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If a country has a pretty poor youth set, like England with about 5000 qualified coaches, then the players from that country are, overall, likely to be of a poorer standard in comparison to countries with good youth set ups and far more qualified coaches, like Spain and Germany.

 

Then you have ridiculous rules at underage level in England where a keeper has to be a certain size to be considered, you can see why England produce less good keepers.

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Guest Numero Veinticinco

 

Spain and Germany produce better keepers than England.

 

Over what period? England has a great tradition of goal keepers.

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5 world class Spanish keepers? Ok. I don't want to beat around the bush, so I'll be dead clear: Admitting you don't know much about Butland - I'm guessing you know little more than his name - but saying you don't wanted him because he's English is stupid. Not misguided, foolish, or anything else. It's stupidity.

 

Having seen what you post in other area, I know you're better and more thoughtful than this.

 

You're right,I havent seen Butland but having seen what we've paid for the likes of Carson and Kirkland,two rising England stars,in the past I reckon going abroad would get us both a better keeper and would cost us less.

 

The only good GK who is English is Hart and we arent going to get him so we need to look abroad.

If Pepe goes of course.

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Guest ShoePiss
Norwegian keepers are playing in the Norwegian league, English keepers are playing nowhere.

 

You really are a bit thick are you not?

 

 

There's loads of English keepers playing in the English leagues, most better than the Norwegians seeing as the Norwegian league is about conference level. I'm sure you'd agree seeing as you completely ignore your own league.

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There's loads of English keepers playing in the English leagues, most better than the Norwegians seeing as the Norwegian league is about conference level. I'm sure you'd agree seeing as you completely ignore your own league.

 

I ignore the Championship as well.

 

The Norwegian league is shite, but so is the Championship and downwards in the English league system, players who were regulars in the 2nd division in England played in the second didvision in Norway when they came back.

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You're right,I havent seen Butland but having seen what we've paid for the likes of Carson and Kirkland,two rising England stars,in the past I reckon going abroad would get us both a better keeper and would cost us less.

 

The only good GK who is English is Hart and we arent going to get him so we need to look abroad.

If Pepe goes of course.

 

Kirkland and Carson have absolutely no bearing on Butland's ability or chances of becoming a world class keeper. It's like saying Buffon must be shit because Taibi was from the same country as him.

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You're right,I havent seen Butland but having seen what we've paid for the likes of Carson and Kirkland,two rising England stars,in the past I reckon going abroad would get us both a better keeper and would cost us less.

 

There is no evidence that foreign goalkeepers are better than English ones. Indeed over the tears we have produced a disproportionately high number of great goalkeepers.

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There is no evidence that foreign goalkeepers are better than English ones. Indeed over the tears we have produced a disproportionately high number of great goalkeepers.

 

Have the last 20 years been wiped from our memories? There used to be a high number of English top class goalies from the likes of Banks,Shilton,Clemence and their top quality understudies but that has disappeared years ago. Apart from Hart I cannot name a top class English Gk around.

 

I thought David Seaman was Englands last but he was still prone to errors and was relied on too heavily in later years. I rated Nigel Martyn at club level but he couldn't make the step up. James and Green are also way below standard.

 

I am currently happy with Pepe but he's third or fourth best in Spain at present and Germany can field at least three decent international keepers too.

 

As Jairzinho hinted at,the lack of quality goalkeeping coaches doesn't help either.

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Have the last 20 years been wiped from our memories?.

I agree that post= Seaman, and with the exception of Hart, English goalkeepers of quality have been noreable by ther absence.

 

My point was simply that foreig goalkeepers are not intrinsically better than English ones.

 

I also agree that Germany is producing some very good keepers now. At juniorlevel goalkeping coaching is undoubtedly critical, at pepe's level I believe that the psychological domension that te goalkeeping coach offers is all rather than the technical side.

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How many English keepers are first choices at a top league club?

 

Compare that to Italien, Spanish, French, German, Portuguese, Dutch etc and you have the answer.

 

English keepers are mostly shite, thats why most of them play in the second rate league in their own country and they neve go abroad.

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I reckon England have 1 world class GKs compared to Spain's 4 or 5 minimum and Germany's 4 or 5. This puts English GKs on a par with some of the worlds lesser nations in terms of GKs.

I don't know a lot about Butland but I don't want ANY English GKs at the club as I think there are far better and more overseas GKs who would also be better value for money.

I actually don't want to get rid of Reina and reckon we should only be looking for a back up GK and nothing more.

You are also forgetting that the Premier league pays some of the biggest wages and is supposed to be the best in the world.

I simply reckon that this doesn't guarantee the best players and particularly the best English players to compete for their country.

 

I'm a bit ignorant on keepers in other leagues to be honest, but who are Spains 4 or 5 world class keepers? I can only think of Casillas, Valdes and Reina.

 

Who are Germany's as I can only think of Neuer?

 

How many do France and Italy have?

 

To be honest, I think we can say the other keepers are simply good, and not world class. Almost by definition, number of world class keepers must surely number less than 10.

 

And then, if you think about the numbers, out of the thousands of prefessional keepers there are around the world, Spain have only a couple more world class keepers than England means that it is not statisticcally significant, it could be down to them having a system that makes better keepers, or it could be down to pure luck.

 

Finally, pointing at the number of English keepers in the Premier League does not prove anything. The Prem is by far the richest league in the world, and the shared distribution of TV rights means that the lowest clubs revenues will be higher than the most other teams around Europe, for example there are 11 English teams in the Delloites money list top 30, and this means that English clubs are able to go out and get some of the best in the world. Looking at Code's list, the fact that you can see that there are keepers from all over the place goes to proive that. I don't know the answer, but apart from Spain, Italy and Germany, would I be right in saying that pretty much every nation that is represented, we have that countries number 1? Perhaps not when you include the back up keepers, but from the first choice ones, I'm almost certain. That simply means that it is very difficult for young English keepers to get a chance as they are generally up against an International keeper.

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There is no evidence that foreign goalkeepers are better than English ones. Indeed over the tears we have produced a disproportionately high number of great goalkeepers.

 

Gordon Banks is completely irrelevant to what we are now producing.

 

The last five to ten years we've produced absolute shite, whilst the likes of Germany and especially Spain have produced lots of high quality keepers.

 

Very few Premier League sides have an English number 1, and no decent sides on the continent do.

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Since Shilton and i suppose Seaman and Martyn to a certain extent England have not produced top class keepers. And the overall level has been worse than in Spain, Italy, Germany, Holland and France. Don't think anyone could disagree with that.

 

That may be the case, but is it a coincidence that it coincides with the start of the Premier League and the massive increase in TV money? If young keepers are not given a chance at the top, it becomes very difficult to reach the top. And just because a keeper is English, it does not follow that they won't be a good keeper.

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Guest San Don
Kirkland and Carson have absolutely no bearing on Butland's ability or chances of becoming a world class keeper. It's like saying Buffon must be shit because Taibi was from the same country as him.

 

Spot on. Some of the comments on here border on the ludicrous.

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Guest San Don
Gordon Banks is completely irrelevant to what we are now producing.

 

The last five to ten years we've produced absolute shite, whilst the likes of Germany and especially Spain have produced lots of high quality keepers.

 

Very few Premier League sides have an English number 1, and no decent sides on the continent do.

 

That's very debateable.

 

Of the 'top' german keepers you allude to, how many have played in the hurly burly of the PL? Lehmann at arsenal? Hardly a high quality keeper and he had to wait until his very last years to oust Kahn as Germany's number 1.

 

Of the so called top spanish keepers, how many have played in the PL? Reina and if you believe it, De Gea. Anyone else? De Gea has never looked impressive for the mancs and is rumoured to be a target for Madrid. Reina impressed but even nw, has slipped behind Valdes in Spain's top 3.

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Do you have to play in the Premier League to be any good?

 

I'd rather play in La Liga if I was a professional footballer.

 

If Pepe was sold tomorrow I'd rather any of this lot -Valdes, Asenjo, Casillas, Adrian, Moya, Palop, Lopez, Iraizoz, De Gea were our new keeper ahead of every single English keeper other than Joe Hart.

 

I don't watch anywhere near as much German football as I do Spanish, but off the top of my head I'd have all of this lot (other than Hart) before any English keeper - Neuer, Wiese, Adler, Stegen, Zieler.

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Guest Numero Veinticinco
Has anyone actually said this?

 

Well, Vlad said he'd not want him or even look at him based on the fact he's English. So yeah, pretty much.

 

I'm going to throw out what I think about this: each player is an individual and should be treated as such. It's their attributes which dictate whether or not we buy them, not where they were born.

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I've not seen Mata play, but having seen how Nunez was, I'm just not interested.

 

Is anyone actually making this argument?

 

That it is impossible for an English keeper to be good. Or are people simply saying we produce less high quality keepers than other countries.

 

People have every right to be sceptical if we are linked to an English goalkeeper. Maybe Butland will end up being world class, but I think scepticism is healthy considering the state of goalkeeping coaching in this country, and a distinct lack of other quality English keepers. Butland is only 19 afterall.

Edited by Jairzinho
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How are all of those world class Norwegian players doing, again?

 

Norwegian keepers are playing in the Norwegian league, English keepers are playing nowhere.

 

You really are a bit thick are you not?

 

That's not what he asked is it. Who's thick now, Roger Irrelevant.

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