Centre Midfield - What is the right balance?

[HJohal]

The balance is still not right in centre midfield especially against fast-counter attacking teams who have defended deep, no surprise the teams which have beaten us this season have these attributes, i.e WBA, Arsenal, Man Utd, Spurs and Villa today.

 

With the full backs encouraged to push forwards, more so today with both Downing and Johnson deployed, it does leave a lot of holes for Lucas to plug almost impossible against pace.

 

Yet to see Lucas-Sahin or Lucas-Henderson deployed this season both of whom could probably offer more defensive steel than the Lucas-Allen combination.

[Saintslfc13]

The balance is still not right in centre midfield especially against fast-counter attacking teams who have defended deep, no surprise the teams which have beaten us this season have these attributes, i.e WBA, Arsenal, Man Utd, Spurs and Villa today.

 

With the full backs encouraged to push forwards, more so today with both Downing and Johnson deployed, it does leave a lot of holes for Lucas to plug almost impossible against pace.

 

Yet to see Lucas-Sahin or Lucas-Henderson deployed this season both of whom could probably offer more defensive steel than the Lucas-Allen combination.

 

Might as well try Lucas-Sahin at this point. Sahin thinks of himself as a deep lying playmaker so give it a shot and lets see if he's worth buying or not whilst we have the test drive.

 

We know what Henderson is at the moment and while he's young and has time to develop we don't have time to spare this season. Use him as an impact sub most of the time and a "spot starter" at best. If the choice for one of the wide-mid/wing positions is Cole, Suso, or Downing then it needs to always be Suso for me.

[Strontium]

I would play it:

 

Mascherano

Alonso-Gerrard

 

with Momo Sissoko in reserve.

 

 

 

Haha, oh wait, I've accidentally put Rafa's central midfield in by mistake.

[thompsonsnose]

Might as well try Lucas-Sahin at this point. Sahin thinks of himself as a deep lying playmaker so give it a shot and lets see if he's worth buying or not whilst we have the test drive.

 

We know what Henderson is at the moment and while he's young and has time to develop we don't have time to spare this season. Use him as an impact sub most of the time and a "spot starter" at best. If the choice for one of the wide-mid/wing positions is Cole, Suso, or Downing then it needs to always be Suso for me.

 

Sahin wimps out of tackles. He's no good for this league.

We don't have the right player to stop sides running through us.

Unless Agger is played there.

 

Please don't tell me Lucas is the guy for that.

He never was as good as people said. Injuries maybe have taken their toll anyway.

Whatever the make up of the MF it should include Suso in it.

We have many midfielders at the club and not many good ones.

Best bet would be to try and fashion Henderson in to some sort of enforcer.

So yeah, give Henderson and Suso a run there.

Gerrard Allen Lucas all struggling big time.

[Faustus]

I would play it:

 

Mascherano

Alonso-Gerrard

 

with Momo Sissoko in reserve.

 

 

 

Haha, oh wait, I've accidentally put Rafa's central midfield in by mistake.

 

What an utterly pointless post.

[Jonjo Baldy]

Lucas as DM protecting our back four and keeping the ball moving, Henderson as a box to box midfielder going forwards to create and help the attack and going back to win the ball back and plug gaps. But for CAM I really am not sure, Gerrard would naturally be there but he looks like a shadow of his former self, I would probably have Shelvey in there, especially as Hendo and Jonjo seem to have good link up.

 

But really I think having the fullbacks push up so forward and attack is a massive no no and is hurting us, this isn't spanish football where the game is slower, you get punished for having so much space open, Rodgers needs to find a balance between this tika taka nonsense with the English game. Personally Rafa's tight compact and organised defence is the best ever setup I have seen, our defence used to be the best and I would like to see something like that.

[Jairzinho]

Lucas, Suso, and one of Sahin, Henderson, or Allen, depending on the opponents.

[lamai]

Sahin wimps out of tackles. He's no good for this league.

We don't have the right player to stop sides running through us.

Unless Agger is played there.

 

Please don't tell me Lucas is the guy for that.

He never was as good as people said. Injuries maybe have taken their toll anyway.

Whatever the make up of the MF it should include Suso in it.

We have many midfielders at the club and not many good ones.

Best bet would be to try and fashion Henderson in to some sort of enforcer.

So yeah, give Henderson and Suso a run there.

Gerrard Allen Lucas all struggling big time.

 

Lucas is just back from injury ffs!!! But at the moment it is like teams are just running straight threw us.

[Saintslfc13]

Lucas is just back from injury ffs!!! But at the moment it is like teams are just running straight threw us.

 

I agree with him to a point, I do think Lucas is/was as good as MOST have said, some people have taken it over the top though but he still has plenty of time to further develop his game.

 

I also would like to see Suso play more but I think his best position is also the role we'd like to see Gerrard play.

 

I wouldn't be opposed to swapping them with Gerrard as a winger/wide-forward and Suso as the central playmaker but I don't think that's going to happen.

 

Re: Sahin - That's where he said his preferred position is. We might as well try him there whilst we have him and see if he can do the job or not otherwise we've just loaned him for the sake of it. For whatever reason it matters to professional footballers to play where they want to play, whilst we would just be happy to be on the pitch and do whatever job was asked of us most professionals don't seem to want to do that whether or not they're capable of it.

 

I don't think Agger would be very effective there and our CB pairing doesn't need to be fucked with in my opinion the main problem with our defense is the fullbacks getting caught out. They need to be more selective about attacking and more careful with their decision making when they do attack.

Edited December 16, 2012 by Saintslfc13

[KopOut]

As I've said on another thread, Lucas and Allen are two similar to start together, but the better player is Lucas, so now that he's fit, Allen can be benched. Shelvey isn't cutting it -he has no long passing game and can't shoot straight. I'd like to see more of Sahin and Suso.

The biggest problem we have, is that Johnson is being used as an attacking full back, but he is hopeless at defending and can't tackle for shit, so he's not really an attacking fullback at all, he's an imposter. He needs to start on the right midfield (or left), but, Kelly is either still not fit or is out of favour. Downing played well today for me, but he's no defender either. We're exposed because our defence is very weak. it wouldn't matter so much if we knew what it meant to 'score a goal'.

[piscinin]

Lucas is just back from injury ffs!!! But at the moment it is like teams are just running straight threw us.

 

This has been the case since Gerrard was in CM. Get him out of there. Only push 1 full back up at a time. Make lucas sit. Once we've worked out how to defend in that setup then we can fuck around w/death by football.

[KopOut]

Lucas as DM protecting our back four and keeping the ball moving, Henderson as a box to box midfielder going forwards to create and help the attack and going back to win the ball back and plug gaps. But for CAM I really am not sure, Gerrard would naturally be there but he looks like a shadow of his former self, I would probably have Shelvey in there, especially as Hendo and Jonjo seem to have good link up.

 

But really I think having the fullbacks push up so forward and attack is a massive no no and is hurting us, this isn't spanish football where the game is slower, you get punished for having so much space open, Rodgers needs to find a balance between this tika taka nonsense with the English game. Personally Rafa's tight compact and organised defence is the best ever setup I have seen, our defence used to be the best and I would like to see something like that.

 

So, so true, and what a massive problem it is. We need to get real and start preparations for phasing him out. Yeah, he's our club captain, talisman and Kop Legend, but his best years are behind him. It's sad to see, hard to take, but he's finished. Shelvey, to me, isn't stepping up and will never be anywhere close to Gerrard in ability. So the big question is, over the next 2-3 years, who is the replacement for him? It isn't Allen, unless BR is spot on, when he says we havn't seen Allen's natural game - Allen wouldn't be an attacking mid though would he? Or has BR bought Allen as Gerrard's successor, and just hasn't told anybody yet??

 

Bloody hope not.

[G Richards]

Lucas

Henderson

Suso

 

This is the best balanced midfield three we can put out right now. Lucas as the anchor, Henderson as the athlete, Suso as the artist.

 

Henderson needs to grow in authority to hang on to his place, or else Sahin and Allen are available. Suso needs to play through the middle, and I see his biggest contribution higher up the pitch, finding space and picking little passes to open things up. He's not in the class of David Silva, but maybe he might grow in that sort of direction if he gets more of a chance to show us what he can do in his best position.

[billypilgrimnz]

Tough question. We have too many players that are more suited to a withdrawn, distribution role in midfield - Lucas, Allen, Sahin, Henderson, probably even Shelvey, who has a pretty poor first touch and can't shoot consistently. That leaves Gerrard to actually be attack-minded, create and score goals. It's not enough. It doesn't help that most of our players outside the back four are midgets without much physical presence.

 

I think, at the moment, it would probably be Lucas-Gerrard-Henderson or maybe Lucas-Gerrard-Sahin. Nothing fantastic to choose from.

[billypilgrimnz]

The question should be, given our total lack of consistency in the final third, what approach should we be taking to the game to get the most out of our current resources?

 

We have no target man, so that is out. We are shit at set-pieces, so we can't pull a Stoke. We could sit back more and try to get the ball directly to the Suarez or Sterling in space, and then get the wingers/midfield to push through at speed in support. Problem is, our midfield is attack-shy and one-paced.

 

What do we do?

[RedRazor]

We have more options than a multiple choice GCSE.

 

Clearly they are all failing to reach the pass mark.

[DooooodekNo5]

Lucas

Henderson

Suso

 

This is the best balanced midfield three we can put out right now. Lucas as the anchor, Henderson as the athlete, Suso as the artist.

 

Henderson needs to grow in authority to hang on to his place, or else Sahin and Allen are available. Suso needs to play through the middle, and I see his biggest contribution higher up the pitch, finding space and picking little passes to open things up. He's not in the class of David Silva, but maybe he might grow in that sort of direction if he gets more of a chance to show us what he can do in his best position.

 

Zero goals there , we need goals from midfield , just cant afford to have a midfield 3 that scores 5 PL goals a season between them,

 

To be honest it seems whatever combinations we use theres no goals , i'ld like to see Lucas and Suso with Shelvey the furthest forward out of them , as mentioned above though Shelvey isn't cutting it which is a damn shame , had high hopes at the start of the season for Jonjo , thought he would kick on more and score goals but no.

 

Cant help but have doubts about 433 ever suiting us , it just doesn't seem right.

[KopOut]

Lucas, for me, is still the linchpin in defensive midfield; the glue between defence and attack. I see him as our future captain, and Gerrard's natural successor. Hodgson made him captain in Gerrard's absence, and he performed well. Without Lucas, it would be Reina/Agger/Skrrtel against the world because lets face it, they are the defence. There isn't anybody else. Our glorious fullbacks are too busy going for glory to actually help out at the back.

 

Allen is lazy, and needs some lessons in the art of Kuyt type covering. I can't understand what the fuck he was bought for, and I've decided that he's Rodgers 'familiar'. He goes where BR goes, so he arrived here. As and when BR departs, Allen will obviously depart with him.

 

So who is to partner Lucas and solidify midfield? I still rate Spearing, but Spearing is on loan. We have Sahin, and I think he deserves a lot more playing time; he's a promising player, and Suso is also. Even Henderson could fulfil a more central midfield role.

 

Questions questions. We actually have no idea what BR thinks of Lucas, and whether he genuinely sees him as a starter in the team, but we know one thing. Come January, Brendan Rodgers will have to sell in order to buy.

 

If we're buying, then players are leaving, and although rumours abound regarding Downing, BR seems all to keen to use him in the team currently, and even Coates is on the bench, even though he's been told he doesn't make the grade.

 

Anything could happen in the next window, and 'balance' in the team may be a season away. Not everything has been broken yet, but give 'em time, and it will be. *Whistles*

[KopOut]

Zero goals there , we need goals from midfield , just cant afford to have a midfield 3 that scores 5 PL goals a season between them,

 

To be honest it seems whatever combinations we use theres no goals , i'ld like to see Lucas and Suso with Shelvey the furthest forward out of them , as mentioned above though Shelvey isn't cutting it which is a damn shame , had high hopes at the start of the season for Jonjo , thought he would kick on more and score goals but no.

 

Cant help but have doubts about 433 ever suiting us , it just doesn't seem right.

 

I refer you to the 2008-9 season. We were challenging for the Title. Torres 17 goals. Gerrard 24 goals. Kuyt 15 goals, with everyone else getting a 'smattering'. I think Benayoun got 9...oh yeah we sold him....

 

Replace Torres with Suarez, find a striker who can surely match Kuyt's contribution - you know, the Dirk Kuyt who was overrated as a goalscorer, who got slated by many fans on this very forum...surely to God we'll buy a striker in Jan who can do that, and you'll find we actually don't need that many goalscorers in midfield. If they're doing their job properly, they'll be supplying the goalscorers up front with the ammunition to shoot.

 

Oh yeah...Stevie G got 24 goals in all competitions....and now he's fucked. Forget everything I said.

[moof]

Allen and Lucas need time to build a partnership. That's how this works. You need partnerships all over the pitch. Once Lucas and Allen learn to play together the midfield will be a lot more balanced.

[Guest LFD]

In Rodgers system?

 

 

------------Lucas------------

 

---Henderson-----Shelvey----

 

 

I'd have Gerrard in the front three.

 

But I'd rather we played 4-2-3-1.

[billypilgrimnz]

Spearing? Jesus.

[Guest LFD]

Spearing? Jesus.

 

Spearing and Lucas were a good partnership when Dallgish first arrived. The problem with Spearing came when he became a replacement for Lucas and he just couldn't do that role.

 

Think we wereright to get ridof Spearing (on loan), but he isn't asbad as people make out. I just think he is a box to box midfielder and not a holding one, like he had to be last season.

[Jairzinho]

Think I'd also prefer we went back to 4-2-3-1. You don't need to be quite as good to make it work. Which is handy, because we aren't very good.

[thompsonsnose]

Next game.

 

Jones

Wisdom Agger Skrtel Robinson

----------Lucas

Johnson-------------Enrique

----------Suso

Gerrard-------Suarez

 

Stick 433 up your arse Rodgers.