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I just don't get the desire to write him off. I mean' date=' it's only a few having a pop at him, trying to make out that he hasn't played well at all in the last few months, but he has done so in patches.

 

When he was let off the leash against Sunderland, I thought he was superb. When he had attacking options ahead of him - quite important for a midfielder wanting to pass the ball forward - against United he was brilliant again.

 

I'm really looking forward to seeing him over the next 5-6 years.[/quote']

That's been my argument regarding the whole of the midfield-including Downing and Henderson. They are more focused with striking options ahead of them. In Allen's case though, he's no holding midfielder - BR has said as much by indicating we'll see a better player when he gets forward, but he (BR) still persists in playing him deep. The fact is Lucas gives far better cover. The bottom line is, that fifteen million would have been better spent on Sturridge or an equivalent at the start of the season, when u consider that we already have Gerrard, Suarez Suso and Shelvey as attacking midfielders. Once again, BR's lack of pedigree shows up.

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I was glad we got Allen when we got him, because someone else would have and he'll be fantastic.

 

Sometimes players like that get made to look like twats when player movement around them is poor. Sometimes Allen has been guilty of trying to pick a pass to someone else in midfield when he's under pressure when he should go back to the defence.

 

Put it this way, Allen would be at home in the Barca set up, I firmly believe he's a high quality player.

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Guest Numero Veinticinco
I was glad we got Allen when we got him' date=' because someone else would have and he'll be fantastic.

 

Sometimes players like that get made to look like twats when player movement around them is poor. Sometimes Allen has been guilty of trying to pick a pass to someone else in midfield when he's under pressure when he should go back to the defence.

 

Put it this way, Allen would be at home in the Barca set up, I firmly believe he's a high quality player.[/quote']

 

The problem with posters like Kop 'play Andy Carroll as a defensive midfielder and drop that lazy Suarez' Out is they can't see more than a few minutes down the road. He has shown some real talent, even though he has been played out of position. I'm glad we've got him, because his career will be built on much more than just these last few months.

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I was glad we got Allen when we got him, because someone else would have and he'll be fantastic.

 

Sometimes players like that get made to look like twats when player movement around them is poor. Sometimes Allen has been guilty of trying to pick a pass to someone else in midfield when he's under pressure when he should go back to the defence.

 

Put it this way, Allen would be at home in the Barca set up, I firmly believe he's a high quality player.

 

yeah fuck xavi off, lets see if they will do a swap. allens too good for us.

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The problem with posters like Kop 'play Andy Carroll as a defensive midfielder and drop that lazy Suarez' Out is they can't see more than a few minutes down the road. He has shown some real talent, even though he has been played out of position. I'm glad we've got him, because his career will be built on much more than just these last few months.

 

He has shown an enthusiasm going forward; something we already have in spades. I can see further down the road than you can imagine. I've been watching football for 50 years - I've seen players and managers come and go, and I can tell you now, unequivocally, Allen wasn't needed, and the fifteen million pounds would have had a striker a lot earlier (even assuming Carroll was staying put and going to feature in the squad) and quite possibly, we'd be well cemented in the top four, having scored more goals, and been more solid at the back, conceding fewer, with Henderson debutising for Lucas until fit, then being thrown forward on his return.

 

Contrary to what other fans think of Henderson, he was and is more capable than Allen both going forward and holding back, and would have been a better first choice for the missing Lucas, the fifteen million spent on a replacement or addition to Andy Carroll.

 

The manager is entitled to do what he likes, and all managers spend according to their 'whim/allowance ratio'...including Rafa and The King. Nobody is perfect. You think Allen is special, I don't. You think he is useful, I don't. I think Henderson has talent, you don't; I think Henderson is very useful, you don't.

 

Welcome to the dance.

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He will be fine next season.He will be the new Henderson.

 

Not a great endorsement for me! As much as Henderson has improved I've yet to see him play a game that makes you think he's got enough to be first choice in a Liverpool side a few levels above where we are now.

 

Spending £30+ on the two wasn't good business as I struggle to see where they fit in a midfield containing Gerrard and Lucas as first picks.

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I can see further down the road than you can imagine.

 

Read that aloud to yourself, Sauron.

 

 

I think Henderson has talent, you don't; I think Henderson is very useful, you don't.

 

Wrong.

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The fact that Allen is supposed to be better going forward is disconcerting, seeing as he has looked clueless in the attacking third in terms of shooting and passing.

 

12/13:

Joe Allen: 24 starts, 0 goals, 0 assists

 

Jordan Henderson: 15 starts, 2 goals, 4 assists.

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12/13:

Joe Allen: 24 starts, 0 goals, 0 assists

 

Jordan Henderson: 15 starts, 2 goals, 4 assists.

 

Not fair at all as Allen was the holding midfielder for virtually all the games Lucas was injured and at times was doing the defensive duties of 2.

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Not a great endorsement for me! As much as Henderson has improved I've yet to see him play a game that makes you think he's got enough to be first choice in a Liverpool side a few levels above where we are now.

 

Spending £30+ on the two wasn't good business as I struggle to see where they fit in a midfield containing Gerrard and Lucas as first picks.

 

Don't agree with this at all. I think Henderson has the tools to be a top class player. He has an excellent first touch, sees passes early, releases the ball often with one touch, has excellent crossing ability, has a haymaker of a shot and presses the opposition probably better than anyone else in our team. The tools are there, he just needs the confidence to use them.

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That comparison would all be lovely and meaningful Frode if they were playing the same position. I'm sure both will prove to be good players for us.

 

They are both playing in midfield though.

 

The acceptance among some Liverpool fans that its okay for any midfielder to not contribute going forward just because he has a deeper starting position is strange, I call it the Lucas syndrome.

 

People are so intent to make excuses for him they now actuallty believbe its okay for midfielders to not score goals, like ever.

 

You are not in this category though obviously.

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They are both playing in midfield though.

 

The acceptance among some Liverpool fans that its okay for any midfielder to not contribute going forward just because he has a deeper starting position is strange, I call it the Lucas syndrome.

 

People are so intent to make excuses for him they now actuallty believbe its okay for midfielders to not score goals, like ever.

 

You are not in this category though obviously.

 

Alonso is my favorite holding midfielder, how many goals and assists does he have in the entire time he was at Liverpool?

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Don't agree with this at all. I think Henderson has the tools to be a top class player. He has an excellent first touch, sees passes early, releases the ball often with one touch, has excellent crossing ability, has a haymaker of a shot and presses the opposition probably better than anyone else in our team. The tools are there, he just needs the confidence to use them.

 

My take on that is he still just gets rid of the ball rather than picks the best option the vast majority of times. He hasn't shot regularly enough to make any decision whether he is a consistent clean striker of the ball. He does close space down but his lack of desire to stick a determined foot in to actually win the ball rather renders all the effort in getting there a bit pointless.

 

I'm not saying he isn't improving but there are things you can't coach, teach or develop like aggression and a bit of arrogance/belief that doesn't make your head drop when things are going against you. After a year and a half being here I still don't see those qualities in Henderson. There's a determination to succeed but not that something extra by which you can identify top quality players.

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My take on that is he still just gets rid of the ball rather than picks the best option

 

Again, I don't agree. He looks for the best often and if it isn't there he'll elect to retain possession rather than risk threading the eye of a needle. I've seen enough from him to suggest this is prudence rather than cowardise. When the killer pass is on he takes that option.

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They are both playing in midfield though.

 

The acceptance among some Liverpool fans that its okay for any midfielder to not contribute going forward just because he has a deeper starting position is strange' date=' I call it the Lucas syndrome.

 

People are so intent to make excuses for him they now actuallty believbe its okay for midfielders to not score goals, like ever.

 

You are not in this category though obviously.[/quote']

 

I don't think it's that much of a problem. Didi was one of the best midfielders we've had in the past 20 years, and how many goals has he scored? Xabi has hardly scored any goals for Madrid since his move, but he's still one of the best midfielders in the world.

 

To isolate goalscoring as the key quality in a midfielder is wrong. You have to consider what else do they bring in to the table. Didi brought supreme game intelligence enough to nullify the best of them e.g., Kaka and Rivaldo at their very best. Xabi brought a superb playmaking ability.

 

Before his knee injury, Lucas was showing signs that he could develop to be a similar player to Didi, like in that game against City when he destroyed Yaya Toure arguably the best midfielder in the league for the past 2 years. He hasn't shown anywhere near that form since his return, but I'm willing to give him the chance.

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They are both playing in midfield though.

 

The acceptance among some Liverpool fans that its okay for any midfielder to not contribute going forward just because he has a deeper starting position is strange, I call it the Lucas syndrome.

 

People are so intent to make excuses for him they now actuallty believbe its okay for midfielders to not score goals, like ever.

 

You are not in this category though obviously.

 

Obviously :) Allen is a much more dynamic player than Lucas imo - and I've no doubt he will bring more to the team when he's up to speed. He's not playing well at the moment, but I am sure he'll learn and improve over the next few years. Henderson was pretty woeful when he arrived - in fact he regressed, I think he was overawed. Lucas was terrible when he arrived too, but he was younger and needed to be coached into the position.

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I don't think it's that much of a problem. Didi was one of the best midfielders we've had in the past 20 years, and how many goals has he scored? Xabi has hardly scored any goals for Madrid since his move, but he's still one of the best midfielders in the world.

 

To isolate goalscoring as the key quality in a midfielder is wrong. You have to consider what else do they bring in to the table. Didi brought supreme game intelligence enough to nullify the best of them e.g., Kaka and Rivaldo at their very best. Xabi brought a superb playmaking ability.

 

Before his knee injury, Lucas was showing signs that he could develop to be a similar player to Didi, like in that game against City when he destroyed Yaya Toure arguably the best midfielder in the league for the past 2 years. He hasn't shown anywhere near that form since his return, but I'm willing to give him the chance.

 

Oh lawd.

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