Begging

[Bjornebye]

if this thread was a beggar it would have been thrown shit at

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I wish some of you would take your arguments to PM. Hank/NV, you probably need to take a break from the forum also to be fair.

 

 

No ta. The difference is, obviously, I'm not having a mental breakdown.

[Bjornebye]

No ta. The difference is, obviously, I'm not having a mental breakdown.

 

i hate when people say take your arguments to PM. its entertaining when people kick off at each other.

 

hank - FINISH HIM

[Strontium]

I wasn't "starting" on you, I was using your post as an example of how a part of society can be vilified for the actions of one person.

 

 

I wasn't vilifying homeless people, all I was saying is that because you can't guarantee that someone is genuinely homeless, it's best to give money or assistance to a charity, like a shelter or soup kitchen. I don't see where the confusion can have been, because that's pretty much exactly what I said. And then I got called a bigot and dogfucker, again, for it.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

i hate when people say take your arguments to PM. its entertaining when people kick off at each other.

 

hank - FINISH HIM

 

PM'd.

[zigackly]

One thing I would add regarding those that are genuinely homeless.

 

Do you really think they're going to be able to save up the few quid they can make each day to put down as a deposit on a place of their own, get a new suit, attend interviews, get a job and become a regular Joe?

 

A few quid probably gives them enough to get something warm to eat, a few tins and a hit or two of smack to try and numb the pain.

 

Would I want them to spend the money that way? No.

 

Am I going to slate them for it? No fucking chance.

 

This is exactly the point of the thread/OP.

 

So if you thought they were going to spend it on smack would you give them a couple of quid or not? Personally I wouldn't as I would begrudge lining the pockets of some scumbag dealer. If I thought they would get something to eat I might.

 

It isn't about slating them for being in that situation.

 

Very few homeless people I encounter take smack to be honest. Maybe five percent going from the assessments I've done. Quite a lot of them drink. I would drink too if I was out on the streets. A few quid a day would be nice for most of the ones I know, Col. They will spend a few hours a day just walking around looking for "street tobacco" (dog ends to you or me) so they can smoke, but that's ok because they need to walk for a few hours a day to get to whichever drop in or soup kitchen will feed them that day. None of the fellas in my shelter beg, that I'm aware of. They like it when people leave out any rubbish with decent scrap metal or cable in it though. That's worth a tiny bit. They all used to used to have jobs and homes and families, just like you and me. Hearing some of their stories is heartbreaking, but I think on the whole it's harder for me to see some of the attitudes people have towards them.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Very few homeless people I encounter take smack to be honest.

 

They do still have AIDS though, yeah?

[Juniper]

 

No ta. The difference is' date=' obviously, I'm not having a mental breakdown.[/quote']

 

Yeah, you behave completely normal on here.

[zigackly]

Triple post. This forum has AIDs.

[zigackly]

I wasn't vilifying homeless people, all I was saying is that because you can't guarantee that someone is genuinely homeless, it's best to give money or assistance to a charity, like a shelter or soup kitchen.

 

In general I agree with this, but the worst cases are probably the ones who don't get it together to take advantage of those services, so I am not about to tell anyone not to help someone they encounter on the street if they feel they want to.

[zigackly]

I wasn't vilifying homeless people, all I was saying is that because you can't guarantee that someone is genuinely homeless, it's best to give money or assistance to a charity, like a shelter or soup kitchen.

 

In general I agree with this, but the worst cases are probably the ones who don't get it together to take advantage of those services, so I am not about to tell anyone not to help someone they encounter on the street if they feel they want to.

 

Not all homeless people are beggars or vice versa though. You're right there.

[Code]

I have no problem with the man. I have a problem with a system that says a bloke with his own car, and a stomach complaint deserves for me, the tax payer. to buy the cunt a car.

 

So why do you walk his dog?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Yeah, you behave completely normal on here.

 

JUST FUCK OFF AND FUCKING FUCKING ARGH.

[Bjornebye]

this threads giving me a lob on

[zigackly]

Sorry about the triple post. Forum went bang.

[Code]

But why is the lizard walking his dog 3 miles every day, especially as he has tried to pont out his legs are A1 as he described them and better than his?

 

I cant be the only one wondering about that.

[chauncey]

Ever since silverlining was KIA Stronts has been off the leash, so to speak. Fucking dogs left, right and centre.

[Joe Le Taxi]

[Skidfingers McGonical]

I wasn't vilifying homeless people, all I was saying is that because you can't guarantee that someone is genuinely homeless, it's best to give money or assistance to a charity, like a shelter or soup kitchen. I don't see where the confusion can have been, because that's pretty much exactly what I said. And then I got called a bigot and dogfucker, again, for it.

 

To be fair it wasn't clear exactly where you were coming from, your post to me came across as sneering at all homeless.

 

It was quite judgemental in my opinion.

 

Particularly this bit

 

A lot of my illusions were shattered about 10 years ago when I saw one beggar, who regularly used to pester me on the way to work, sidle off into an alcove and whip out a better mobile phone than the one I had.

 

Some while later I saw this person getting a delivery of dog-eared Big Issues from a dodgy looking geezer. Likely part of an organised criminal gang.

 

There is a girl and fella in town, or was, who used to do it on a daily basis by Lime Street, yep they were smackheads, but would only ever ask for 15p. Now you think you ask 600+ a day outside Lime Street 7 days a week, that is £90 a day at least. As long as they aren't robbing shops or houses I would give them that 15p.

 

I would rather they were not using smack but as long as they are not stealing then I don't see the issue.

[melons]

Saw something tonight that I haven't seen in a long time and it quite disturbed me. Went to the local supermarket and there was a guy huddled up near the trolley park begging with a little cap. The guy was shaking like a leaf, may have been from cold as it was below freezing, or something else.

 

The guy looked like a smackhead so I didn't give him anything and went into the shop. As I walked around the shop I began to feel more uneasy and wondered if I had rushed to judgement.

 

I find it quite upsetting that in one of the worlds richest countries we still have people in these situations. That said, I really get pissed off when I see these new age hippy type professional beggars - completely with mangy looking cur - basically scamming people for money.

 

The problem is how to tell the difference between someone who really needs help and someone who isn't as deserving.

 

The last time I saw anything like this was in Thatchers Britain not long after they introduced "care in the community", a misnomer of criminal proportions if ever there was one. I was working in that there London so had seen a fair few people begging for money. But one has stuck in my mind ever since, a relatively young man slumped in a doorway wrapped in a piece of cardboard - if you imagine Harry Potter semi-concious that should conjure up the right image - but totally oblivious to the hundreds of people walking past him and making no attempt to engage with anyone. It was clear to me that this guy needed help but I didn't know how so, like everyone else, I just walked away to my eternal shame.

 

It was good to see that Angel Rangel did something positive down in Swansea recently but what can the man in the street do to help these people? Should we try to help them?

 

 

Errrr quite simple really - its my money. I have to make the decision whether to drop some of my money in his hat or buy him something to eat with my money or walk straight past him and keep my money in my pocket.

 

Yes, it is your money and you're to do with it as you see fit, however you started the thread.

 

The guy looked like a homeless smack head - you alluded to the fact he wasn't deserving of any of your money. I doubt a couple of quid would get him far, i would also rather he had a hot meal instead of a hit, however if that couple of quid provides him with an escape from the life he is living I'm not going to condemn him for it. There is a guy i see on a regular basis that's homeless, he's a drunk, stinks and is a right moody cunt, i never give him money, I do however pass on a sausage roll or bag of chips. I'm still spending my money. It is my choice, some may see him as 'undeserving', i like to hope that one day his shit will come together.

 

My point goes to the "deserving poor and undeserving poor", who are we to decide? I'm pretty sure almost nobody would chose that lifestyle in the middle of winter. However they've landed in that position, it is not one i would chose and if by not buying a paper that day I've handed someone a bag of chips then i know where i would rather that money went. Smack head or not.

 

 

What are you talking about? What the hell is going on here?

 

A lot of my illusions were shattered about 10 years ago when I saw one beggar, who regularly used to pester me on the way to work, sidle off into an alcove and whip out a better mobile phone than the one I had.

 

Some while later I saw this person getting a delivery of dog-eared Big Issues from a dodgy looking geezer. Likely part of an organised criminal gang.

 

If you want to help the needy, give money or assistance to a charity. They'll be the experts in discerning who is genuinely in need and who isn't.

 

Begging ain't what it used to be though. My girlfriend was in Italy and couldn't finish her pizza so she gave most of it to a vagrant, who grumbled and then proceeded to remove the toppings they didn't like. So I suppose beggars can be choosers nowadays.

 

I wasn't vilifying homeless people, all I was saying is that because you can't guarantee that someone is genuinely homeless, it's best to give money or assistance to a charity, like a shelter or soup kitchen. I don't see where the confusion can have been, because that's pretty much exactly what I said. And then I got called a bigot and dogfucker, again, for it.

 

It came across that you were demonising a whole portion of society based on those initial experiences.

[Code]

I walks three miles every afternoon with his dog, then drives into town pull his fucking blue badge out and park on double yellows.

 

His legs are fucking A1 though,

 

He isn't fucking ill at all, he recovered and can walk further than me.

 

 

nastylizard could you explain this a bit further please?

 

Are you walking his dog so you can borrow his blue badge and park on handicap spaces in town?

[zigackly]

My point goes to the "deserving poor and undeserving poor", who are we to decide? I'm pretty sure almost nobody would chose that lifestyle in the middle of winter. However they've landed in that position, it is not one i would chose and if by not buying a paper that day I've handed someone a bag of chips then i know where i would rather that money went. Smack head or not.

 

You're dead right. Nobody chooses to be homeless.

[Champ]

Anyone read Stuart: A life Backwards?

 

Stuart: A Life Backwards: Amazon.co.uk: Alexander Masters: Books

 

Homesless isnt the problem its a symptom of far more complex problems

[General Dryness]

nastylizard could you explain this a bit further please?

 

Are you walking his dog so you can borrow his blue badge and park on handicap spaces in town?

 

Looks like it was just a misprint. Where he's put "I walks" I think he meant "He walks".

 

Unless he's from Somerset.

[RedRazor]

Yes, it is your money and you're to do with it as you see fit, however you started the thread.

 

The guy looked like a homeless smack head - you alluded to the fact he wasn't deserving of any of your money. I doubt a couple of quid would get him far, i would also rather he had a hot meal instead of a hit, however if that couple of quid provides him with an escape from the life he is living I'm not going to condemn him for it. There is a guy i see on a regular basis that's homeless, he's a drunk, stinks and is a right moody cunt, i never give him money, I do however pass on a sausage roll or bag of chips. I'm still spending my money. It is my choice, some may see him as 'undeserving', i like to hope that one day his shit will come together.

 

My point goes to the "deserving poor and undeserving poor", who are we to decide? I'm pretty sure almost nobody would chose that lifestyle in the middle of winter. However they've landed in that position, it is not one i would chose and if by not buying a paper that day I've handed someone a bag of chips then i know where i would rather that money went. Smack head or not.

It came across that you were demonising a whole portion of society based on those initial experiences.

 

"Deserving poor and undeserving poor" is not what was written and it is to your great shame that you have presented it as a direct quotation.

 

It stated "The problem is how to tell the difference between someone who really needs help and someone who is less deserving". I give quite clear examples of which I believe fall into each category.

 

You have demonstrated your saintly credentials to one and all so feel free to gather the homeless and wanton to your ample breast and line the pockets of your local drug dealers. The fact that the drugs/alcohol you are helping them to buy will eventually kill them can be glossed over so that all can bathe in the reflected glory of your wonderousness. All this for the price of a bag of chips.