Arsenal(a) match thread

[neopulian]

I don't understand why people are being so depressingly down about this result. Yes, we should have held onto the lead, but there were definitely positives to take from this. The learning should be that we need to better handle how to recover the ball when we lose it in our own half. Or giving away silly free kicks just outside the box is dangerous because we're not good defending balls lofted into the box. But surely a lack of concentration or a sloppy free kick should not be interpreted as this team being completely and utterly useless.

 

Not a cause to depress if this was just an isolated incidence. The problem is ever time this team takes the field against a half decent team, I'm dreadful they would concede soft goals -- and more often than not, that fear was realized.

 

Collecting more smallish wingers and forwards will not work toward fixing that problem. But WTF, that's just one man's opinion.

[neopulian]

"Latter years". Meanwhile Brendan has just started. Yes, there are problems. This is when you give him the time to sort it out.

 

I'm not demanding to fucking fire Rodgers right now, not even suggesting it. But over half a season of seeing the same shite over and over, please forgive me that I'm not particularly optimistic about our prospects.

[kalasoma]

Not a cause to depress if this was just an isolated incidence. The problem is ever time this team takes the field against a half decent team, I'm dreadful they would concede soft goals -- and more often than not, that fear was realized.

 

Collecting more smallish wingers and forwards will not work toward fixing that problem. But WTF, that's just one man's opinion.

 

Sturridge doesn't fit the description of a small forward. Quite the contrary. I'm not sure that size has anything to do with the result today. I'd say the goals conceded have been largely due to lack of concentration in the back and holes in our midfield - average height of 6ft 1, I believe.

[Trumo]

Didn't want to tempt fate by suggesting it prior to the match, but now the match is over it doesn't matter. Is there a worse crosser of the ball in the Premier League than Bacary Sagna? Every single time I see him get the ball in promising positions, it doesn't matter whether he's got time and space or not, or whether he can hit it on the run or not, he never beats the first defender.

[kalasoma]

Didn't want to tempt fate by suggesting it prior to the match, but now the match is over it doesn't matter. Is there a worse crosser of the ball in the Premier League than Bacary Sagna? Every single time I see him get the ball in promising positions, it doesn't matter whether he's got time and space or not, or whether he can hit it on the run or not, he never beats the first defender.

 

Sagna and Downing are pretty much matched in this. I wish Downing had been given the sole responsibility of attacking Sagna more. Alas, Downing seems more likely to beat himself these days.

[Guest San Don]

I didn't say he was, i know you're eager to pounce on any mistake you think i make and there was a typo or 2 in the post but its still obvious i didn't mean the first goal.

 

Well sorry but,it read like you were blaming him for the first. If its a typo thing fair enough. We all make mistakes.

 

He was awful for the 2nd goal though, where was the anticipation? where was even the slightest attempt to stop it? he was on his heels switched off.

 

Thankfully it looks like this will be his last season, ill miss the distribution skills but everything else is below the required standard with him nowadays.

 

I dont think he was awful for the second. People confuse critiquing a keeper as slagging him off (l#9 for example).

 

Reina is supposed to be a world class keeper. That means he should be making saves 8 or 9 keepers out of 10 dont make. To stop walcott's shot would have needed a worldie and lighteningly quick reactions. It would be the difference between winning and drawing (in some cases avoiding defeat).

 

I hate to use him as an example of this but schmicheal was excellent at getting to the shots 8 or 9 keepers out of 10 couldnt and keep the ball out the net.

 

I dont think its fair to expect reina to anticipate the shot or be in a position to cut out say a cross at the same time. He has to play the percentages. But having done that, he has to make a move at the ball and not look at it as it goes past him. He does this a little too frequently with shots that are just either side of him.

 

Overall, apart from a few dodgey kick outs, I thought he did well. I wouldnt 'blame' him for the walcott's goal but I do think if he wants to be considered world class, he has to be making these point winning saves.

[torahboy]

Jesus Christ! 'World class'? By who's definition?

 

Don't bother with an answer - I'm fucking off to bed.

[neopulian]

Sturridge doesn't fit the description of a small forward. Quite the contrary. I'm not sure that size has anything to do with the result today. I'd say the goals conceded have been largely due to lack of concentration in the back and holes in our midfield - average height of 6ft 1, I believe.

 

Who said anything about Sturridge? I was alluding to the players we're being linked with, but more particularly, the type of players we are NOT being linked with.

 

Look, perhaps I am a know-nothing knee-jerker with footballing philosophy so different to that of Rodgers I can't see what he's trying to do. But to convince doubters like me, he needs to start getting results against half decent opponents instead of again and again giving away the same frail goals.

[mike23]

At the time I did think that bringing Enrique on to shore things up once we'd already thrown away the 2 goal lead was pretty much a case of closing the stable door once the horse had bolted but I've just read in a report of the game on ESPN's website that Rodgers wanted to put him on much earlier but the substitution got delayed because Enrique had trouble putting on his boots? How difficult is it to put a pair of football boots on or more to the point why wasn't he just already wearing them in case he was needed anyway?

[kalasoma]

Who said anything about Sturridge? I was alluding to the players we're being linked with, but more particularly, the type of players we are NOT being linked with.

 

Look, perhaps I am a know-nothing knee-jerker with footballing philosophy so different to that of Rodgers I can't see what he's trying to do. But to convince doubters like me, he needs to start getting results against half decent opponents instead of again and again giving away the same frail goals.

 

Forgive me, but you said we were "collecting" small forwards and wingers and that this wasn't going to help us solve the problem of conceding "soft goals". I didn't know you were talking about players we're being 'linked' with. I assumed you meant 'collecting' as in purchasing. Still, it doesn't quite make sense to me that you allude to players we don't have (or are being linked with), and then say that this is at the root of the problem. Our midfield looks porous at times this season - it has little do to with their height. Our defenders are conceding soft goals - I put that down to lack of concentration, not so much the size of the defenders. I do agree though that we do need to stop conceding goals.

[JustTosh]

Great match.

 

Once in a while Arsenal plays brilliant football. Today was one of those. To keep them at 2-2 is pretty acceptable. Had the two teams played like this all season it would have been the match for the title.

 

Well done from our lads agaimst a firing Arsenal.

 

Play with the same intensity we might just win against the blue mancs Sunday.

 

Cheers,

Tom

[Coro]

People are having a go at Reina for their 2nd?

 

Seriously?

[neopulian]

Forgive me, but you said we were "collecting" small forwards and wingers and that this wasn't going to help us solve the problem of conceding "soft goals". I didn't know you were talking about players we're being 'linked' with. I assumed you meant 'collecting' as in purchasing. Still, it doesn't quite make sense to me that you allude to players we don't have (or are being linked with), and then say that this is at the root of the problem.

 

The root of our problem is our midfield can't control sh*te when the chips are down. Looking to buy Coutinho and Ince will not fix that.

 

Now, I don't have anything against signing the both of them, but that in combination with complete lack of interest in signing a stud defensive midfielder indicates that Rodgers doesn't see a glaring problem that needs urgent fixing there. He has a different football philosophy, that's fair enough. But it's also fair until his system begins to yield positive results given that reasonable amount of time had passed, doubt in such system is fair game.

Edited January 31, 2013 by neopulian

[Coro]

Reina stood there like his feet were set in concrete, the only movement was his head turning to watch the ball go past him into the back of the net, he could of saved with his legs or at least attempted to if he wasn't so flat footed and switched off in the head.

 

Funny that were now ok with our keeper just standing there and making no effort at all to save the ball thats inches away from him.

 

There you are, spearheading the charge of the retards.

 

How is it possible to try and reason with such fuckwittery.

[KopOut]

There's a lot of moaning about our defense, and how it has gone from 3rd best last season to piss poor this season. The simple reason, is the same reason why we aren't making the most of opportunities in the final third, and the same reason why we still have NOBODY in the box, and a lightweight midfield.

 

The answer to all our problems, is to immediately cease and desist with 4-3-3.

 

4-3-3 isn't working, and tonight, Arsenal turned this game around in the second half by snapping their fingers and making our midfield disappear.

 

4-3-3 is FAILING on two levels.

 

First, from a midfield perspective,our guys are overrun, as soon as the opposition get numbers up, which Arsenal failed to do properly in the first half, but managed brilliantly in the second.

 

Second, from an attacking perspective, our midfield are actually boxed in - Henderson and Gerrard can't run wide, because Downing and Suarez ARE the wide players, playing as wingers, with that lonely Sturridge figure in the middle, but drifting as if he's Luis Suarez. If Gerrard and Henderson pass the ball wide to either Luis or Downing, they (SG and JH) fail to run into the box, because it's not their role, when there are supposedly three strikers up front (ofc, we all know there aren't) - In the second half tonight Gerrard and Henderson ,spent most of the second half deep in defense, and when we finally got possession, they had to do as much running as possible, because Lucas is DCM, and there's nobody else.

 

Finally, the defense have gone from 3rd best last season, to piss poor this season, shipping goals, because the team have gone from 4-4-2, to 4-3-3.. It's the only logical reason; the midfield is barely coping in defense, and has no focus in attack (see above.)

 

Rodger's 'system' is failing, because 4-3-3 is failing.

 

Let's look at the final third. By playing 3 up front, quite wide apart, we're effectively playing a single striker, Sturridge. How are Downing and Suarez supposed to interlink with him when they play as wingers?? Sturridge isn't even taking up a classic striking position, as he roams almost as much as Luis. Take Henderson's lob - there was nothing else on, so he lobbed it. Why wasn't there anything else on? Sturridge was outside the box, so was Suarez.

 

4-3-3 is killing us. We should have gone in at halftime at least 3-0 up, but we fluffed too many chances going forward, and just have no killer instinct. At the moment Sturridge is a waste of space, and it needs to change quickly. Man Utd would have destroyed Arsenal in the first half, they were so crap at the back. we're too timid and lightweight up front.

 

Rodger's 'system' lends itself to 5-3-2, with the use of fullbacks wide, meaning Suarez and Sturridge can cause havoc in the box consistantly, while the likes of Gerrard, Downing and Henderson can feed the box, adding striking support, with the full backs adding that extra dimension wide, as required. We'd still have order at the back with a central three in defense and Lucas in front, leaving us far less susceptible to the counter.

 

That's my five cents worth. 4-3-3 : Ditch it or forget real progress.

[kalasoma]

The root of our problem is our midfield can't control sh*te when the chips are down. Looking to buy Coutinho and Ince will not fix that.

 

Now, I don't have anything against signing the both of them, but that in combination with complete lack of interest in signing a stud defensive midfielder indicates that Rodgers doesn't see a glaring problem that needs urgent fixing there. He has a different football philosophy, that's fair enough. But it's also fair until his system begins to yield positive results given that reasonable amount of time had passed, doubt in such system is fair game.

 

Scoring goals was perhaps our biggest problem last season. Rodgers brought in players who he thinks might help create and/or score goals. The problem with signing a 'stud defensive midfielder' has been needing fixing since we lost Mascherano and never replaced him. We have been linked with a defensive midfielder (Diame) when Kenny was manager. I don't know if Rodgers is looking at a defensive midfielder, or whether he's considered getting one now, but he got Lucas back from injury not too long ago. I still believe we have problems in the defense and that needs sorting out urgently.

[withnail71]

Bit of an odd one really. Why play 4-3-3 if you intend to sit deep for 90 mins ? Henderson had probably his best game for us, Wisdom was all over the place, he will be a great player, but he gives the opposition way too much space on the flanks. I dont think ive ever seen a Liverpool team with so little self confidence. I never thought for a second we would win that game, even at 2-0 up.

[ctkeepercoach]

There's a lot of moaning about our defense, and how it has gone from 3rd best last season to piss poor this season. The simple reason, is the same reason why we aren't making the most of opportunities in the final third, and the same reason why we still have NOBODY in the box, and a lightweight midfield.

 

The answer to all our problems, is to immediately cease and desist with 4-3-3.

 

4-3-3 isn't working, and tonight, Arsenal turned this game around in the second half by snapping their fingers and making our midfield disappear.

 

4-3-3 is FAILING on two levels.

 

First, from a midfield perspective,our guys are overrun, as soon as the opposition get numbers up, which Arsenal failed to do properly in the first half, but managed brilliantly in the second.

 

Second, from an attacking perspective, our midfield are actually boxed in - Henderson and Gerrard can't run wide, because Downing and Suarez ARE the wide players, playing as wingers, with that lonely Sturridge figure in the middle, but drifting as if he's Luis Suarez. If Gerrard and Henderson pass the ball wide to either Luis or Downing, they (SG and JH) fail to run into the box, because it's not their role, when there are supposedly three strikers up front (ofc, we all know there aren't) - In the second half tonight Gerrard and Henderson ,spent most of the second half deep in defense, and when we finally got possession, they had to do as much running as possible, because Lucas is DCM, and there's nobody else.

 

Finally, the defense have gone from 3rd best last season, to piss poor this season, shipping goals, because the team have gone from 4-4-2, to 4-3-3.. It's the only logical reason; the midfield is barely coping in defense, and has no focus in attack (see above.)

 

Rodger's 'system' is failing, because 4-3-3 is failing.

 

Let's look at the final third. By playing 3 up front, quite wide apart, we're effectively playing a single striker, Sturridge. How are Downing and Suarez supposed to interlink with him when they play as wingers?? Sturridge isn't even taking up a classic striking position, as he roams almost as much as Luis. Take Henderson's lob - there was nothing else on, so he lobbed it. Why wasn't there anything else on? Sturridge was outside the box, so was Suarez.

 

4-3-3 is killing us. We should have gone in at halftime at least 3-0 up, but we fluffed too many chances going forward, and just have no killer instinct. At the moment Sturridge is a waste of space, and it needs to change quickly. Man Utd would have destroyed Arsenal in the first half, they were so crap at the back. we're too timid and lightweight up front.

 

Rodger's 'system' lends itself to 5-3-2, with the use of fullbacks wide, meaning Suarez and Sturridge can cause havoc in the box consistantly, while the likes of Gerrard, Downing and Henderson can feed the box, adding striking support, with the full backs adding that extra dimension wide, as required. We'd still have order at the back with a central three in defense and Lucas in front, leaving us far less susceptible to the counter.

 

That's my five cents worth. 4-3-3 : Ditch it or forget real progress.

 

As if you have a clue what you're on about...

[BCM]

Great match.

 

Once in a while Arsenal plays brilliant football. Today was one of those.

 

Your username is quite apt

[Lee909]

Yeah swapping a midfield of three for a two in the middle of the field will stop us getting overrun in the middle.

[Biscao]

Yeah swapping a midfield of three for a two in the middle of the field will stop us getting overrun in the middle.

 

Sorry, mate, he doesn't respond to logic.

 

You are absolutely right of course.

[moof]

I though Reina had a good game, and it would be extremely harsh to blame him for the second goal. However, a world class keeper comes off his line to close Walcott down.

 

We were probably a bit lucky to find ourselves 2 up but you have to see the game out from that position. Very disappointing. Hoping for a better performance against City.

[VladimirIlyich]

Yeah swapping a midfield of three for a two in the middle of the field will stop us getting overrun in the middle.

 

Think its more the balance and shape of those central players rather than saying that we will be any weaker by only playing a central two.

4231 or 4141 or something similar is the way modern formations have evolved.

Teams are set up to play in 4 or 5 lines rather than the traditional 3 and Rodgers will know this. The idea is to get players playing between those traditional lines especially when attacking,which we do quite well to be fair. Its the defensive phases where we struggle and that's probably why 433 is failing a lot of the time,or at least v the bigger clubs.

[xerxes]

4-3-3 : Ditch it or forget real progress.

 

I think it is the players , rather than the system. Under Mourinho Chelsea won the title playing 433.

 

In any case, when we dont have the balll, 433 is 451, when we do it offers attacking options. I have long flet that with the playing staff we have 352 offers us the best options.

[cmuller]

There's lots to be encouraged by from last night but the overriding feeling I had was anger at seeing a Liverpool side fall apart like we did second half.

 

Rodgers has already said we're too quiet a team and in situations like when Arsenal began to put the pressure on it doesn't half show. Everyone, maybe Carragher and Reina excepted, went to pieces the last 25 minutes. Times like that need a few organisers on the pitch/leaders by example to get the team going again and maintain a bit of shape. Carragher does a decent enough job with the defence but in midfield and attack there was nothing.

 

You'd always see Rafa having a word with Alonso to sort things out on the pitch. Rodgers maybe hopes that Allen will be that player in the future. At the moment though, it's something we're badly missing.