Still think we don't need that striker?

[lamai]

Anyone who criticises Borini at this point is a complete cunt, a Chelsea level cunt.

 

Bad injury, not yet match fit, and he wasn't the one who missed a penalty.

 

Our wide players were guilty of not putting the ball in the box early as well, which drew Borini out in search of the ball. Downing was, by far, our most effective wide player last night.

 

He'll score goals, at a rate as well. Where are the starts going to come from though? Suarez plays every game and Sturridge is now undroppable, so...?

 

hard game for him to come to, out injured and pressure straight away. But he should have scored and people saying he needs a chance to show himself. I just can't see anything that he has to offer, he may well be a good player in italy, but I so far cannot see how we are going to make this work for him. Maybe he will but now I do not see what why he was bought.

[A.V.B.]

The abuse he got was quite shocking. People who probably kept their mouth shut for probably 90 percent of the time we're giving him all they had only a few minutes after he entered the pitch. Fucking disgusted about it to be honest.

 

Well said.

[A.V.B.]

Anyone who criticises Borini at this point is a complete cunt, a Chelsea level cunt.

 

Bad injury, not yet match fit, and he wasn't the one who missed a penalty.

 

Our wide players were guilty of not putting the ball in the box early as well, which drew Borini out in search of the ball. Downing was, by far, our most effective wide player last night.

 

He'll score goals, at a rate as well. Where are the starts going to come from though? Suarez plays every game and Sturridge is now undroppable, so...?

 

Again, well said. What hope has the lad really had?

 

He may well be shite but he's not had any chance to prove otherwise for me.

[The Guest]

How about just playing two strikers and getting rid of this Barca style that its pretty evident we are not able to play effectively.Borini then becomes an option if one of our two strikers is injured or playing badly?

 

We are like the Chris Eubank Snr of football without the success. We are crap when having to take the fight to the opponent at home but look quite useful when they attack us away from home. Mind you Eubank's defence was excellent so thats where the analogy stops dead.

 

Sorry Vlad but this is absolute kneejerk bullshit. All season in nearly every game bar the odd one we've been dominating the ball and the game and creating lots of chances. We are employing Rodgers' system very well. We have just struggled to score goals for a number of reasons. Mainly due to the fact that we didn't have an out an out striker good enough for the premier league. Some games Suarez's brilliance would get us through and sometimes it wouldn't. Another main issue was having a lot of young players who naturally haven't scored the goals needed. More recently things started to click and we've been battering teams at home, actually scoring goals as well as doing all the things previous.

 

With the addition of Sturridge we finally had a complete first 11. Apart from the Oldham game it was all going well. Last night was just a repeat of all the bad things that have happened when Sturridge wasn't here. We absolutely fucking battered them and did everything but score. When that happens people start getting desperate and it opens it up for the opposition and it did.

 

Can you not remember how fucking blunt we were under the Benitez regime in the same type of games despite the vastly superior side we had? Doing what Rodgers has had the players doing is the correct thing. We are keeping the ball arguably better than when Benitez was in charge and yet creating even more chances. We just need to sign goalscorers and better players. It's really that simple.

 

It's massively deflating when things happen like last night but if we want to get the club dominating football again we need to have a genuine football idea that is attack minded and it is not going to work overnight especially with the players we currently have at the club. Rodgers has the idea and I'm confident he can get it working he just needs to prove he can sign the necessary players. So far for Sturridge we've also got Borini.

[Kozel9]

I don't know what to think of Borini yet, because i haven't seen enough of him to judge him. People on here always judge fast. Just look at the stick Henderson got, and Lucas. Lucas though was more deserved because he really wasnt that good for a long long period, so he got a chance to prove himself.

 

I like Borinis attitude, and i actually think he could be a regular goalscorer for us if he got a chance in his favourite position instead of playing as a winger, but i don't think he will get an honest chance when Sturridge and Suarez is in the squad.

[Newport]

 

I like Borinis attitude, and i actually think he could be a regular goalscorer for us if he got a chance in his favourite position instead of playing as a winger, but i don't think he will get an honest chance when Sturridge and Suarez is in the squad.

 

He'll get the chance to prove himself in the Europa League. I still think it's too early to write him off when he has barely started any games for us due to his injury.

[VladimirIlyich]

 

Sorry Vlad but this is absolute kneejerk bullshit. All season in nearly every game bar the odd one we've been dominating the ball and the game and creating lots of chances. We are employing Rodgers' system very well. We have just struggled to score goals for a number of reasons. Mainly due to the fact that we didn't have an out an out striker good enough for the premier league. Some games Suarez's brilliance would get us through and sometimes it wouldn't. Another main issue was having a lot of young players who naturally haven't scored the goals needed. More recently things started to click and we've been battering teams at home' date=' actually scoring goals as well as doing all the things previous.

 

With the addition of Sturridge we finally had a complete first 11. Apart from the Oldham game it was all going well. Last night was just a repeat of all the bad things that have happened when Sturridge wasn't here. We absolutely fucking battered them and did everything but score. When that happens people start getting desperate and it opens it up for the opposition and it did.

 

Can you not remember how fucking blunt we were under the Benitez regime in the same type of games despite the vastly superior side we had? Doing what Rodgers has had the players doing is the correct thing. We are keeping the ball arguably better than when Benitez was in charge and yet creating even more chances. We just need to sign goalscorers and better players. It's really that simple.

 

It's massively deflating when things happen like last night but if we want to get the club dominating football again we need to have a genuine football idea that is attack minded and it is not going to work overnight especially with the players we currently have at the club. Rodgers has the idea and I'm confident he can get it working he just needs to prove he can sign the necessary players. So far for Sturridge we've also got Borini.[/quote']

 

Part of the reason we are being let down is that a 3 forward system leaves our midfield exposed as those 3 are joined by another 1 or 2 of the midfield players and we have too many players ahead of the ball and before they recover its far too late.

We also used to have lots of possession with Kenny in charge too remember and also created bucketloads of chances which werent taken, a bit like now until very recently, so its not a knee jerk reaction on my part. Under Kenny we did defend a bit better and that might partly have been because of the system too.

 

We have always tried to play attacking football as well, even under Benitez we were capable of scoring plenty when the right selection was chosen to do so.

 

My overall point is that the 433 Rodgers is so fond of is only successful with excellent teams, Barca and Chelsea under Mourinho spring to mind.

 

Our current squad is nowhere near that standard so lets stop with creating a system that is unsuitable for our current squad and find one that does.

It doesnt have to be a 442, there are plenty of other alternatives that would suit us better.

[Tony Moanero]

We needed another proven goal scorer, possibly a short-term arrangement, if we were going to take the Europa League seriously.

[The Guest]

Part of the reason we are being let down is that a 3 forward system leaves our midfield exposed as those 3 are joined by another 1 or 2 of the midfield players and we have too many players ahead of the ball and before they recover its far too late.

We also used to have lots of possession with Kenny in charge too remember and also created bucketloads of chances which werent taken, a bit like now until very recently, so its not a knee jerk reaction on my part. Under Kenny we did defend a bit better and that might partly have been because of the system too.

 

We have always tried to play attacking football as well, even under Benitez we were capable of scoring plenty when the right selection was chosen to do so.

 

My overall point is that the 433 Rodgers is so fond of is only successful with excellent teams, Barca and Chelsea under Mourinho spring to mind.

 

Our current squad is nowhere near that standard so lets stop with creating a system that is unsuitable for our current squad and find one that does.

It doesnt have to be a 442, there are plenty of other alternatives that would suit us better.

 

To be honest Vlad I was and probably still am to a certain extent a 442 man but since Rodgers has come in I am slowly becoming one of those people that believes the formation doesn't really matter in the long term. As long as you aren't completely gung ho but get enough men in the box when attacking and can still get the numbers back then it doesn't matter.

 

The difference between Benitez's 4231 and the Rodgers 433 is that is that Rodgers is actually playing attacking players in the wide positions and giving them licence to get forward more. We have conceded stupid goals from individual errors there is no getting away from that. The goals from the West Brom game we conceded were simply down to trying to win the game in the later stages and taking risks and it cost us. If we went back and you asked me do we take those risks again? I would say yes because a draw is as bad as a loss in that game.

 

Some of the extra goals we concede over the course of the season will be down to playing more attacking football and leaving more space to be counter attacked but I believe that is acceptable as long as we are getting more at the other end. We have had a long time playing negative football having the best defence in the league etc. In the long run it's proved it isn't the answer to long term success. It's also just fucking boring to watch but I understand not everyone is arsed about that.

 

I honestly don't think a forward 3 is leaving us that exposed anyway. Leiva has been having a fucking mare the majority of the time he has been back so maybe that's why it's looked that way at times but we have been playing well using this system. It's proved in a lot of games it can work a treat. Even in the big games we have been largely unlucky.

[el nino laff]

Still waiting for him to excite me what's going on Brendan?

[VladimirIlyich]

 

To be honest Vlad I was and probably still am to a certain extent a 442 man but since Rodgers has come in I am slowly becoming one of those people that believes the formation doesn't really matter in the long term. As long as you aren't completely gung ho but get enough men in the box when attacking and can still get the numbers back then it doesn't matter.

 

The difference between Benitez's 4231 and the Rodgers 433 is that is that Rodgers is actually playing attacking players in the wide positions and giving them licence to get forward more. We have conceded stupid goals from individual errors there is no getting away from that. The goals from the West Brom game we conceded were simply down to trying to win the game in the later stages and taking risks and it cost us. If we went back and you asked me do we take those risks again? I would say yes because a draw is as bad as a loss in that game.

 

Some of the extra goals we concede over the course of the season will be down to playing more attacking football and leaving more space to be counter attacked but I believe that is acceptable as long as we are getting more at the other end. We have had a long time playing negative football having the best defence in the league etc. In the long run it's proved it isn't the answer to long term success. It's also just fucking boring to watch but I understand not everyone is arsed about that.

 

I honestly don't think a forward 3 is leaving us that exposed anyway. Leiva has been having a fucking mare the majority of the time he has been back so maybe that's why it's looked that way at times but we have been playing well using this system. It's proved in a lot of games it can work a treat. Even in the big games we have been largely unlucky.

 

Having a front 3 has given the 2 wide players, generally Sterling and Downing, a place to hide and this places massive responsibility on to the shoulders of the central striker, Suarez mainly, and he cannot do it all the time.

 

Like I said, 433 isnt a bad formation but we simply havent got the players to make it work at present.

 

The biggest problem we have, as pointed out by Magic Sponge recently is, if you stop our full backs the system is fucked and the opposition have twigged this quickly and we cant do much about it.

[The Guest]

Having a front 3 has given the 2 wide players, generally Sterling and Downing, a place to hide and this places massive responsibility on to the shoulders of the central striker, Suarez mainly, and he cannot do it all the time.

 

Like I said, 433 isnt a bad formation but we simply havent got the players to make it work at present.

 

The biggest problem we have, as pointed out by Magic Sponge recently is, if you stop our full backs the system is fucked and the opposition have twigged this quickly and we cant do much about it.

 

One man directly up front has always done that. It's why I couldn't stand it when Torres was there. I always felt like he has being handicapped by it and not helped by it as everyone else used to think. I didn't like the sound of it when Rodgers spoke about the 433 because nearly every time we ever played "433" in the past it was always a lie. It was 451 or 4231 or some other version of it. Basically where we only had 1 striker and 5 midfielders. This is the first time where the front 3 have been exactly that.

 

I don't think they were necessarily given a place to hide. It's an absolute must that they need to score goals. They haven't and that's partly why we haven't got the points we should have. I agree with you that looking at it now, a few months ago we didn't have the players to play that system as the wide two are not (yet) prolific scorers. I can understand that people may want to use this to blame Rodgers.

 

It's quite easy to counter though. There have been longer complaints that we haven't got the players to play 442 and that's just as understandable. What midfield 2 would you have picked (and with Lucas out remember)? Who would you have partnered with Suarez? With 4231 there is surely the same problems as there is with 433. You need those wide players to score and with playing 4231 there is the added pressure of getting back more. So what formation do you play?

 

Right now we are a different animal. We can play Sturridge up front and Suarez as one of those wide forwards. It makes all the difference. I think Suarez will still get us the goals he does and we have a 15 goal a season striker in the middle. This is where my point on the formations not mattering too much comes in. If you have the players and things aren't working you can change it and try something different. If you don't have the players and it's not working a change of formation can be pointless. We have seen this over the past two games. Without Sturridge we lack balance in the team and it showed up that Suarez still really isn't an out and out striker.

 

The comment about the full backs is a good one. When on form we have two brilliant full backs. We probably have to come to rely on them a little bit. Every team in the league has parts to it like this though.

[KopOut]

To be honest Vlad I was and probably still am to a certain extent a 442 man but since Rodgers has come in I am slowly becoming one of those people that believes the formation doesn't really matter in the long term. As long as you aren't completely gung ho but get enough men in the box when attacking and can still get the numbers back then it doesn't matter.

 

The difference between Benitez's 4231 and the Rodgers 433 is that is that Rodgers is actually playing attacking players in the wide positions and giving them licence to get forward more. We have conceded stupid goals from individual errors there is no getting away from that. The goals from the West Brom game we conceded were simply down to trying to win the game in the later stages and taking risks and it cost us. If we went back and you asked me do we take those risks again? I would say yes because a draw is as bad as a loss in that game.

 

Some of the extra goals we concede over the course of the season will be down to playing more attacking football and leaving more space to be counter attacked but I believe that is acceptable as long as we are getting more at the other end. We have had a long time playing negative football having the best defence in the league etc. In the long run it's proved it isn't the answer to long term success. It's also just fucking boring to watch but I understand not everyone is arsed about that.

 

I honestly don't think a forward 3 is leaving us that exposed anyway. Leiva has been having a fucking mare the majority of the time he has been back so maybe that's why it's looked that way at times but we have been playing well using this system. It's proved in a lot of games it can work a treat. Even in the big games we have been largely unlucky.

 

Whats the point in a forward three when we play the fullback system? The two front flankers are a waste of space, leaving the central striker to do it all alone.

[The Guest]

Whats the point in a forward three when we play the fullback system? The two front flankers are a waste of space, leaving the central striker to do it all alone.

 

Can you clarify to me what the "fullback system" is please?

 

Can you also tell me what a front flanker is as well?