Rodgers In

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I wondered as I was writing it if judgement was possibly the wrong word, as it's fairly obvious for me that this season was mainly transitional.

 

If anything concerns me about Rodgers it's that the scale of the transition is such that it masks his performance, and we end up continually suspending judgement on a manager with no track record to give us a nice fuzzy feeling that it will all work out ok.

 

I have been encouraged in some regards, but one thing that stands out for me is that we didn't get a "new manager effect" out of the squad and therefore it's very difficult to maintain belief amongst some very ordinary results this season and an achingly slow change in style.

 

I think there are twin pressures on any new manager: to develop his own style whilst still getting the best out of what you have. I don't think Rodgers has got the best out of what he has, and I haven't seen a distinct style emerge, so I would say it's not been promising in any regard for me yet.

 

I'm not clueless enough to suggest that things can't improve, but we are being asked to make a large suspension of disbelief, and that makes it very difficult to predict how it will work out.

 

I'd say at this point there is little more evidence that Rodgers has what it takes than when he first walked through the door, and that's a concern in itself.

 

 

I know you're on board the 'give him a bit of time' bus, so I wasn't picking you up on it. Just offering the time he has actually been here. Your concerns are valid, in my opinion. I just question whether it's fair to expect too much change just yet. Thanks to the handy 'how old am I' thing Google came up with, it's 26 weeks since his first competitive game.

 

When you put it like that - just 26 weeks - it's really striking how little time he has had here. He has purchased four first team players (Borini, Allen, Sturridge, Coutinho) in his stint. That's a fair number of players to change a team's fortune, but if you look at how many starts those players have had, it becomes even more illustrative of why there hasn't been a massive upsurge in form from the previous manager.

 

Four major signings. One hasn't started any games at all because he was signed last week and the first time he could have possibly played is today. Borini has started five league games (one of which he was injured and taken off at half time) and Sturridge has started 2 league games. So of his three attacking signings, they've put in an average of just two league starts. It's only Allen who has really come into the team. Considering how many attackers went out of the team, in Kuyt, Carroll, Bellamy and Maxi (even if they were poor, the only thing worse than having some strikers who aren't scoring enough goals is having no strikers scoring no goals), you have to ask whether just one midfield player is enough for the manager to turn things around dramatically. Any manager, actually.

 

So I'm not saying give him time because he's the love of my life, but because he has hasn't had the chance yet. 26 weeks, and three attacking signings who have started an average of just over two games each. That's not enough yet. It's certainly not enough for him to take all this flack from our own fans, in my opinion. It's just not what Liverpool fans should be doing. Again, that's just my opinion.

 

I have made a prediction that I think he'll be good, but the bottom line is if he gets the time, gets the money, but the team is still languishing mid to upper-mid table, then he has to be questioned about whether his vision for the future of the club is the right one. If it's not, off he'll pop. If he is isn't right for the club, I'll not shed a tear; the guy's not my uncle.

[stringvest]

young = cheap. Cheap to hire, and cheap to offload. They've taken a lot of money out of the operating costs, they've (depending on who you believe) got some sort of plan and approval for extending the ground, and they've got a lot more TV revenue and some more commercial revenue coming in. They did misjudge the impact FFP would have though. Given that the omens on the playing side and the overall commercial outlook associated with the brand aren't great, then I would say that now is the ideal time to sell.

 

If only they could find a buyer.

[Gym Beglin]

I'd give Rodgers the bulk of another year to see if things are working.

 

If we're still struggling to get the midfield working in 6 months, then it's all over. What with player turnover, will we always have to wait 12-18 months for a new midfielder to settle in?

 

We're looking for a team with the ability to change players and for it not to be an utter disaster when we do so. If you dont factor in a high turnover of players into your management strategy, at a club like ours, then you're not fit to be manager. We are still rich pickings for the top clubs, we cant rely on keeping our best players from one season to the next. That's not opinion, that's fact, see Alonso, Owen, McManaman, Benayoun, Torres, Mascherano, only a miracle stopped Gerrard (twice), and we even sold Ian Rush at age 26, and Fowler at age 26, considered their prime.

 

We're not a 'selling club' by any means, but everyone has their price.

 

So, to build a team around Suarez, or Gerrard, is just unacceptable at this level, for the money we're throwing around. I expect to see better than this in 12 months time.

[etho]

Even if we lose, and we're 10 points off 4th by the end of today, if you look at the rest of our fixtures between now and the end of the season, and compare them with Spurs and Arsenal's, I think it will be a lot closer than that come the end of the season.

[zigackly]

Good post there, Numero. Barring some kind of disaster, I would definitely give him at least half of next season.

[Gym Beglin]

I dont think this season was ever about coming 4th, and I accept that.

 

This season is about next season. So Rodgers better be using his time wisely, because the honeymoon will be over come August.

 

I want Rodgers to succeed, as much as because it;s embarrassing to keep changing managers like we do, but I also like this caricature he has created. However, I'll feel like a complete twat if it turns out he was indeed just a snake oil salesman and I fell for it.

[zigackly]

I want Rodgers to succeed, as much as because it;s embarrassing to keep changing managers like we do, but I also like this caricature he has created. However, I'll feel like a complete twat if it turns out he was indeed just a snake oil salesman and I fell for it.

 

I think snake oil salesman would be a bit harsh. He has to have self belief and to be able to put a positive spin on things; it's part of the job description. If he doesn't work out, it would represent a big gamble by the club which didn't pay off, and that wouldn't be entirely his fault. It would have been an insane decision on his part to turn the job offer down.

[Bobby Hundreds]

I've stil got no idea if Rodgers is good or bad. I don't think we have improved much if at all. I think like most managers he tries to be too clever and like nearly all managers I hate the whole proud of my players for putting in the effort speeches, I fucking expect players to try and win a game not be proud of them because they did try in the end. But all managers waffle that bollocks. I honestly think our players are underachieving and have done for a few years, losing to them is just one of those things, they are constantly given the excuse of learning. I think Suarez showed it the other day in his different more defensive role that good footballers with a competitive attitude adjust quickly because at the end of the day football is football and just because the formation or style is different it doesn't mean you forget basic skills such as passing and shooting.

 

What I do like about Rodgers is it seems you have to earn your shirt, a run of poor games sees you out the team and that's how it should be, like natural selection.

 

Next season is when he'll start solidifying my opinion on him be it good or bad and his signings will be crucial.

[Gym Beglin]

I think snake oil salesman would be a bit harsh. He has to have self belief and to be able to put a positive spin on things; it's part of the job description. If he doesn't work out, it would represent a big gamble by the club which didn't pay off, and that wouldn't be entirely his fault. It would have been an insane decision on his part to turn the job offer down.

 

I accept all that. As Rodgers himself says, its all part of the dance.

 

Credit to Rodgers, as a theory, I believe in the whole 4-3-3 and death by football approach. But I tend to change my mind on theories based on how they apply to real life situations. We seem as far away now from working out how to apply 4-3-3 to our team than we did in the first month of the season. We went to 352 against Arsenal for fear of a bumming. What does that say about death by football and all that?

 

Winning games by the genius of Suarez is not compelling evidence that 4-3-3 works. We could be playing 2-2-3-2-1 and Suarez would still be winning games at times.

[zigackly]

As Rodgers himself says, its all part of the dance.

 

I absolutely detest that phrase by the way, but at least he didn't completely pull it out of his arse like "false winger" the other day.

[Gym Beglin]

I think Suarez showed it the other day in his different more defensive role that good footballers with a competitive attitude adjust quickly because at the end of the day football is football and just because the formation or style is different it doesn't mean you forget basic skills such as passing and shooting.

.

 

Too right. Just like I dont accept Gerrrad being shite at times because he isnt playing behind the striker. No, not an excuse, you are that good a player that we could play you at left back and I still expect you to be one of the best players on the pitch against any opposition.

 

Glen Johnson's played everywhere and been class. Class is class.

[BCM]

I absolutely detest that phrase by the way, but at least he didn't completely pull it out of his arse like "false winger" the other day.

 

 

Glad im not the only one.

[BCM]

I don't agree with the notion of just giving Rodgers time regardless of what he does or doesn't do over the next few months.

 

Where Rodgers differs from previous managers, and many managers of big clubs, is that he's thoroughly unproven. Bear in mind his only achievment in football is avoiding relegation.

 

If a manager has achieved something in the game then you've more reason to sit back and give them that space, if it's taken them three years on average to build a capable side then a year or two years in and you're still average, by all means, give him that other year. But if he hasn't then why would you? Bearing in mind that the longer you wait without success and the longer you're shit, the more difficult the damage is to fix when you do appoint someone else.

 

Rodgers is undergoing a learning curve, he's actually learning his trade AT Liverpool. And constant scrutiny is justified in that context.

 

If ASDA needed a new CEO and they appointed someone who'd turned Tesco around in three years, they'd probably feel comfortable giving him that three years. If they promoted someone internally who'd never held the reins at a big organisation before he'd have development reviews and scrutiny coming out the arse.

 

 

Cracking post.

[Baz1969]

I'm happy with progress to date under Rodgers. We are beginning to look settled and showing consistency (allbeit not enough wins) which is something that has been missing for years. We are starting look like a far more solid and competitive team now then we were last season and I'd expect us to be even better towards the end of the season - continual improvement. Style of football is lovely at times too. I think (hope!) that next season will be our best and most consistent for a long while.

[FrenchEyeGlass]

When you put it like that - just 26 weeks - it's really striking how little time he has had here. He has purchased four first team players (Borini, Allen, Sturridge, Coutinho) in his stint. That's a fair number of players to change a team's fortune, but if you look at how many starts those players have had, it becomes even more illustrative of why there hasn't been a massive upsurge in form from the previous manager.

 

I agree with most of what you're saying but why are you discounting Assaidi as a first team signing? Indeed, what is a first team signing?

 

He was our oldest signing, at 24. He was a first team starter at Herenveen. He scored a hatful of goals and provided many assists and was generally positively reviewed. Why has he disappeared? I can't remember him playing one Premier League game which is just bloody odd, especially considering that he's put in out best wide performances to date under Rodgers.

 

Money is money and its ridiculous how often it is wasted at our club. This, coupled with Sahin's loan (which we're lead to believe was subject to a loan fee) all adds up and I don't get how we can afford to freeze players out so quickly.

[zigackly]

It does concern me a bit that Assaidi has been so little used in a season where we've depended on Sterling so much, but I console myself by thinking that perhaps he's not very good. He was worth a punt though, and it's doubtful we'll make much of a loss on him.

[moof]

I don't agree with the notion of just giving Rodgers time regardless of what he does or doesn't do over the next few months.

 

Where Rodgers differs from previous managers, and many managers of big clubs, is that he's thoroughly unproven. Bear in mind his only achievment in football is avoiding relegation.

 

If a manager has achieved something in the game then you've more reason to sit back and give them that space, if it's taken them three years on average to build a capable side then a year or two years in and you're still average, by all means, give him that other year. But if he hasn't then why would you? Bearing in mind that the longer you wait without success and the longer you're shit, the more difficult the damage is to fix when you do appoint someone else.

 

Rodgers is undergoing a learning curve, he's actually learning his trade AT Liverpool. And constant scrutiny is justified in that context.

 

If ASDA needed a new CEO and they appointed someone who'd turned Tesco around in three years, they'd probably feel comfortable giving him that three years. If they promoted someone internally who'd never held the reins at a big organisation before he'd have development reviews and scrutiny coming out the arse.

 

In spectacular fashion, let's not forget. They were favourites to get relegated from the championship the year they came up.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I agree with most of what you're saying but why are you discounting Assaidi as a first team signing? Indeed, what is a first team signing?

 

Not his signing, apparently. I'm talking about major signings. Still, the point remains the same, he has barely started.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

In spectacular fashion, let's not forget. They were favourites to get relegated from the championship the year they came up.

 

To be fair, getting promoted was one hell of an achievement for a side that was made up mainly of lower-league players, let alone staying up, in the top half of the table, beating some of the best sides in the league.

[zigackly]

Not his signing, apparently.

 

I think that's a bit of a red herring. He almost certainly didn't say no, and anyway it's incumbent on him to work with players he didn't purchase. He's done ok with Suarez for instance.

 

I suspect that Assaidi, although a decent punt on paper, is simply not up to standard.

[FrenchEyeGlass]

Not his signing, apparently. I'm talking about major signings. Still, the point remains the same, he has barely started.

 

Oh yeah, I think I heard that too. The scouting team signed him or something? How odd is that. Oh I agreed with your general point. I was just wondering why you left him out.

[FrenchEyeGlass]

I think that's a bit of a red herring. He almost certainly didn't say no, and anyway it's incumbent on him to work with players he didn't purchase. He's done ok with Suarez for instance.

 

I suspect that Assaidi, although a decent punt on paper, is simply not up to standard.

 

Its certainly an odd circumstance if it is true.

 

I find it hard to believe that he is of a lesser standard than a tired and ineffective Raheem. Or a cowardly Downing for that matter. He definitely doesn't like him though, for some reason.

 

He'll be gone in the summer I think.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Oh yeah, I think I heard that too. The scouting team signed him or something? How odd is that. Oh I agreed with your general point. I was just wondering why you left him out.

 

I don't really know what the deal is with him. To be honest, I just forgot he existed.

[mattyq]

Always a massive gamble appointing someone like BR and, for me, the jury is still well and truly out.

I still can;t get my head around the whole striker/Andy Carroll thing in the summer which effectively ruined our season before it had begun.

I'd give him another full season, though

[Code]

In spectacular fashion, let's not forget. They were favourites to get relegated from the championship the year they came up.

 

Are you drunk? Why on earth should they even be in contention of being relegated?

 

Swansea finished 8th in the Championship in 08/09, they finished 7th in 09/10 and 3rd in 10/11 when the relegated teams Hull, Burnley and Portsmouth failed miserably finishing 8, 11 and 16.

 

So basically Swansea climbed one spot in the table when they got promoted through the play offs.