FSG - Time to give them some credit?

[Skidfingers McGonical]

And like clockwork Captain Boring turns up.

[Guest LFD]

They should let the manager sign who he wants, regardless of age.

 

They are.

 

They tried to get Dempsey, they couldn't agree a deal we thought he was worth, so we didn't get him.

 

I like the approach of the club now being more prudent with our funds what we do spend. But they are spending and will get older players, if they are worth what we have to pay.

[Guest San Don]

They are.

 

They tried to get Dempsey, they couldn't agree a deal we thought he was worth, so we didn't get him.

 

I like the approach of the club now being more prudent with our funds what we do spend. But they are spending and will get older players, if they are worth what we have to pay.

 

Its stretching credulity to think that the owners really tried to do a deal for dempsey, mate. We can play the value for money card all we want but the facts are they wouldnt sanction the deal just like they havent sanctioned any deal for a player over 24.

 

So, no buying experience and no buy a bit of spine for the immediate future.

[Guest LFD]

Its stretching credulity to think that the owners really tried to do a deal for dempsey, mate. We can play the value for money card all we want but the facts are they wouldnt sanction the deal just like they havent sanctioned any deal for a player over 24.

 

So, no buying experience and no buy a bit of spine for the immediate future.

 

We made two offers didn't we? One for money, the other involving Henderson in a swap deal (thankfully Henderson rejected).

 

But we wouldn't offer anymore money than we thought he was worth and that includes wages, as he is 29 and wouldn't want small wages.

 

Seems we have learnt from the Joe Cole / Jovanovic past deals, paying massive wages for older players. We offered what we thought he was worth, Fulham declined the offer, we move on!

 

That's how we should do our business.

[Guest San Don]

We made two offers didn't we? One for money, the other involving Henderson in a swap deal (thankfully Henderson rejected).

 

But we wouldn't offer anymore money than we thought he was worth and that includes wages, as he is 29 and wouldn't want small wages.

 

Seems we have learnt from the Joe Cole / Jovanovic past deals, paying massive wages for older players. We offered what we thought he was worth, Fulham declined the offer, we move on!

 

That's how we should do our business.

 

I dont know how many offers we made for him. But if they offered say, £2.5m then £3m does that prove they really wanted him?

 

Didnt Ayre pack up and fuck off home at 8pm on deadline day? Doesnt that indicate how serious they were?

 

At the end of the day we can point to cole, jovanovic and dempsey in different ways as not being value for money.

 

My somewhat laboured point is you dont rigorously enforce a policy at a football club when you're crying out for certain skills or experience. Football doesnt work to those rigid doctrines.

[Guest LFD]

I dont know how many offers we made for him. But if they offered say, £2.5m then £3m does that prove they really wanted him?

 

Didnt Ayre pack up and fuck off home at 8pm on deadline day? Doesnt that indicate how serious they were?

 

At the end of the day we can point to cole, jovanovic and dempsey in different ways as not being value for money.

 

My somewhat laboured point is you dont rigorously enforce a policy at a football club when you're crying out for certain skills or experience. Football doesnt work to those rigid doctrines.

 

Ayre etc packed up when they realised he was going to Spurs, so there was little point stay for no reason.

 

The fee would have been £3 million, but then wages would probably be minimum of 60k, then he'd want at least 3 years, probably a four year deal. Then we get no sell on with him, due to his age.

 

It all adds up and when we get a Coutinho instead who is 20, has a long, bright future in the game, I can see why we are more reluctant to pay much for older players, especially due to our past mistakes and it is not like Dempsey is a world beater or anything.

 

I just wished we pulled out of getting him early, made our last offer a week or a few days before and then moved on to get another target and not leaving us short. But I think they were confident Fulham would panic and accept our offer, the risk we took didn't pay off. But it seems they have learnt from that mistake signing Sturridge on the first day of the transfer window and Countinho with plenty of time before the window shuts.

 

They will make mistakes, but they are showing signs of learning from them.

[Guest San Don]

Ayre etc packed up when they realised he was going to Spurs, so there was little point stay for no reason.

 

The fee would have been £3 million, but then wages would probably be minimum of 60k, then he'd want at least 3 years, probably a four year deal. Then we get no sell on with him, due to his age.

 

It all adds up and when we get a Coutinho instead who is 20, has a long, bright future in the game, I can see why we are more reluctant to pay much for older players, especially due to our past mistakes and it is not like Dempsey is a world beater or anything.

 

He didnt go to spurs untill 11pm on deadline day, some 3 hours after ayres fucked off home. It was so close, he nearly didnt get to WHL for the medical in time.

[TommyW]

They're not Hicks and Gillett so they get credit for that

 

some movement on the ground would be nice

[Skidfingers McGonical]

It was the right decision not to get Dempsey so it is a moot point.

 

Ayre probably went home at 8 because it had been decided that we were not going to go after anyone else (rightly or wrongly) and what would be the point of waiting around in the office till 11pm?

[Guest LFD]

some movement on the ground would be nice

 

Yeah that's their biggest challenge. But at least they have told us what their plan is and the work they are doing.

[Saucepan]

I give them credit for taking a huge risk bying the club in the first place, having to jump trough hoops just to get the club out of the evil claws of the previous owners.

 

And I, unlike some people still believe this season is about building a new team for the future. For me this season was always going to be a throwaway season. Winning any kind of trophy or finishing 4th, for me was always going to be a huge bonus.

 

I see people saying, and I`m paraphrasing here, "We are LIVERPOOL, we should be winnning the league, challanging and for this and that and whatnot".

You know what, as a realist, NO we`re not even close to being ready to challenge a single fucking thing.

 

That being said, I think we have the right ideas with Rodgers but it`s still going to take time. Not only time to build a new squad that plays a new style of football.

But more importantly I thing we`re slowly building new VALUES.

Values like playing for the shirt, giving your all and putting a shift in, playing as a team and not for yourself. All of which help form a winning mentality, something I feel has been lacking in the last fews years. And teaching those kind of values and getting that winning mentality is someting that`s going to take longer then one season, because your basically uprooting the whole fucking thing and putting down a call to arms.

 

Hell, I love this club and I`m in it for the long run so I`ve got time for a couple of more lackluster years, but only if there`s improvement each year. And in my eyes this season has definately been an improvement from last year.

 

To InFiNitY aNd BeYoOoNd !!

[JohnnyH]

It was the right decision not to get Dempsey so it is a moot point.

 

Ayre probably went home at 8 because it had been decided that we were not going to go after anyone else (rightly or wrongly) and what would be the point of waiting around in the office till 11pm?

 

I think some people still think we live in the 1980s and that all business has to be done at the office. I swear to God they don’t even consider mobile phones, the internet, home pcs, home fax machines, etc when commenting on situations like Ayre leaving the office at 8pm.

 

I work from home once every 2-3 weeks. I can manage this feat thanks to my laptop, vpn and my mobile phone. I even have a fax machine at home should the need arise thanks to my home MFP.

 

We clearly had said to Fulham that they agree our deal or the deal was off. If they buckled then Ayre could have happily done the business from the kitchen table. You can also be sure that a junior member of staff hung around until late on just in case. But as the deal was all but off, there was no reason to hang around.

[Kevin D]

Just because a post is long and reasonably expressed does not give it substance.

 

FSG are a credible, solvent, investment group who saved us and will run the club sensibly- and that is about it.

 

Picking up your points. LFC is financially, and by reputation, one of the top ten football clubs in the world. The criticism of Chang was that his experience was wholly insufficient to execute the massive PR role required. That responsibility falls on Ayre and FSG. His departure was an accident waiting to happen.

 

Blaming Cotton for the Suarez debacle misunderstands the Anfield hierarchy. Ayre was in charge, Ayre did not know what to do. Kenny, misguidedly, filled the vacuum, FSG then had to draw a line. It was Ayre’s inexperience which drove the Suarez debacle. That time bomb is waiting to go off again.

On transfers and wages, wisdom and value are preached, but chaos has reigned. KK appointed, sacked, paid off. Chang, appointed, sacked, paid off. Comolli, appointed, promoted, sacked, paid off. The biggest gross transfer spend in our history authorised to modest effect. Whether Countinho at £8.5m rather than Dempsey at £6.5m remains better value remains to be seen.

 

 

 

See above....................................................................

 

Arsenal and Man U are grossing over twice as much money per home game as us. Under FFP revenue counts, stadium expenditure does not. If FSG had authorised the new stadium we would be playing in it next season, or the season after. As it is, site acquisition, planning and construction make a half new, half old, stadium at least five years away, by which time the aforementioned two will have banked the best part of £300m more than us from stadium revenues alone.

 

You are right to point out that commercial revenues have lifted significantly, that is down to Ian Ayre, and that is the job he should be doing, not bumbling around as a trainee MD.

 

My major criticism of FSG is not that they know nothing about football ( they don’t), it is that they have failed to appoint people who do. No world class CEO, no Media/PR expert, no DOF, no non exec football experience on the board, and an inexperienced managerial appointment. I am less excited by that than you.

 

Now of course Rodgers may come good, it may also suit him to have a Board that don’t know too much. But is it really asking too much that a world class football club like ours should not have world class talent in key roles at the club?

 

I agree, entirely. Well, I disagree with your characterisation that they "saved us" as that ascribes some kind of moral intent, when that wasn't and isn't the case, but that's a minor quibble.

 

If people want to suggest that we have spent a good amount in this window then I think that's entirely fair. If they'd like some to acknowledge that the predictions posted over the past 4 months were alarmist and incorrect, then that's fair enough. I would argue there was cause to think that and, again, point to the context this spending happened in, but, I would hold my hands up and say that my predictions were wrong and some of comments I made about Henry weren't accurate. If they want to go even further and say they're happy with the owners, I don't necessarily agree, but we all see things differently, so fair enough.

 

However, if people want to revise history and exonerate FSG's hand picked CEO and his scandalous handling of one of the most damaging affairs in this club's entire history; as well as excusing, actually ignoring, their hand picked DOF's criminal negligence in his transfer negotiations over a 6 month period - well that's their business.

 

Frankly, that's to their shame and it's a discussion I have absolutely no interest in having.

[xerxes]

I disagree with your characterisation that they "saved us" as that ascribes some kind of moral intent, when that wasn't and isn't the case.

 

Fair comment.

 

"FSG spotted a distress sale out of which they could make some money" would have been more accurate.

[Section_31]

I sort of feel sorry for FSG in a way. They bought a club which at face value wasn't far off top four, but then watched our best attacker walk out the door pretty much straight away. They then 'listened to the fans' (which is probably half the problem as half the Twitter ITK knobheads seem to have had their ear at some point) and installed Kenny as permanent manager and bankrolled him massively , unfortunately it went on some of the worst players ever to wear the shirt (The utterly useless Coates looks like the latest name to be comfortably added to that list). Their fingers now burned, we're now going down a more cautious route. But what we need now is what we needed then, a massive repair job, and quality established players. Whether they'll do that again though, is highly doubtfully.

[Guest San Don]

I think some people still think we live in the 1980s and that all business has to be done at the office. I swear to God they don’t even consider mobile phones, the internet, home pcs, home fax machines, etc when commenting on situations like Ayre leaving the office at 8pm.

 

I work from home once every 2-3 weeks. I can manage this feat thanks to my laptop, vpn and my mobile phone. I even have a fax machine at home should the need arise thanks to my home MFP.

 

We clearly had said to Fulham that they agree our deal or the deal was off. If they buckled then Ayre could have happily done the business from the kitchen table. You can also be sure that a junior member of staff hung around until late on just in case. But as the deal was all but off, there was no reason to hang around.

 

LOL!

 

You think you're the only one to have such working methods and practices? We arent all employees you know.

 

Ayre pissed off at 8pm because he knew the deal wasnt going to be concluded. Perhaps you didnt see the part in being liverpool where ayre was leaving the office and turning out all the lights? Yes, there certain was someone junior hanging around in the hope fulham would accept.

[xerxes]

I sort of feel sorry for FSG in a way. They bought a club which at face value wasn't far off top four, but then watched our best attacker walk out the door pretty much straight away. They then 'listened to the fans' (which is probably half the problem as half the Twitter ITK knobheads seem to have had their ear at some point) and installed Kenny as permanent manager and bankrolled him massively , unfortunately it went on some of the worst players ever to wear the shirt (The utterly useless Coates looks like the latest name to be comfortably added to that list). Their fingers now burned, we're now going down a more cautious route. But what we need now is what we needed then, a massive repair job, and quality established players. Whether they'll do that again though, is highly doubtfully.

 

You are too generous.

 

FSG signally failed to support their investment by appointing top quality personnel. They have paid the price, and will continue to do so.

 

They have not had a grip on the finances ( the Torres/ Carroll debacle) and they have failed to deploy their media PR skills (the Suarez affair) their sports media naming rights skills (Werner) or deployed the football/ property skills of investor DiBenedetto regarding the stadium, instead offering him a sweetheart deal on the outrageous Borini transfer terms.

 

They preach prudence, yet have squandered money on KK, Comolli, Jenny, and no one likes to ask them about that £50m stadium provision.

 

They are undoubtedly superior owners to G&H, but they must be laughing their tits off at the number of fans who think that is enough

[Coro]

Out of order. Do one soft lad. You offer nothing to any debate on here. None whatsever.

 

The irony of that coming from someone like you.

 

Should I bump that SoS thread for you, you bad suckhole?

[Coro]

I think if anything the ownership of FSG has shown how many people we have supporting us who seem to have an opinion on absolutely fucking everything, despite how clueless that opinion can seem to be in many cases.

 

They still harp back on the Jen Chang issue like it is some massive mistake that has set us back years. Well it wasn’t. FSG employed a journalist/Economist into a Directors role and his task was to run the communications part of the company. He did this without much noise for a while, but then screwed up in an investigation into a possible leak within the club. He went too far and it cost him his job. End of story. Ask anyone outside of Liverpool fans who Jen Chang is and they wouldn’t even remember. Chang fucked up and it cost him his job. Story over. Dragging this up over and over as some stick to beat FSG just looks daft.

 

The Suarez issue was another debacle in its handling by Ian Cotton. Although I was delighted at the time, the t-shirt thing was a total disaster and it set the agenda. We could have got Johnny Cochrane in from our side and we’d have lost as there was no way the FA were going to say there was no issue to answer and so be called soft on racism. What happened after that with the lack of handshake fucked everything up. Personally, I wasn’t all that surprised that FSG made the call that enough was enough and this had to end. We could have appealed and fought this in some other way, but what would have happened? Nothing other then it getting dragged out more and more and more. The only real solution was to kill it there and then.

 

On the football side, we spent money very badly over the last few years. The Andy Carroll deal could very well go down as the worst transfer in the history of association football when you take the wages and £35m cost of the player and what we are likely to get back for him. We were seen as an easy touch. We are changing that now and I think our refusal to be bent over in the Dempsey deal; the Sigurdsson deal and now the Ince deal has been great. Our hardball in the Coutinho deal by signing him for almost £2m less then another team had bid is very pleasing to see.

 

When I see fans say “for the sake of a couple of million” I cringe. A “couple of million” is more then Joe Allen’s yearly wage. It was more then Suarez’s yearly wage until recently. Turning our nose up at those types of figures are exactly what gets a club into the kind of position we found ourselves at the end of the H&G reign. Comments like that are just not part of the real world.

 

When FSG took over, they arrived with a manager drastically underperforming. Had they been able to then they’d have waited until the summer and replaced him then with whom they wanted then. But the fans were very restless and Hodgson was doing beyond bad so they sacked him with a huge pay off. The biggest payoff we’ve given any manager in our history. Kenny was brought in and massively backed. We can talk about net spend all we want, but the simple fact is they handed the man over £110m.

 

A few simple questions. You think Ian Ayre is doing a decent job. Can you be more specific about that as in what do you think he's doing that is decent?

 

Do you believe Ian Cotton was responsible for the Suarez fiasco?

 

Why do you believe FSG handed a then caretaker manager huge amounts of money and as much responsibility as the DoF they had put in place months earlier? Let's remember both Carroll and Suarez were signed just days after Dalglish was appointed.

 

Do you believe Dalglish, then caretaker manager, had any say in in the moneyball/soccernomics transfer strategy?

[INTORRESTING]

We need a ground or re-development first. We are exceptionally badly managed and they are going to rake in the money when the new tv deal comes in. We need a decent summer outlay and a spade in the ground or some new seats.

 

They haven't done a great deal so far apart from cock up some appointments and appoint a very inexperienced manager. They have spent a bit but we bring in a lot of money as a club and need to bring in far more and make what a club of our stature should.

 

I will re-visit at the end of next season and see where we are.

 

If we get cl on top of the tv money that will bring in a huge amount of money

 

I'm happy , I know they are learning but we need to up our game.

[Neil G]

It's absolutely about time we gave them credit, in fact the constant complaining and bad feeling towards them is tediously unjustified.

 

I also think having a 'Go fuck yourselves FSG' thread is a disgrace to an otherwise decent site and could do with being pulled.

 

 

Ah diddums.

 

What's a disgrace? The fact that I thought FSG should be held to the same standards they demand of others? Or the fact that I objected to them making the club's greatest living servant look like a complete cunt in front of the entire country?

[Coro]

Just fuck off xerxes, you boring, shit at life cunt.

 

Why? He's spot on with his response to that shallow piss JohnnyH number 1 fan offered up.

 

Sorry to interrupt the members party.

[TheHowieLama]

A few simple questions. You think Ian Ayre is doing a decent job. Can you be more specific about that as in what do you think he's doing that is decent?

 

Do you believe Ian Cotton was responsible for the Suarez fiasco?

 

Why do you believe FSG handed a then caretaker manager huge amounts of money and as much responsibility as the DoF they had put in place months earlier? Let's remember both Carroll and Suarez were signed just days after Dalglish was appointed.

 

Do you believe Dalglish, then caretaker manager, had any say in in the moneyball/soccernomics transfer strategy?

 

Aaaaaaaaaannnnnnddddd.......

 

 

[Coro]

read the thread - give it a rest

 

This from some pointless yankee whopper who's never been to Anfield.

 

Oh, the internet.

 

You actually pay for the privilege of 'negging' someone.

 

Do you think you fit in now?

 

If you agreed with my point of view would you be telling me to give it a rest? No, of course you wouldn't.

 

Need a daycare centre for some of these very needy folk.

[TheHowieLama]

This from some pointless yankee whopper who's never been to Anfield.

 

Oh, the internet.

 

You actually pay for the privilege of 'negging' someone.

 

Do you think you fit in now?

 

If you agreed with my point of view would you be telling me to give it a rest? No, of course you wouldn't.

 

Need a daycare centre for some of these very needy folk.

 

You have made some big assumptions there fella. Good luck to your "cause".