.

 

Half the time Kenny gets brought because people like to say how much we're improving on last year. I don't have a problem stepping back though.

 

We're out of both domestic cups by January, getting knocked out by Swansea and Oldham, currently 9th in the league where West Brom have done the double over us scoring 5 without reply. Draws against Arsenal and Man City are revered like wins and we're as close to the relegation zone as we are the magical 4th place.

 

So far it's very poor from Rodgers, I hope for everyone's sake we can improve our league position and continue on through the UEFA cup.

[dickie mint]

The kicker against Rodgers is the fact that the league position we are told was all that mattered, that the cups werent a priority ( my god how that angers me when i read that).

In which case he is in a very precarious position considering where we are in the league, miles away from champions league qualification.

Zenit and Swansea games could be pivotal.

 

 

 

Spot on.

[KopOut]

... but apparently, even 2 Cups wouldn't have made any difference to last May's decision, so they'll be changing the criteria?

 

By the way, I agree a second full season will confirm or refute suspicions, just as it should have been allowed to do last year.

 

You'll get no argument from me on that score.

[xerxes]

No.

 

Objectively, novice owners, with a novice MD have appointed a novice manager. Rodgers, all things considered is doing ok. If we had appointed a Capello, Klopp, Van Gaal or even a Redknapp, Martinez or Laudrupp then our expectations should rightfully be higher. But Rodgers, in only his second PL season, his first ever managing in Europe, and his fourth as a manager has not done badly.

 

There has been no exodus of disgruntled stars. Borini was foisted on him by an FSG sweetheart deal with DiBenedetto, Allan is the classic “ear in the dressing room” purchase, a known quantity, as was Sturridge from his Chelsea connections.

 

As a fan, I am dismayed by the cynical dumbing down of LFC management, but that is not Rodger’s fault. The Club is now set up. On and off the field, as an EL qualification challenging outfit, and I think that Rodgers will achieve that goal by league position, which will be an improvement on KK.

[Trucker Paddy]

No.

 

Objectively' date=' novice owners, with a novice MD have appointed a novice manager. Rodgers, all things considered is doing ok. If we had appointed a Capello, Klopp, Van Gaal or even a Redknapp, Martinez or Laudrupp then our expectations should rightfully be higher. But Rodgers, in only his second PL season, his first ever managing in Europe, and his fourth as a manager has not done badly.

 

There has been no exodus of disgruntled stars. Borini was foisted on him by an FSG sweetheart deal with DiBenedetto, Allan is the classic "ear in the dressing room" purchase, a known quantity, as was Sturridge from his Chelsea connections.

 

As a fan, I am dismayed by the cynical dumbing down of LFC management, but that is not Rodger's fault. The Club is now set up. On and off the field, as an EL qualification challenging outfit, and I think that Rodgers will achieve that goal by league position, which will be an improvement on KK.[/quote']

 

Rodgers left Chelsea before sturridge arrived chief!

[s(k)aturation]

Rodgers left Chelsea before sturridge arrived chief!

 

Xerx is on a roll, Trucker.

He has us as a Europa League place contending powerhouse.

Leave him be.

[setreal]

That quiz is pretty stupid. I had never heard of that Brent guy before and got 93%. The quotes of Rodgers and the other dude aren't really similar at all if you have a close look at them.

 

I used to never quite get why people were avoiding footy threads on a Liverpool forum but I understand now. It really has become unreadable.

 

"Giving time", "patience", I guess in the days of the cyberfan this means half a season at most. And then you read stuff like "Klopp woulda this and that". Embarassing stuff.

[zigackly]

I am more or less indifferent to Rodgers, but I think some of the criticism he's getting, in this thread at least, is a little harsh; I wouldn't say he's doing a good job, but I'm not convinced he's doing a particularly bad one either. Certainly, there's been evidence in the past month that had we signed Sturridge in the summer, it would be an entirely different season and the blame for August's miscommunication can't be laid at Rodgers door.

 

That would be fine if he hadn't turned Sturridge down and gone for Dempsey instead. I personally believe that any criticism of a Liverpool manager should be fair and done with respect though, and threads like this are anything but fair or respectful.

[ronnie38]

OK is it time to bring back RAFA

[zigackly]

OK is it time to bring back RAFA

 

Negged.

[Rustyjeffears]

OK is it time to bring back RAFA

 

For me that should have been done last June if Kenny was sacked, which he was.

 

We were in too critical a position to take a gamble on a novice, which looks like backfiring. We may still have time to put it right. Get the next appointment wrong or flog a dead horse for too long and the club could be finished in terms of big thinking for a long time.

[Guest davelfc]

Its a difficult one. Like you said in your previous post they're stuck between a rock and a hard place. When I'm reading post that talk about we need to give him another season at least my heart sinks but what is the choice; sack him and start the whole merry go round again.

 

The knew they were hiring potential, how they allowed him to persuade them to remove the condition of a DoF or similar, I do not know

 

I'm not really a fan of DoF positions generally, but in this case an inexperienced manager as Rodgers could have benefitted from it. True it could have been a complete mess but I don't believe the risk/gamble would have been as high.

 

Having a decent football CEO would have helped, people mention Barwick and someone like that would have made a difference. Someone that could steer the owners and the club, not some flavour of the month though. I make no secret that I dislike Ayre in his current capacity, he's a salesman and a damned good one it appears. No way should he be involved with the football side of things. We're just a business these days, not a football club. When I see players signing new contracts I don't think, great we've secured their services for years, I think the club are just securing the sell on value. I know there's an element of both in that anyway. I guess that sums up how I feel things are at the moment. I'm not saying that I am right.

 

I get that this thread is a nightmare, people have opinions though but as usual if it doesn't suit some they just come in and start shouting people down. I think most of us get that we cannot keep sacking managers, we get that he's inexperienced and we get that we have more than a few problems at the club.

 

As a paying fan, who like many others sits in the fucking freezing cold I am entitled to my opinion (robbieor you reading this?) and NO I won't give it a fucking rest. I don't believe I've anything to give a rest. I think it's worse to be ignorant of the problems than gleefully accept them and be a super fan. Not that I'm suggesting you are.

 

I really want Rodgers to be the man to build something here, I don't believe he will and I am frustrated that the wrong man was appointed and once again they messed it all up. I think more than anything what is coming from me is just pure frustration.

 

If he turns it around then I'll gladly accept these quotes being dug up and being made to look at twat, it's not about me, it's about Liverpool winning. That's all I want.

 

edit: Oh and with our current owners and ceo, bringing back Rafa could be worse.

[Antynwa]

If we sack him this summer we'll become a laughing stock.

 

My concern is that they actually will go and sack him.