Rodgers Out

[Chairman Meow]

I've largely steered clear of the discussions on Rodgers thus far as these things always end up with the same circular arguments and everyone who doesn't like him being called knee jerk, sky generation fan or accused of having an agenda. Those who do support him will then get the inevitable superfan retort.

 

Anyhow here goes.

 

Personally I don't really have any huge faith in Rodgers, didn't have a lot to start with and haven't seen anything to change my mind so far but really want him to prove me wrong.

 

I'm struggling to see what this plan/system/ideology is so far. We pass the ball a lot, show very little creative invention, don't score goals and can't defend. When we attack the opposition seem to outnumber our attackers yet if they then counter attack they outnumber us at the other end of the pitch. I'm not sure exactly how that's possible.

 

The midfield frequently is over run whether we have more bodies in there or not and to me it seems like none of them seem sure of what is expected of them and don't work as a unit.

 

I've missed more games this year than I normally would but I'm just not seeing the good football some seem to be seeing. Possession is all well and good but if there is no end product and when you lose possession you're immediately on the back front it's meaningless.

 

I really want to see him prove me wrong but at the moment I'm just not seeing it. Bar the Norwich game and the odd twenty minute spell here and there we have been far short of what I would see as good enough.

 

I'm concerned that we continually apply the same approach when it's clearly not working, in the West Ham match I thought he genuinely had the look of someone watching the game and not knowing how to change things. Good result in the end but very fortunate, that said winning after playing badly is something we've not managed for some time. Following on from that last year with Swansea he was saying after they got beaten 2-0 by Newcastle that he couldn't understand it because they had 80% possession. Again that was mostly in there own half, on the odd occasion I've seen him talk about us after games this year he is saying the same kind of thing. That worries me as it shows a lack of will to change or an inability so see the approach isn't working.

 

Obviously to counteract that we did do something different against Chelsea and Everton so maybe he can see it.

 

I admire the fact he seem to want attacking, free flowing, passing football. However if we don't have the players to do that (and results certainly suggest we don't) then in the short term we need to play to the strengths of the players we have.

 

However as things stand I don't see what sacking him would achieve, the squad will still lack depth and quality and some of the players would still be cowards.

 

Realistically with the money City and Chelsea are spending and with that old bastard Ferguson still at the Mancs 4th is probably the best we can hope for in the next few years. If we have to try and grow our own players and be patient I can cope with that, however I want to at least think we can beat pretty much any team on our day. At the moment I actually exect us to lose pretty much every game because I have no faith in some of the players and don't have faith in the team as a unit.

 

As I said first, I really want him to prove me wrong and get us sorted out but I have some pretty major doubts of him right now.

 

He's hindered by the fact the rest of the management structure at the club seem to be largely clueless and we have fuck ups like the last window.

 

Decent signings in January and it could be a whole different story, sadly with the club being a complete shambles top to bottom at the moment I worry we won't.

 

Short version for those who can't be arsed to read all of my drivel: Not convinced, don't think it will work, hope I am wrong, still think he needs to be given time to show it one way or the other.

[TheHitman]

Like quite a few I have my doubts if Rodgers is any good but without question he will be given the full season then I'm sure the owners will assess. I know a lot of people are saying rebuilding etc but here is what Werner said in the summer.

 

"It’s all about success on the pitch I hope and expect great improvement from last year" he says it on this when interviewed by the bbc, Aug 16th 2012.

 

[YOUTUBE]bYFhgGg2A5M[/YOUTUBE]

 

Now Werner likes to spout a lot of nonsense but you do wonder what their expectations are. Did they think well he had one season with Swansea and got 11th so he will easily get us close to fourth and play relentless attacking football. I can easily see us finishing between 7th and 10th more so than between 4th and 7th.

 

They didn't waste any time sacking Kenny a double finalist in his only full season and four time league champion and numerous domestic honours. I think whilst there is a lot of sense in the right man needs time, none of us are sure how they will act are we?.

[Whelan]

That's bollocks and you know it, very few fans expected us to leap into 4th. Quite a lot expected us to be better than what we currently are with the quality of players we have available.

 

The year before that is proof that you can judge a manager before xmas. See what I did there?

 

Yes very well done - I do so enjoy fullfilling your need to be superior, well done.

 

It isn't bollocks it is my opinion, just as I think you are a patronising little shit, that is also my opinion.

[Guest davelfc]

Yes very well done - I do so enjoy fullfilling your need to be superior, well done.

 

It isn't bollocks it is my opinion, just as I think you are a patronising little shit, that is also my opinion.

 

I disagree with your opinion, like you I agree with my own opinion. Your second sentence just shows you up for what you are.

 

You can take what little snapshots of last season you want, for me we've not improved at all. That doesn't mean we won't, that doesn't mean I do not want us to.

 

Now be a good chap and leave the insults out of it, I've heard better.

[Whelan]

I disagree with your opinion, like you I agree with my own opinion. Your second sentence just shows you up for what you are.

 

You can take what little snapshots of last season you want, for me we've not improved at all. That doesn't mean we won't, that doesn't mean I do not want us to.

 

Now be a good chap and leave the insults out of it, I've heard better.

 

Fair do's Dave, I apologize for the insult it was out of order and I shouldn't have said it.

 

I think I need a break from this forum for a bit - I am not enjoying it at all at the moment, it just seems to be one long disagreement - with different names.

[Guest davelfc]

Fair do's Dave, I apologize for the insult it was out of order and I shouldn't have said it.

 

I think I need a break from this forum for a bit - I am not enjoying it at all at the moment, it just seems to be one long disagreement - with different names.

 

I think the frustration is getting to us all, no matter what we might say none of us are enjoying this and all of us are hoping it will get better.

 

We have different opinions and that's about it. I apologise if I got carried away.

[thompsonsnose]

Like quite a few I have my doubts if Rodgers is any good but without question he will be given the full season then I'm sure the owners will assess. I know a lot of people are saying rebuilding etc but here is what Werner said in the summer.

 

"It’s all about success on the pitch I hope and expect great improvement from last year" he says it on this when interviewed by the bbc, Aug 16th 2012.

 

[YOUTUBE]bYFhgGg2A5M[/YOUTUBE]

 

Now Werner likes to spout a lot of nonsense but you do wonder what their expectations are. Did they think well he had one season with Swansea and got 11th so he will easily get us close to fourth and play relentless attacking football. I can easily see us finishing between 7th and 10th more so than between 4th and 7th.

 

They didn't waste any time sacking Kenny a double finalist in his only full season and four time league champion and numerous domestic honours. I think whilst there is a lot of sense in the right man needs time, none of us are sure how they will act are we?.

 

Thats the interview i was on about the other day.

 

I dont wanna i dont wanna i dont wanna i dont wanna....

Fucking yanks and football dont mix. End of.

[Neil G]

Like quite a few I have my doubts if Rodgers is any good but without question he will be given the full season then I'm sure the owners will assess. I know a lot of people are saying rebuilding etc but here is what Werner said in the summer.

 

"It’s all about success on the pitch I hope and expect great improvement from last year" he says it on this when interviewed by the bbc, Aug 16th 2012.

 

[YOUTUBE]bYFhgGg2A5M[/YOUTUBE]

 

Now Werner likes to spout a lot of nonsense but you do wonder what their expectations are. Did they think well he had one season with Swansea and got 11th so he will easily get us close to fourth and play relentless attacking football. I can easily see us finishing between 7th and 10th more so than between 4th and 7th.

 

They didn't waste any time sacking Kenny a double finalist in his only full season and four time league champion and numerous domestic honours. I think whilst there is a lot of sense in the right man needs time, none of us are sure how they will act are we?.

 

 

I'm sure. Unless we finish the season in a relegation battle, they'll give Rodgers at least one more season.

 

Of the three managers under FSG's tenure, Rodgers is the first that they've actually wanted. If they sack him after one season after bigging him up so much, they know they'll look like complete idiots and will start to get a reputation for being serial firers. If Rodgers does worse than Kenny this season, their justification for keeping him will be that he's a long-term project and shows a vision and strategy that Kenny didn't, and that he didn't waste money like Kenny did.

 

Werner's statements mean nothing. He said in April that Kenny had FSG's full support.

[Trucker Paddy]

I just wish he'd stop talking, each week he sets different targets, the 2nd place comment bit him in the arse 24 hours later.

Of course he deserves time, but Norwich WBA and Swansea all finished behind us, all have new managers, none spent what we did or even close to it and yet we're behind them. Fail to beat Fulham Saturday and he'll have to be questioned

[KMD7]

I don't disagree, mate, but he deserves time regardless of what happened to Kenny. There shouldn't even be a question of sacking a manager halfway through his first season. Unless he turns into Hodgson, and I don't think there's much chance of that happening.

He's a young talented coach with a clear plan and vision of what he wants the team to do. He deserves patience and time to be able to deliver that vision; even if Kenny wasn't afforded the same.

 

I think this is it basically. I didn't want Kenny sacked as I believed, and still do believe that we would have been a lot better in the league this season with him in charge but I'm happy for BR to be given at least a couple of seasons to implement his ideas with proper backing. I'm not convinced by him at the moment but I'm of the opinion that it's way too early to judge him yet.

[Guest davelfc]

I just wish he'd stop talking, each week he sets different targets, the 2nd place comment bit him in the arse 24 hours later.

Of course he deserves time, but Norwich WBA and Swansea all finished behind us, all have new managers, none spent what we did or even close to it and yet we're behind them. Fail to beat Fulham Saturday and he'll have to be questioned

 

I find it best to just ignore the comments, I can't judge him on those as he's not even in the same league as the hodgson was. Yes the talk isn't helping with some fans but it's what he does.

 

Go on the premiership predictor bbc site and even with a poor xmas and losing to both of the mancs and arsenal we would still be floating mid table because the shit teams are shit teams.

[thompsonsnose]

I think this is it basically. I didn't want Kenny sacked as I believed, and still do believe that we would have been a lot better in the league this season with him in charge but I'm happy for BR to be given at least a couple of seasons to implement his ideas with proper backing. I'm not convinced by him at the moment but I'm of the opinion that it's way too early to judge him yet.

 

Why is he persisting with a failed left winger at left back when we have a real prospect in Robinson languishing on the sidelines?

Why is he persisting with Joe Cole?

Why is our bench chock full of defensive options, with no kid striker given a chance?

Why has Suso barely had a look in for a month?

When hes been running other players in to the ground?

Why is he persisting with 433 when we dont have the right personnel for that?

Just when he looks like he might be forming something from the youth around the club he goes and jams Downing in a square peg. Hes blooded Widom Suso and Sterling, i dont get why he seems to have lost faith in two of them. 1 step forward 2 steps back every week it seems.

Baffling.

Ditch your 433 fetish and play your best players in their best places.

 

--------Keeper (Doesnt matter which, both average at best).

Wisdom Agger Skrtel Robinson

---------Lucas

Johnson---------Enrique

---------Suso

Gerrard-------Suarez

 

Give that a whirl Sharkface.

[A Red]

One of the criticisms we get as Liverpool fans is about our infatuation with the past. The past has shaped us and is the reason why many contributors to this thread are fans.

 

We have a glorious past and should rejoice in it. However things have changed, our great club has began to slip and we are no longer what we were, even in the recent past. We cant appoint big name managers and buy top notch players because we dont have the money. There is no sugar daddy on the horizon. We cant afford a different manager each season.

 

All the club can do is try to build something for the long term, appoint a manager that has potential and a philosophy and we can only hope that the owners invest in him as best they can. There are going to be many setbacks, but other than the real threat of relegation, the club has to give Rodgers this and at least next season.

[Jairzinho]

Not convinced, don't think it will work, hope I am wrong, still think he needs to be given time to show it one way or the other.

 

Think a lot of us are of this opinion.

[Evil_Ways]

Knew it was going to be bad after Villa. But this is ridiculous.

I dont understand why some people dont seem to get we wont see any clear improvement until we improve our squad, and we cannot do that until january. We will not consistently win games until we have the attacking players capable of consistently producing goals.

[John McClane]

--------Keeper (Doesnt matter which, both average at best).

Wisdom Agger Skrtel Robinson

---------Lucas

Johnson---------Enrique

---------Suso

Gerrard-------Suarez

 

First of all, Reina is the GK, he is not average.

Secondly, although you list 7 defensive players, that aint bad.

 

As I said on another thread, lets do something different, surprise the opposition.

Picture Anfield, Saturday night before Christmas when fans might be down due to results from earlier. We pass and pass and pass for 20 mins then Berbatoz scores a worldy. Anyone surprised?

 

If we do something different, we might have a 2 goal lead before the opposition knows what is happening.

[Gym Beglin]

Go watch Barcelona and pay attention, thats my opinion on 433 and why we're getting it wrong.

 

Our back four is too deep for a 433 to work, it needs to be on the halfway line.

Then, you need urgency to win the ball in the opposition half, because if you stand off them then they pick a pass over the top. Barca harass the opposition so that they can't play a measured out ball like that.

Finally, you need good movement and creative passing o break through the opposition banks of defenders, a scoop ball, a quick one-two, we don't do that.

[TheHowieLama]

Would that be the Louis Van Gaal interviewed by Ayre in Spain and offered the sporting directors job but told Ayre he'd rather be the manager.

 

Or the Fabio Capello who let it be known by his agent and mouthpieces in the media that he'd be interested in the Liverpool job.

 

Those Van Gaal & Capello's, or some other ones?

 

Yeah, the guys that the fella who owns the team was not and is not going to hire as a a manager - those are the guys.

[Chip Butty]

I just wish he'd stop talking, each week he sets different targets, the 2nd place comment bit him in the arse 24 hours later.

Of course he deserves time, but Norwich WBA and Swansea all finished behind us, all have new managers, none spent what we did or even close to it and yet we're behind them. Fail to beat Fulham Saturday and he'll have to be questioned

I agree with everything bar the last bit.

 

Rome 77(so to speak) wasn't built in a day. The bloke needs time and a lot more than I think we all hoped he'd need, but he and we, are going to take time, that has become quite evident. How long that will be, will remained to be seen, but a good few years is the least he can expect and we can give.

 

Yo-Yo supporting is most definitely not what we should be doing, even if the performances are just that, Yo-Yo-ish. Time and patience is going to be required from all.

[bouncebrigade]

They didn't waste any time sacking Kenny a double finalist in his only full season and four time league champion and numerous domestic honours.

 

I strongly suspect Kenny was sacked also because of what they saw as monumental PR cock-ups and dour interviews. Agree or disagree one may but I'm pretty sure that's how they saw it. Not to mention a disastrous second half to the league season.

[thompsonsnose]

Go watch Barcelona and pay attention, thats my opinion on 433 and why we're getting it wrong.

 

Our back four is too deep for a 433 to work, it needs to be on the halfway line.

Then, you need urgency to win the ball in the opposition half, because if you stand off them then they pick a pass over the top. Barca harass the opposition so that they can't play a measured out ball like that.

Finally, you need good movement and creative passing o break through the opposition banks of defenders, a scoop ball, a quick one-two, we don't do that.

 

Need Alonso Mascherano and Gerrard at his peak for that.

Thats my point, hes fetishising this philosophy, and we're getting bummed because the players we have aren't up to it.

He obviously thought Joe Allen would be the architect in chief of this brave new world.

Fail.

[RedKnight]

The biggest problem Rodgers will have from the majority of the fan-base is the precedent that the owners set last season when they sacked Kenny for a trophy and an eighth placed finish.

[Dicko]

Yeah, the guys that the fella who owns the team was not and is not going to hire as a a manager - those are the guys.

 

You're right.

But you're inference seemed to be that we couldn't attract them rather than we wouldn't want them.

Unless I read you wrong.

Which in fairness says more about the owners than it does about the club.

[Chip Butty]

The biggest problem Rodgers will have from the majority of the fan-base is the precedent that the owners set last season when they sacked Kenny for a trophy and an eighth placed finish.

Thats not Rodgers' problem and shouldn't really be brought up to him. It would be unfair to use that as an example set by them, even though they never really gave Kenny a chance. If we do keep using that, we'll be averaging a manger every 12 months until they leave.

 

And if the fans use that, then we're in a sad state of affairs.

[Evil_Ways]

Go watch Barcelona and pay attention, thats my opinion on 433 and why we're getting it wrong.

 

Our back four is too deep for a 433 to work, it needs to be on the halfway line.

Then, you need urgency to win the ball in the opposition half, because if you stand off them then they pick a pass over the top. Barca harass the opposition so that they can't play a measured out ball like that.

Finally, you need good movement and creative passing o break through the opposition banks of defenders, a scoop ball, a quick one-two, we don't do that.

 

Most of Barcelona's players are schooled from the start in variations of 4-3-3. Their first team have used it for years, they have 5, give or take one or two, of the best players in the world and arguably the best squad in world football. To say, 'watch Barcelona' to get the blueprint of 4-3-3 is easy enough. But without the players to implement it properly it does not matter. Now some might say, change the formation and tactics, but the problem will remain the same, we wont score enough goals, as last season showed.